Cuts : Scotland : fight the UK government's proposed cuts and the cuts to Scotland

[golach]

Regardless of those who mutter about maths the FACT is that the SNP won 50% of the vote. That means that 50% of those who turned out to vote voted SNP. Goalachs 5 odd million includes all the children, .

The number of Scots eligble to vote was 4.2 million at the election, not the 5 plus million I stated earlier., the sums still dont add up.

[rob murray]

If you believe that Scotland is a country in its own right - whether or not you believe inIndependence - then you have to accept that the political leader of that Country has a duty to promote Scotland's industry and interests wherever she is invited to do so. A fundamental part of her role is exactly that.

Regardless of those who mutter about maths the FACT is that the SNP won 50% of the vote. That means that 50% of those who turned out to vote voted SNP. Goalachs 5 odd million includes all the children, all those not registered to vote and those who chose not to vote. The turnout was over 70% and all hose people knew ABSOLUTELY that the SNP continue to support an independent Scotland. They ALL understood absolutely that the SNP would continue to talk about Independence and they heard Nicola Sturgeon speak about the conditions in which another referendum would be possible. None of this was a secret, none was a surprise. No one was conned.

The comments about losing with dignity, or moving on should take a leaf out of their own book. They seem to think that because the SNP is outnumbered they should sit quietly on their hands and do as they are told. Are you kidding me? Their job as MPs is to stand up for their constituents and to challenge the government every step of the way. Maybe we have got used to the Labour Party's form of opposition where we see them vote with the government or abstain but we don't see any real difference between the two but you know, the job of Opposition parties is to challenge, question and argue the case for their own policies. Whether they win or not. Seems like that is what they are doing.

For all of us older people - politics has and continues to change. Who knows where that will lead us. I hope to an Independent Scotland eventually, but until that happens I hope it leads us to better opposition in Westminster, stronger voices than we have heard in previous years and greater political engagement.

Squidge having problems with PM account, will PM you

[rob murray]

Aye it's a bummer when no one will listen to you Rob and especially when you have all the answers to your own questions. Let them get on with it indeed. Hopefully they will manage.

Nah cant argue against ...my heads in the sand...Im looking sideway...I dont have the answers to my own questions either, far from it, and have learned a lot from more informed posters on here. Ive concluded why bother, let them crack at it, theres nothing I can do to change anything...fatalistic I know but there you go.

[BetterTogether]

Your part of a growing gang of armchair unionists who have no respect for anyone who has a different opinion to you. Just a disrespectful bunch of misfits who feel threatened by a wee lassie and a podgie middle aged man. So if we disagree and voice our democratic right we are disrespectful misfits Could that be just like you running around the internet stoking the unionist fire? The difference is Nicola Sturgeon is the leader of Scotland and her running around will be at the invitation of other world leaders because she is a well respected politician whereas no one is inviting you to do anything. You continue to impose your unionism on the org and fair play to you. It's keeping it alive.

Are we supposed to just allow the nationalist to have their say and keep quiet, I wasn't aware the org was for use by nationalist only and for nationalist views only.

Although I do wonder how you manage to label everyone who disagrees with you disrespectful misfits or armchair unionists.

I'm wondering who is lacking in respect for the others views!

If you believe that Scotland is a country in its own right - whether or not you believe inIndependence - then you have to accept that the political leader of that Country has a duty to promote Scotland's industry and interests wherever she is invited to do so. A fundamental part of her role is exactly that. Regardless of those who mutter about maths the FACT is that the SNP won 50% of the vote. That means that 50% of those who turned out to vote voted SNP. Goalachs 5 odd million includes all the children, all those not registered to vote and those who chose not to vote. The turnout was over 70% and all hose people knew ABSOLUTELY that the SNP continue to support an independent Scotland. They ALL understood absolutely that the SNP would continue to talk about Independence and they heard Nicola Sturgeon speak about the conditions in which another referendum would be possible. None of this was a secret, none was a surprise. No one was conned. The comments about losing with dignity, or moving on should take a leaf out of their own book. They seem to think that because the SNP is outnumbered they should sit quietly on their hands and do as they are told. Are you kidding me? Their job as MPs is to stand up for their constituents and to challenge the government every step of the way. Maybe we have got used to the Labour Party's form of opposition where we see them vote with the government or abstain but we don't see any real difference between the two but you know, the job of Opposition parties is to challenge, question and argue the case for their own policies. Whether they win or not. Seems like that is what they are doing. For all of us older people - politics has and continues to change. Who knows where that will lead us. I hope to an Independent Scotland eventually, but until that happens I hope it leads us to better opposition in Westminster, stronger voices than we have heard in previous years and greater political engagement.

Nice post Squidge but unfortunately it seems we the current majority aren't supposed to voice our democratic opinion but should just sit back and be good boys and girls and do as we are told.
Apparently we are just disrespectful misfits and armchair unionists. It all feels very much similar to the Irish referendum where it just happened again and again until ultimately the electorate just became worn out by the whole sorry charade.

We where told the referendum was a once in a generation, once in a lifetime opportunity. The majority of those within the criteria for voting did so and the result was a vote for remaining part of the Union. The turnout for the general election was not as high as that for the referendum the numbers who didn't vote SNP still outweigh those who did.
We the electorate where informed the general election was not about independence but no sooner are the results in, that we say the First Minister once again raising the spectre of another Referendum when she feels something has changed.

You can stamp your feet wail and moan about how unfair it is that you haven't gained independence, but the immutable fact is whilst you may well have 56 MPs in Westminster you still do not have the Majority of public support that is required to win a referendum on Independence.

We the electorate are waiting to see how the SNP implement the new powers they are to get, how well they manage the economy, the education, the health of this great nation before handing them further power. Why should any party expect support and more power before they have proven to the people of Scotland that they can deliver all that has been mentioned.

We may well be "disrespectful misfit armchair unionist" but each and everyone one of our disrespectful misfit votes and opinions are just as worthy when it comes to the ballot box as anyone else's. Until such time as the SNP are able to secure a majority of over 50% of the eligible voting public then this country will remain part of the Union regardless of how many MPs you have in Westminster and despite being told to be quiet and not air our views.

[rob murray]

Are we supposed to just allow the nationalist to have their say and keep quiet, I wasn't aware the org was for use by nationalist only and for nationalist views only.

Although I do wonder how you manage to label everyone who disagrees with you disrespectful misfits or armchair unionists.

I'm wondering who is lacking in respect for the others views!




Nice post Squidge but unfortunately it seems we the current majority aren't supposed to voice our democratic opinion but should just sit back and be good boys and girls and do as we are told.
Apparently we are just disrespectful misfits and armchair unionists. It all feels very much similar to the Irish referendum where it just happened again and again until ultimately the electorate just became worn out by the whole sorry charade.

We where told the referendum was a once in a generation, once in a lifetime opportunity. The majority of those within the criteria for voting did so and the result was a vote for remaining part of the Union. The turnout for the general election was not as high as that for the referendum the numbers who didn't vote SNP still outweigh those who did.
We the electorate where informed the general election was not about independence but no sooner are the results in, that we say the First Minister once again raising the spectre of another Referendum when she feels something has changed.

You can stamp your feet wail and moan about how unfair it is that you haven't gained independence, but the immutable fact is whilst you may well have 56 MPs in Westminster you still do not have the Majority of public support that is required to win a referendum on Independence.

We the electorate are waiting to see how the SNP implement the new powers they are to get, how well they manage the economy, the education, the health of this great nation before handing them further power. Why should any party expect support and more power before they have proven to the people of Scotland that they can deliver all that has been mentioned.

We may well be "disrespectful misfit armchair unionist" but each and everyone one of our disrespectful misfit votes and opinions are just as worthy when it comes to the ballot box as anyone else's. Until such time as the SNP are able to secure a majority of over 50% of the eligible voting public then this country will remain part of the Union regardless of how many MPs you have in Westminster and despite being told to be quiet and not air our views.

But youve got your head in the sand, your looking sideways, your negative, you have all the answers to your own questions.....I really admire your tenancity, me Im worn out dealing with "patriotic zealots, its like trying to get Moonies and Scientlogists to appreciate there are other views than theirs, and some more sensible. I d like to say to them......This is not Kansas Dorothy, and you know the earth is really round, its not flat !! This is not the place for any reasoned debate, more a platform for the continued yes campaign. It would not matter a jot if the Head of the IMF came on here and spelled out the realities of the economic situation facing Scotland as a go alone nation, nor a straight statement from the EU on the lenghty process an independant Scotland will face to gain EU membership, if we break away from UK, nor a personal statement from leading Oil producers on the continued havoc predicted / how we will never be at 2013 employment heights again, nor a statement from leading wave / tidal companies on how their future is very bleak unless real radical approaches / massive state funding is made available.......nah.....theyre all blind, heads in sand, negative and have all the answers to their own questions..havent they ?

[BetterTogether]

But youve got your head in the sand, your looking sideways, your negative, you have all the answers to your own questions.....I really admire your tenancity, me Im worn out dealing with "patriotic zealots, its like trying to get Moonies and Scientlogists to appreciate there are other views than theirs, and some more sensible. I d like to say to them......This is not Kansas Dorothy, and you know the earth is really round, its not flat !! This is not the place for any reasoned debate, more a platform for the continued yes campaign. It would not matter a jot if the Head of the IMF came on here and spelled out the realities of the economic situation facing Scotland as a go alone nation, nor a straight statement from the EU on the lenghty process an independant Scotland will face to gain EU membership, if we break away from UK, nor a personal statement from leading Oil producers on the continued havoc predicted / how we will never be at 2013 employment heights again, nor a statement from leading wave / tidal companies on how their future is very bleak unless real radical approaches / massive state funding is made available.......nah.....theyre all blind, heads in sand, negative and have all the answers to their own questions..havent they ?

Yes I must be all of those things and probably a few more no doubt.
Funny how many people from completely ideologically different perspectives can disagree with what is being espoused by followers from the Nationalists.
Meanwhile a quick trawl through the various sites on the Internet can see the same arguments with almost verbatim same dialogue as if by some miracle they have all read the same articles and are quoting them back, barely an original or dissenting comment amongst them.
Unless you count the virulent cybernats a breed all to themselves, if you're not familiar with the bile they spew out I'd recommend taking a look at the late Charles Kennedys Twitter feed.
It's sad to see even on the org there are those who seem to think that any political discussion that is of another view than theirs abhorrent, it does make me wonder what the state of this country will be if it carries on and makes me fear for democracy.

[BetterTogether]

I do wonder if today's announcement by George Osbourne regarding making it a legal requirement to keep budgets in the black will apply to Holyrood. If nothing else that would throw a huge spanner in the works for them.

[rob murray]

Yes I must be all of those things and probably a few more no doubt.
Funny how many people from completely ideologically different perspectives can disagree with what is being espoused by followers from the Nationalists.
Meanwhile a quick trawl through the various sites on the Internet can see the same arguments with almost verbatim same dialogue as if by some miracle they have all read the same articles and are quoting them back, barely an original or dissenting comment amongst them.
Unless you count the virulent cybernats a breed all to themselves, if you're not familiar with the bile they spew out I'd recommend taking a look at the late Charles Kennedys Twitter feed.
It's sad to see even on the org there are those who seem to think that any political discussion that is of another view than theirs abhorrent, it does make me wonder what the state of this country will be if it carries on and makes me fear for democracy.

Yep we are poles apart politically yet some how pose similar questions and arguements ? We must be mad / off our trolleys to dare question the accpeted wisdom....dont you get it the world is flat !

[rob murray]

FFA / Independent Scotland : To fund public services and government expenditure requires money, everyone agrees with that . So where does the money come from ? Usually a balance of borrowing, economic growth / taxation. High growth = higher tax take = more revenue, and less need to borrow or borrow with certainty that it can paid back. If the economy can't be made to grow at predicted high growth rates, if oil revenues don't bounce back, and if there are no other ways found of boosting tax revenues, ( a but thats all negatives eh of course we will achieve high growth rates, and oil will bounce back and run for ever ! ) then the continuing gap between revenue and spending in Scotland would require either tax increases or spending cuts - or it would mean more borrowing, though that is bound to have consequences for taxation and spending in future years. ( taxes rise to fund borrowing )

Actually the biggest problem in Scotland is demography. Too few people available to work ! According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) in 2012 there were 3.2 working-age people for every Scottish pensioner. By 2037 there will be just 2.6, so ageing, migration and the birth rate will all affect the available working population. The trends observed suggest that, over the next 50 years, the Scottish workforce will shrink (the rest of Britain’s will grow). The number of pensioners will of course also rise and they will need looked after, pensions, care etc supported by a shrinking work force, worst case scenario in a high tax / low growth situation, best case scenario, everything funded through the high growth achieved by a diminishing work force....now that doesnt add up does it ?

[rob murray]

Yes I must be all of those things and probably a few more no doubt.
Funny how many people from completely ideologically different perspectives can disagree with what is being espoused by followers from the Nationalists.
Meanwhile a quick trawl through the various sites on the Internet can see the same arguments with almost verbatim same dialogue as if by some miracle they have all read the same articles and are quoting them back, barely an original or dissenting comment amongst them.
Unless you count the virulent cybernats a breed all to themselves, if you're not familiar with the bile they spew out I'd recommend taking a look at the late Charles Kennedys Twitter feed.
It's sad to see even on the org there are those who seem to think that any political discussion that is of another view than theirs abhorrent, it does make me wonder what the state of this country will be if it carries on and makes me fear for democracy.

Ive checked out what you said about Charles Kennedy, and I have to say straight out, that the people responsible for those atrocities should be ashamed, but I doubt if any of them know the meaning of the word shame...I am seriously very, very appalled, and yes the gutter swipes came from SNP folk, although of course the party cannot be held to account for the actions of nutters....can they ??? Or is this the new reality in our flat earth ....anything goes ?? Apparently some nutters thought Charles speach on leaving / being voted out...ie Night of the SKean Dhu's refered to Hitlers night of the long knives...when of course what he meant was comparing the results on the night to that as associatted with Harold Mcmillans cabinent purge in th early 60's ie night of the long knives....so they are so thick they couldnt even get that "political" reference.....no the remark had to be mis interpreted and gave them the excuse for bile bile bile !!! I blame a failing education system myself of course...hey but what do I know

This is not a question its a statement

[BetterTogether]

Ive checked out what you said about Charles Kennedy, and I have to say straight out, that the people responsible for those atrocities should be ashamed, but I doubt if any of them know the meaning of the word shame...I am seriously very, very appalled, and yes the gutter swipes came from SNP folk, although of course the party cannot be held to account for the actions of nutters....can they ??? Or is this the new reality in our flat earth ....anything goes ?? Apparently some nutters thought Charles speach on leaving / being voted out...ie Night of the SKean Dhu's refered to Hitlers night of the long knives...when of course what he meant was comparing the results on the night to that as associatted with Harold Mcmillans cabinent purge in th early 60's ie night of the long knives....so they are so thick they couldnt even get that "political" reference.....no the remark had to be mis interpreted and gave them the excuse for bile bile bile !!! I blame a failing education system myself of course...hey but what do I know

It's very sad, made even worse by the fact his refuse bins where emptied outside his property, it's fair to say Charles has sufficient misery in his private life with the loss of his father and caring for his mother without the extra burden of loosing his seat and dealing with his addiction. Whilst we are on the subject let us not forget Ian Blackford the SNP representative for Skye and Lochaber who started the " where's Charlie " hashtag, many anonymous twitterati may be forgiven for not knowing the full facts but this cohort of the SNP and now voted into a position of power must of been more than fully aware of the situation facing Charles Kennedy which makes his actions all the more despicable.

[BetterTogether]

FFA / Independent Scotland : To fund public services and government expenditure requires money, everyone agrees with that . So where does the money come from ? Usually a balance of borrowing, economic growth / taxation. High growth = higher tax take = more revenue, and less need to borrow or borrow with certainty that it can paid back. If the economy can't be made to grow at predicted high growth rates, if oil revenues don't bounce back, and if there are no other ways found of boosting tax revenues, ( a but thats all negatives eh of course we will achieve high growth rates, and oil will bounce back and run for ever ! ) then the continuing gap between revenue and spending in Scotland would require either tax increases or spending cuts - or it would mean more borrowing, though that is bound to have consequences for taxation and spending in future years. ( taxes rise to fund borrowing ) Actually the biggest problem in Scotland is demography. Too few people available to work ! According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) in 2012 there were 3.2 working-age people for every Scottish pensioner. By 2037 there will be just 2.6, so ageing, migration and the birth rate will all affect the available working population. The trends observed suggest that, over the next 50 years, the Scottish workforce will shrink (the rest of Britain’s will grow). The number of pensioners will of course also rise and they will need looked after, pensions, care etc supported by a shrinking work force, worst case scenario in a high tax / low growth situation, best case scenario, everything funded through the high growth achieved by a diminishing work force....now that doesnt add up does it ?

Here's an article from the Herald Scotland that makes for interesting reading regarding the SNP and its position on FFA. Does make you wonder if they actually have a cohesive policy or it's just make it up as we go along, they seem to contradict themselves quite readily when it suits them.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...my-s.128343860

You might also find a piece by the Daily Express interesting that states that the desire in Scotland to leave the EU is greater in Scotland than London or other parts of the U.K

http://www.express.co.uk/scotland/58...European-Union

[rob murray]

Here's an article from the Herald Scotland that makes for interesting reading regarding the SNP and its position on FFA. Does make you wonder if they actually have a cohesive policy or it's just make it up as we go along, they seem to contradict themselves quite readily when it suits them.http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...my-s.128343860

Nah its all bluffing mabe aye maybe no....Kenny Dalglish politics : read below very real and amusing :

The debate in Scotland is pervasive, dominating both the media and many personal relationships, as even a cursory visit there will make clear. But it has a fairytale quality to it, with the pro-independence camp, like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, inviting the electorate to believe at least six impossible things before breakfast.
A persistent theme is that Scotland is so important that everyone else will simply fall in with its demands. The main political parties in the UK may insist that the Bank of England will not underwrite the Scottish banking system after independence. But this is mere bluff, Scotland is too valuable to the rest of the UK. The European Commission may say, not once but several times, that Scotland would cease to be a member of the EU and would have to re-apply to join. But they are wrong! Europe could not afford to be without Scotland. Spain and Belgium say they would veto any such application, but they simply do not know their own minds. Scotland, with its vast population of 5 million, will exercise its influence.

The fundamental problem facing an independent Scotland would be the familiar one of a small, social democrat government in a globalised system. Its freedom to act independently, to have high public spending and at the same time keep interest rates low, is very constrained. It is very tempting to wish them “oan yir merry way!” and let them find out. But that would be unfair to the many thoughtful Scots who continue to see the benefits of the Union. ( Thanks pal for acknowledging that anti independance sits with thoughtful Scots !!!!! )

Source : Paul Ormerod economist at Volterra Partners LLP, a Visiting Professor at the UCL Centre for Decision Making Uncertainty, and author of Why Most Things Fail: Evolution, Extinction and Economics

[rob murray]

It's very sad, made even worse by the fact his refuse bins where emptied outside his property, it's fair to say Charles has sufficient misery in his private life with the loss of his father and caring for his mother without the extra burden of loosing his seat and dealing with his addiction. Whilst we are on the subject let us not forget Ian Blackford the SNP representative for Skye and Lochaber who started the " where's Charlie " hashtag, many anonymous twitterati may be forgiven for not knowing the full facts but this cohort of the SNP and now voted into a position of power must of been more than fully aware of the situation facing Charles Kennedy which makes his actions all the more despicable.

Apparently the SNP have announced some sorta enquiry into this sitiuation, so that shows that the party right to the top know about it, acknowleding and confirming the issue, in my view theyve been shamed into admitting that this went on, however they also annouce that they themselves have been cyberwhacked........but Charles Kennedy was also physically confronted on Fort WIlliam high street, leaflets thrown in his face, nutters shouting abuse, bins emptied, real personal attacks not cyberwhacking, if it was me Id make sure I would have hired " personal security" so my democtratic right to be heard was protected. And that may well be what we will see in future, this is a democracy not a bully state. I mean lets face it the political winds have changed, some may say Scotland has become highly politicised with more and more people contributing to political debate and that can only be for the good...but you seriously have to balance this with " contributions" from the nut case cyber brigade. Call of the dogs cos I predict, someone at some stage is going to be hurt ( physically )

This is not a question but a factual statement

[rogermellie]

without the extra burden of loosing his seat and dealing with his addiction.

[rob murray]

It's very sad, made even worse by the fact his refuse bins where emptied outside his property, it's fair to say Charles has sufficient misery in his private life with the loss of his father and caring for his mother without the extra burden of loosing his seat and dealing with his addiction. Whilst we are on the subject let us not forget Ian Blackford the SNP representative for Skye and Lochaber who started the " where's Charlie " hashtag, many anonymous twitterati may be forgiven for not knowing the full facts but this cohort of the SNP and now voted into a position of power must of been more than fully aware of the situation facing Charles Kennedy which makes his actions all the more despicable.

Yep in 2003 the SNP voted against the Iraq war in Holyrood...but Charlie spoke out against it in the real power house...and he was vilified by the press !! You would have thought that this act alone would and should have accorded him due respect but no, a bunch of cowardly tartan brain dead thugs went for his throat !

This is not a question its a statement

[rob murray]

Charles Kennedy Iraq War speech 2003 : The words of a principled man : The nats who attacked him should read this and go and beg for redemption

Taking a principled and consistent stance over Iraq has attracted much criticism from our detractors and opponents. But they couldn’t ignore us. And the voters didn’t either. We should not prejudge the outcome of Lord Hutton’s inquiry. It’s already exposed a great, great deal – despite its tight remit.
We argued from the outset for a far broader independent inquiry. One into the entire basis upon which this country was led into that war. And events are increasingly proving us correct.The current speculation over the interim report of the Iraq Survey Group raises still more profound questions.
Two things however are clear. The full legal advice of the attorney general at the time must now be published in full. And the case for that full-scale independent inquiry becomes stronger by the day. And – incidentally – do you share with me a certain distaste at the sight now of the Conservative leadership criticising the consequences of a war for which they were the principal cheerleaders?


This is a leadership of charlatans and chancers. At the time, they asked none of the key questions. That was left to us. Whatever the eventual judgment, the political implications of Hutton are already clear. A devastating indictment of Labour in power; and of our political system itself.
Consider these words from 1997: ‘We are not the masters. The people are the masters. We are the people’s servants. Forget that and the people will soon show that what the electorate give, the electorate can take away.’ That’s what Tony Blair told his new MPs in his first speech to them after his first election victory. Good instincts. Great ideals. Today tarnished for good.
No more glad, confident morning for this shop-soiled Labour government. They seek to manage, not lead; to manipulate, not tell it as it is. I don’t actually subscribe to the view that all power corrupts. But absolute power – when secured on the back of massive parliamentary majorities, which don’t reflect the balance of political opinion in the country – can corrupt absolutely. ( 2015 SNP ? )
The soul goes out of politics. So the system itself simply has to change. I tell you this. If the British House of Commons had known then what it knows now – about the events leading up to that fateful parliamentary debate and vote on committing our forces into war in Iraq – then the outcome could and should have been fundamentally different.
But, of course, parliament did not know these things. Because the government’s instinct is to shroud itself in secrecy. To act like the office of a president instead of as a collective cabinet government held to account by the elected House of Commons. This is supposed to be a parliamentary democracy. What we’ve seen is a small clique driving us into a war, disregarding widespread public doubts. That is not acceptable.

[BetterTogether]

If such minor mistakes irk you so dreadfully I'd respectfully suggest you've already lost it. Keep smiling eh !

[BetterTogether]

Charles Kennedy Iraq War speech 2003 : The words of a principled man : The nats who attacked him should read this and go and beg for redemption Taking a principled and consistent stance over Iraq has attracted much criticism from our detractors and opponents. But they couldn’t ignore us. And the voters didn’t either. We should not prejudge the outcome of Lord Hutton’s inquiry. It’s already exposed a great, great deal – despite its tight remit.We argued from the outset for a far broader independent inquiry. One into the entire basis upon which this country was led into that war. And events are increasingly proving us correct.The current speculation over the interim report of the Iraq Survey Group raises still more profound questions.Two things however are clear. The full legal advice of the attorney general at the time must now be published in full. And the case for that full-scale independent inquiry becomes stronger by the day. And – incidentally – do you share with me a certain distaste at the sight now of the Conservative leadership criticising the consequences of a war for which they were the principal cheerleaders? This is a leadership of charlatans and chancers. At the time, they asked none of the key questions. That was left to us. Whatever the eventual judgment, the political implications of Hutton are already clear. A devastating indictment of Labour in power; and of our political system itself.Consider these words from 1997: ‘We are not the masters. The people are the masters. We are the people’s servants. Forget that and the people will soon show that what the electorate give, the electorate can take away.’ That’s what Tony Blair told his new MPs in his first speech to them after his first election victory. Good instincts. Great ideals. Today tarnished for good.No more glad, confident morning for this shop-soiled Labour government. They seek to manage, not lead; to manipulate, not tell it as it is. I don’t actually subscribe to the view that all power corrupts. But absolute power – when secured on the back of massive parliamentary majorities, which don’t reflect the balance of political opinion in the country – can corrupt absolutely. ( 2015 SNP ? ) The soul goes out of politics. So the system itself simply has to change. I tell you this. If the British House of Commons had known then what it knows now – about the events leading up to that fateful parliamentary debate and vote on committing our forces into war in Iraq – then the outcome could and should have been fundamentally different.But, of course, parliament did not know these things. Because the government’s instinct is to shroud itself in secrecy. To act like the office of a president instead of as a collective cabinet government held to account by the elected House of Commons. This is supposed to be a parliamentary democracy. What we’ve seen is a small clique driving us into a war, disregarding widespread public doubts. That is not acceptable.

Once again in substance I must agree with virtually every point so eloquently made.

I doubt the enquiry will ever fully give us the answers required one due to the maxwellisation which just lets those accused rewrite the parts which either they disagree with or incriminate them, secondly I think the UK govt has a shudder go down its spine when it considers a former PM being put in The Hague on war crimes allegations.
My personal opinion would be that if no dossier on WOMD ever existed then he must be indicted along with those of senior enough position to have been implicated.
It would go a long way to restoring some of the populations faith in politics, send out a clear signal globally that we are a country of integrity.
Finally it would serve to remind all politicians they are not above the law.


When it comes to the current situation in Holyrood I'm afraid I don't believe that having one party with so much power is a good thing.
As it is the SNP won the general election but that is more down to the collapse of the opposition parties after the referendum, any party that was associated with the NO campaign alienated themselves with every voter who ticked the YES box, and so the GE2105 was just a continuation of the struggle in their eyes.
I've no doubt when the realities of SNP policies start to bite home their support base will dwindle, we have recent historical similarities with the Lib Dems from 66 seats to a virtual wipeout.
Meanwhile democracy in Holyrood is suppressed replaced by totalitarian power.

One such frightening example would be the implementing of a state appointed named person for every child, with two of the criteria being hopes and spirituality.

Now isn't that frightening for any sane person.

[rogermellie]

If such minor mistakes irk you so dreadfully I'd respectfully suggest you've already lost it. Keep smiling eh !

and by lost, you mean loosed ... right ? oh it's so confusing, no wonder you keep spelling it wrong