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Thread: Cuts : Scotland : fight the UK government's proposed cuts and the cuts to Scotland

  1. #1

    Default Cuts : Scotland : fight the UK government's proposed cuts and the cuts to Scotland

    Seemingly, Nicola Sturgeon has urged all parties in the Scottish Parliament to come together to fight the UK government's recently proposed cuts and the cuts to Scottish budget. 2 things questionable here

    1 The austerity cuts were made by the UK government, governing majority party, so nowt to do with Holyrood, how can Holyrood "fight"...delare UDI ?
    2 She will soon have her previously much desired devolved tax powers, and will have to make real decisions a ) Accept the cuts and their effects B ) Raise the money, plug the gap, by upping taxes

    Or have I missed something here !!

  2. #2
    BetterTogether is offline Banned (Sock Puppet of previously banned user)
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    It's even harder for the First Minister and Mr Swinney to complain about a cut of £170 million when they had an underspend of £440 million, then had the mendacity to say the fiscal restraints are Westminsters fault.

    Also it's quite noticeable how the First Minsters demands for FFA have gone very quiet when faced with the reality of a £7.6 Billion black hole that would have to be funded by Scottish Tax Payers.

    There seems to be a quantum deficit of reality between the promises made by the SNP and their ability to fund those promises. I think the time is coming when the SNPs ability to scream grievance is drawing to a close, what was it George Osbourne said " time to put up or shut up "
    Last edited by BetterTogether; 05-Jun-15 at 17:14.

  3. #3

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    Or just borrow money like Westminster has being doing for years and possibly spend it more wisely than they have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsnapper View Post
    Or just borrow money like Westminster has being doing for years and possibly spend it more wisely than they have.
    Why not get Eck to hand back the monies he took the last time he left Westminster, and the wages from Hollywood he is still pocketing, our money, we pay his two wages
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

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    Quote Originally Posted by golach View Post
    Why not get Eck to hand back the monies he took the last time he left Westminster, and the wages from Hollywood he is still pocketing, our money, we pay his two wages
    But then, someone must have voted him into Westminster.

    What's he doing in Hollywood? Are they remaking "Plan Nine from Outer Space?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    Seemingly, Nicola Sturgeon has urged all parties in the Scottish Parliament to come together to fight the UK government's recently proposed cuts and the cuts to Scottish budget. 2 things questionable here 1 The austerity cuts were made by the UK government, governing majority party, so nowt to do with Holyrood, how can Holyrood "fight"...delare UDI ? 2 She will soon have her previously much desired devolved tax powers, and will have to make real decisions a ) Accept the cuts and their effects B ) Raise the money, plug the gap, by upping taxes Or have I missed something here !!
    Yes Rob you have missed something. You forgot to mention that the Scottish Electorate,voted against austerity just a few weeks ago. that means that our parliament should be doing eveything it can to protect our public services and stand against austerity measures.

    We have a Scottish Parliament and so in this "family of nations" we should expect that parliament to be a voice for Scotland so Nicola Sturgeon is asking her colleagues in Holyrood to do exactly that. Be the voice for Scotland. So many times we see people say the SNP don't speak for me, well here she is asking all these other parties who between them all DO speak for Scotland to act in the best interest of Scotland. and yet you still aren't happy.

    1. How are austerity cuts "nowt to do with Holyrood? They affect absolutely Holyrood and the devolved powers that the Scottish Government has. Holyrood can fight by standing together as we have already discussed, using its voice to push for less spending cuts and by working with the opposition in Westminster to encourage voting against austerity measures for the whole of the UK.

    You seem to suggest that they should just say oh well nothing to do with us and ignore it. That might work for Westminster Labour Party who seem to be happy to abstain on just about anything to do with austerity but surely it's not good enough for a country which has rejected so absolutely the austerity measures. Ian Murray MP also called for people to fight austerity.

    UDI is not, has not and will not ever be an option.

    2.We shall see what powers we actually get. The Scotland Bill is flawed and does not go far enough I understand although I have not read it. The powers to increase tax that we have just now are pretty much useless and designed to be so. I am awaiting the next step in devolved powers eagerly.

    Once again you seem to be saying that w should just roll over and take whatever the Tories throw at us without objection. Seems to be a theme. We have to fight these cuts. Whether we are an MP, an MSP, a councillor, a voter we need to raise our voices because there are other ways to run a country apart from these ideologically driven harsh cuts which will affect the ordinary people in our towns and cities.

    There is an Anti Austerity March in Inverness on the 28th - are you coming?

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    So effectively what you're recommending Squidge is the nation as a whole tightens its belt meanwhile Scotland can just carry on spending money on the country's credit card and totally ignore the wee problem of national debt and just leave it for the next generations to sort out.

    At least the Conservative party have accepted there is a problem with excessive debt and are tackling it although it may not be popular to some it is the more responsible line to take.
    I'm not quite sure how you reconcile complaining about massive national debt at one time then propose to just ignore it at another.
    You've also totally ignored the small issue of a £440 million underspend when the cuts proposed are only £170 million.

    Seems the Scottish Govt can hold back more than they are complaining about but it's just overlooked by those wishing to inform us how fiscally responsible the Scottish Government is.

    On a simple look at it you'd think that underspending £440 million would mean that those in Holyrood have imposed unnecessary austerity on public services in Scotland with no need to look down to Westminster.

    There seems to be some awfully muddled thinking coming out of our duly elected representatives at the moment keep a tidy some back, complain about a lesser sum being deducted then blame it all on someone else because the Scottish NHS, education, road schemes are all suffering.

    Almost sounds as good as Fifas accounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    ...just leave it for the next generations to sort out...
    What is a "Generation" anyway?

    People are being born & dying all the time, it's not like you have one generation, nobody else is born, they die & a new generation comes along to replace it.

    But going along with this very loose concept of generational differences, it looks to me that the previous generation messed up but are not prepared to pay for it, making the current generation suffer, using the next generation as an excuse to keep all the wealth they aquired to themselves.

    The current generation are just as deserving as the next generation, are they not?
    Last edited by Alrock; 06-Jun-15 at 12:57.
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post

    UDI is not, has not and will not ever be an option.
    UDI means unilateral declaration of independence. Unilateral means one-sided.

    So, some form of government of Scotland leaves the UK without asking permission, or agreeing terms.

    Don't know what you thought UDI meant, but it's always an option, anywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sids View Post
    UDI means unilateral declaration of independence. Unilateral means one-sided.

    So, some form of government of Scotland leaves the UK without asking permission, or agreeing terms.

    Don't know what you thought UDI meant, but it's always an option, anywhere.
    Well, by that definition, nuking Westminster is a option, besides, might as well do something with Trident before it gets decommisioned, otherwise it would have just been a waste of money if it never gets used.
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrock View Post
    Well, by that definition, nuking Westminster is a option, besides, might as well do something with Trident before it gets decommisioned, otherwise it would have just been a waste of money if it never gets used.
    They'd have to do it themselves. They've got the keys and the pin number.
    Last edited by sids; 06-Jun-15 at 14:54.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    So effectively what you're recommending Squidge is the nation as a whole tightens its belt meanwhile Scotland can just carry on spending money on the country's credit card and totally ignore the wee problem of national debt and just leave it for the next generations to sort out.
    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post

    ...................................by working with the opposition in Westminster to encourage voting against austerity measures for the whole of the UK.

    sigh..............................

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    sigh..............................
    Sigh .
    The rest of the country voted in a conservative majority government, that's what the public have democratically voted in .

    Even if the SNP manage to get all the opposition to vote with them they don't have sufficient power to effect the changes you suggest, unless some conservatives vote with them. Call if wishful, fanciful, delusional thinking it's not really based on reality.

    So let's just ignore the realities just carry on spending is what the Scottish government are really suggesting .

    In any sane world that's called fiscally irresponsible.

    Maybe virtually bankrupting the country is how you make life easier for the poor and those whose lives are challenged by situations beyond their control.

    But in the real world less debt means, less interest paid on loans and more money available to fund society. Maybe the Scottish Governments thinks it wise to just keep spending and spending with no regard, the reality is the more money you borrow the less money you have to help those disadvantaged.

    Maybe a crippled economy with rising unemployment is the way forward you can label that progressive if you like.

    But I'm pretty sure most people would prefer less unemployment, higher wages, less tax and a public sector that isn't bloated and wasting money but giving good services and value for money.
    Last edited by BetterTogether; 06-Jun-15 at 14:46.

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    The biggest problem The SNP has that despite changing the colour of Scotland it just does not have the numbers in Parliament or the populace within the country to make any real change.
    With the best will in the world, Ms Sturgeon's constant cries of "They must listen," is a false hope, they can govern without having to .
    It so frustrating but it's fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIZZ View Post
    The biggest problem The SNP has that despite changing the colour of Scotland it just does not have the numbers in Parliament or the populace within the country to make any real change.
    With the best will in the world, Ms Sturgeon's constant cries of "They must listen," is a false hope, they can govern without having to .
    It so frustrating but it's fact.
    It was the unionist camp that kept saying to us that Scotland is a valued and integral part of the UK, now it seems we are an irritation worthy of being ignored.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIZZ View Post
    The biggest problem The SNP has that despite changing the colour of Scotland it just does not have the numbers in Parliament or the populace within the country to make any real change.
    With the best will in the world, Ms Sturgeon's constant cries of "They must listen," is a false hope, they can govern without having to .
    It so frustrating but it's fact.
    Orkney and Shetland didn't vote SNP.

    They voted for a Lib Dem MP and MSP.

    Now they have little or no voice in both Edinburgh and London.

    Small fish in big ponds. That's democracy.

    Anybody who voted SNP for Westminster thinking a party only standing for 50 odd seats could somehow make the whole parliament listen to their demands was deluded.
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

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    did you watch the charity comedy programme on channel 4 last night ? Sean Lock told a beauty....apparently the voice of scotland will dominate parliament....all 56 of them...ahem guys grow up you need 326 to make the big noise as it is, you'll huddle in corners muttering dirty tory b's because thats all you can do....and he is unfortunately right.

    There is an Anti Austerity March in Inverness on the 28th - are you coming?[/QUOTE] No, as it wont make one jot of a difference, I will just make my usual contributions to the front line.

    Where do you stand on FFA ? The SNP has gone very quiet on this strategic issue ??
    Last edited by rob murray; 08-Jun-15 at 14:49.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIZZ View Post
    The biggest problem The SNP has that despite changing the colour of Scotland it just does not have the numbers in Parliament or the populace within the country to make any real change.
    With the best will in the world, Ms Sturgeon's constant cries of "They must listen," is a false hope, they can govern without having to .
    It so frustrating but it's fact.
    Unfortunatly your spot on, Sturgeon has got to deal with problems on her door step and off her parties own making
    Last edited by rob murray; 08-Jun-15 at 15:35.

  19. #19

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    Squidge : We have a Scottish Parliament and so in this "family of nations" we should expect that parliament to be a voice for Scotland so Nicola Sturgeon is asking her colleagues in Holyrood to do exactly that. Be the voice for Scotland. So many times we see people say the SNP don't speak for me, well here she is asking all these other parties who between them all DO speak for Scotland to act in the best interest of Scotland. and yet you still aren't happy.


    Not sure what to say about above, this "family of nations = the UK ") is governed by a Conservative majority government who openly campaigned on carrying on austerity cuts, now unfortunatly they govern, so what good is Nicola Sturgeons plea for colleagues to combine together..be the voice of Scotland...not eveyrone shares her views in Scotland over cuts.

  20. #20
    BetterTogether is offline Banned (Sock Puppet of previously banned user)
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    Alas the First Minister is over in the US of A talking to the IMF and various other organisations who she has no mandate or powers to have discussions with and appearing on a satirical comedy show.

    In the meantime John Swinney was sitting on politics today complaining how the UK government has a decision in what final taxation the Scottish Government actually implement and calling it a veto but steadfastly refusing to say what they are going to do with all the new powers and palpably blanching when asked about FFA.

    Funny how they've campaigned so hard for these new powers but won't tell the electorate how they intend to dispense them. More interestingly he also refused to say anything about what tax raising measures he'd use to cover the £177 million cut implemented by Westminster or why he won't get rid of the bedroom tax although he has the powers to do so.

    Seems the same old, same old lots of whingeing and whining about minor details but no detail in what they intend to actually do.....

    Reality is coming home for the SNP and the buck passing will soon grind to a halt.

    Much ado is made of the Labour and Libdems being wiped out in the general election but the SNP seem to fail to grasp a harsh reality that they've not actually proven anything yet and could easily end up on the scrap heap just as quickly.

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