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Thread: The good news if the SNP do get a landslide victory at the polls

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    The rest of the UK elected a tory government.
    There is no "rest of UK"
    There is the UK and that's it, WE elected a Tory government not us and them, WE!

  2. #82
    BetterTogether is offline Banned (Sock Puppet of previously banned user)
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    All the posts here tell us that they are powerless, useless, lack any sort of influence, won't ba able to DO anything and as they are not forming part of the Government I'm not sure how people think they will be able to bring in taxes and cuts. I don't think the Tories will give Scotland FFA at all. I might be wrong but I think if they did they would face a serious back bench revolt. FFA would take years to sort out because it's not like independence, where EVERYTHING moves over and it is for the newly independent country to sort out. It's bits and pieces, untangling here, untying there buy keeping this bit and that. The Independence thing has not changed since the day we started talking about this. There are no plans for a 2nd referendum, there may be hopes, desires and longings but there are no plans. It has been said over and over again, there would need to be a material change for a referendum to be held and it would only happen if we voted for it. Does this election move us further to independence? No. We might hope it does and in our heart it might feel like it does but practically, politically it absolutely does not.
    I'm not so sure Tory central thinks the way you do or considers FFA such a difficult thing to implement, the reality is it could be foisted on Scotland in two years and would then be a mighty stone around the neck of the SNP as we both know.

    Considering how the SNP have attempted to dominate the pre-election run up and are becoming a thorn in the side of UK politics nothing would be better than giving them the powers they ask then watching them struggle to keep their heads above water as debt and austerity drag them down .

    It comes under the be careful what you wish for category of life.

  3. #83
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    I rather think the SNP kept their side of the bargain, to send a large number of SNP MPs to Westminster - it was Labour who dropped the ball. But you know Better Together, you tell yourself what you want - whatever makes you feel better, and we shall see what happens with FFA. I'd be happy to see the Smith Commission recommendations implemented - with a few tweaks just now. It doesn't go far enough but it's a Start and we shall have to see what happens next really.

    Still no introduction Better Together, what's up? Don't worry someone has done it for you xxx

  4. #84
    BetterTogether is offline Banned (Sock Puppet of previously banned user)
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    Only problem with wanting tweaks with the smith Commision recommendations comes from the small niggly problem that the parties have all put their parts forward its all been agreed upon, so now Nicola Sturgeon is going to attempt to renegotiate the terms which is never easy when you aren't in a position of power.
    Regardless of how many MPs the SNP now has it does not have sufficient power to force the Conservative party to do anything it's a new game they have to play one which they aren't used to, negotiating in a minority government is one thing up here, dealing with Westminster and a majority government is quite another even surely you have to accept that they lack the force to bring much weight to any negotiations.
    The problem being we are all very aware that the only thing the SNP are really interested in is independence and for now they will have to play a waiting game, especially if all the recommendations are implemented swiftly.
    The usual arguments of grievance or bullying will not work so well if the people of Scotland see everything they've been promised delivered but the SNP still wailing and moaning like some Shakespearean character about how bad their lot is.
    I note you tactfully avoid the FFA question as I'm sure you're as much aware as anyone that should that be delivered swiftly it would be a hammer blow to the SNP that would send them reeling and probably unable to recover.
    This isn't about the people of Scotland being unable to pay their way, it's now becoming an issue of how competent the MPs they've voted in are at handling the levers of power, and so far their track record for fiscal competency isn't so good.


    Your last comment will remain unanswered as we both know the joy of using this forum is anonymity I do not attempt to publicly or privately unveil you thus you should be respectful enough to return the favour although no doubt there will be some rather amusing speculation.
    Should I desire contact you for any reason other than open debate I would of replied to your somewhat odd private message which you will note has remained unanswered.
    Respect for others privacy isn't too much to ask for I'm sure.
    Last edited by BetterTogether; 11-May-15 at 09:56.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    Still no introduction Better Together, what's up? Don't worry someone has done it for you xxx
    That's quite creepy, you were that intent on finding out the identity of Better Together, If I was him or her, I would be concerned as to what you are going to do with that information.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout View Post
    If people really think SNP will not bring in cuts and higher tax, then you're in for a shock.
    Nothing wropng with cuts per se, Depends how much & where, unlike the tories any cuts would not be aimed at the poor who can least afford it....

    Ditto with higher taxes, nothing wrong with that as long it is those who can afford it & not once again the poor who will no doubt face the wrath of any tory tax riseses whilst the rich will undoubtedly get tax cuts....
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by cptdodger View Post
    That's quite creepy, you were that intent on finding out the identity of Better Together, If I was him or her, I would be concerned as to what you are going to do with that information.

    "Do not give out personal details of people you may know to other members of the forum.

    If someone on the forum is requesting details of someone you know. You can pass on a message to that someone letting them know one of our members is looking for them. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES give someone else's details to another member without permission as there is no way to confirm the intentions of the person making the request. Anyone who is found to be doing this will be removed from our forums."

    Banning offence IMHO

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by davth View Post


    Banning offence IMHO
    Totally agree davth.

  9. #89

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    Cybernat immunity will apply no doubt

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    56 out of 59 a failure?

    Aye ...right.

    Keep on gnashing your teeth and stamping your feet. You might even want to have a full blown tantrum but it won't make any difference. It's still 56 out of 59 MPs. It's still the SNP taking the third place in Westminster. It's still an average 24% swing and its still 95% success rate for our candidates. And yet the view by the political heavyweights of the org we see here is that somehow we were all baffled, bamboozled and befuddled by a wee woman in a helicopter ( paid for by donations from members BTW) into losing our senses. What a load of nonsense

    The rest of the UK elected a tory government. Labour failed to offer a decent alternative. From what I see they have no clue how to address that. They need to get their act together or they will be toast in 2016 too. The Tories scraped their seat with a reduced percentage of the vote, although I think Ruth Davidson had a great time but they will need to show Scotland that they have some practical use if they are going to do better in 2016. The LibDems aren't even worth examining.

    If theses parties sneer and Sulk as much as is going on here they might as well give up now.

    Tomorrow (or today) we have 56 SNP MPs in Westminster and I am delighted. 40% women, doctors, nurses, teachers ordinary folk who aren't moving from uni, to special adviser to Shoe in for a safe seat. That is good for parliament. Bring it on!
    Of course 56 / 59 is a spectacular success, everybody was trashed and labour must get back on settled "electable ground" but I doubt that they will be electable in 2020 MIllaband has turned the clock back to 1983, 2016 labour as toast.... dont quite agree as Camerons majority and the way he may play FFA could well rebound on the SNP in holyrood, as Scottish spending will have to radically exmained, and cuts will be inevitable, we are going to have to take the pain...or else they will hpist it on us ! Its all speculation of course but Sturgeon publically and constantly ruled out working with Tories prefering a minority Labour government where, whether they liked it or not SNP would have leverage. Also the referendum...I can clearly recall Sturgeon stating again and again when put on the spot that a referendum will only come via the 2016 manifesto where the people can vote for one....only taking special circumstances into account, now we await tory plans for an EU referendum, ifs its an in / out vote, then STurgeon is qouted as stating that that would be grounds for a referendum. Which leads us nicely to another elephant in the room....if we vote for independance ie to stay in EU, and UK as a whole vote against, as an independant state ( new ) how long will it take for us to re gain membership as Salmons "explanation" turned out and was eposed as lies, assuming that the vote is for independance within the EU ? WIth Camerons "slim" majority, SNP leverage is very insignificant. Its interesting that todays radio news has announced that the LD's have increased membership by over 5,000, dont know what that is about, perhaps tactical voters deciding to come clean and pin colours to the mast.Events over the period to 2016 will be interesting. Sneering and sulking ....no....I cannot wish away the SNP 56 but people have to be realistic, its still 56 from over 600 MP's and Sturgeon cannot make demands, she will take what she is given, thats the truth of it. She knows this, so the constant carping / moaning in my view is her covering her butt as she knows full well you dont make demands of a majority government. And as for "legitimacy" well under current voting system first past the post the tories have ( and this sticks in my damn throoat ) 100% legitimacy as they won the majority. WIth 59 MPS' the SNP can never in a million years gain majority in Westminster they will always be, even with 59 MP's, a marginal party with very linited leverage...now if we had a hung parliament a different story...but we dont do we ?

  11. #91
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    How has Miliband turned the clock back to 1983 if he hasn't reinstated clause 4?
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by davth View Post
    Cybernat immunity will apply no doubt
    You guys are sooooo funny and so predictable. It's absolutely fine and dandy for Better Together to assert repeatedly that I should offer my real name up to all and sundry, to repeatedly demand that I say who I am, to tell me that they have met me and know exactly who I am, to suggest time and time again that somehow I have NO RIGHT to use a pseudonym.

    That is all ok, acceptable and not any sort of problem, however if I give BT the opportunity to introduce the self, then let them know that it doesn't matter after all, that is a hanging and flogging offence.

    Get away lol. You're all daft!

    As Better Together has met me several times they know absolutely that their identity is safe with me. They will know, from having met me that I would never do anything to identify them, to put them in potential danger. As they clearly know me they know that is the completely true, as do the many members that I have come to know and love and argue with over the years. I'm sure that Better Together is pleased that I feel much more secure to know that they are the same sort of sensible and straightforward individual and so, despite initially feeling a wee bit creeped out by their demands for my identity to be divulged, on future I will be able to treat those demands as the bit of teasing they clearly are. I feel much better now. Xxx
    Last edited by squidge; 11-May-15 at 14:05.

  13. #93
    BetterTogether is offline Banned (Sock Puppet of previously banned user)
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    In reply to Robs post I think a really interesting position that would make life incredibly difficult is if come the EU referendum the result shows Scotland as wishing to leave the EU along with the rest of the UK.
    If that does happen how would Nicola Sturgeon reconcile a country that has no desire to be in the EU with the claim that the referendum would be a reason to launch a new Indpendence grab.
    I think that situation would really put the cat amongst the pigeons. While the political classes seem to consider the EU some kind of wonderful institution the average man in the street doesn't see much good from it.
    Who in their right mind votes for an unaccountable institution that has failed year after year to have its accounts signed off, costs billions with little or no return.
    Heaps miles of unecessary red tape on business large and small.
    Removes a countries ability to manage its own border and immigration as it sees fit.
    Allows a court not accountable to the electorate to make decisions which over rule a countries own justice system.
    To name but a few issues.
    I'm not so sure the vote will be to remain in the EU for the benefits it does provide.

    This unified nation has always been a global trading nation I see no reason why we couldn't maintain trade relations with Europe without being a member of the EU.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    In reply to Robs post I think a really interesting position that would make life incredibly difficult is if come the EU referendum the result shows Scotland as wishing to leave the EU along with the rest of the UK.
    If that does happen how would Nicola Sturgeon reconcile a country that has no desire to be in the EU with the claim that the referendum would be a reason to launch a new Indpendence grab.
    How will that be difficult? It is pretty straight forward, the nation has spoken to stay in the EU and Scotland agreed. The SNP will only act if there is a huge disparity in the ambitions between Scotland and rUK.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrock View Post
    Nothing wropng with cuts per se, Depends how much & where, unlike the tories any cuts would not be aimed at the poor who can least afford it....

    Ditto with higher taxes, nothing wrong with that as long it is those who can afford it & not once again the poor who will no doubt face the wrath of any tory tax riseses whilst the rich will undoubtedly get tax cuts....
    So you say cuts are OK, that is very interesting as there will be always someone moaning about cuts in what ever section of public there for SNP will disappoint lot of people. To people making money earning etc, so your thoughts if you do well will punish you for getting off your ass and taking the risk. Remember there would be no work or wealth if someone did not make money and take the risk in life.
    Last edited by Scout; 11-May-15 at 16:45.

  16. #96
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    Better Together might be right, the Tories may very well say, go on have your FFA and just you see what happens . That's a bit like what the Labour Party said about Holyrood - have your parliament, it will kill demands for independence stone dead. That worked out well for them didn't it. I don't think they will, but I'm prepared to be wrong. Time will tell and today is a good day.

  17. #97
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    how much money will scrapping the house of lords save? The Parliament Act of 1911 only allows the HoL to delay the Bills 3 times over a year then they must be put into statute. Pretty ineffectual really as it is now just a well dressed talking shop. We want cuts that matter and won't put people into poverty or a box.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    How will that be difficult? It is pretty straight forward, the nation has spoken to stay in the EU and Scotland agreed. The SNP will only act if there is a huge disparity in the ambitions between Scotland and rUK.
    2017 referendum ? We dont know how that will pan out and with Osborne now handing talks with EU re UK's position dont expect any back peddling.

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    How has Miliband turned the clock back to 1983 if he hasn't reinstated clause 4?
    Because he presented a left of centre "vision" and thats what 1983 was about, but real left of centre by a long way. Sure he didnt want to re instate clause 4 but this is c21 so even a slightly pink left of centre is off message and in most of England always will be. Mandleson hit the nail on the head “The reason we lost it in 2010 we discarded New Labour, rather than revitalising it and re-energising it and making it relevant for the new times and new policy challenges that we face,”

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout View Post
    So you say cuts are OK....
    Yes, Trident & its replacement would be a good place to start.
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


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