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Thread: "A frightening prospect"

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Max Hastings in the Daily Mail says it will be a nightmare scenario that England will be ruled by Scotland in a hung parliament. Why does he think it is OK to expect the Scots to accept Scotland to be ruled by England without a moan?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Election.html
    Fair do's youve made a good point : Hastings fails to grasp that we are now all dealing with a new political landscape, like it or not, perhaps if handled correctly, the ramifications of a hung parliamant and "deal" making can pave the way for a more equitable and federalist based UK.
    Last edited by rob murray; 20-Apr-15 at 16:29.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PantsMAN View Post
    Here was me thinking she was elected as MSP for Glasgow southside in 2011, polling over 54% of the votes.
    So just the one win in her whole career !

  3. #23

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    Im in a minority as Im not a sturgeon "fan" but one win was all she needs, its like football you win 1 -0...I cant see your point

  4. #24
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    But just shows SNP hypocrisy another high paid career politician being shoe horned into a safe seat, exactly the same as those she criticises.

    Is that progressive socialism at its finest.

    Same stuff different label.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    But just shows SNP hypocrisy another high paid career politician being shoe horned into a safe seat, exactly the same as those she criticises.

    Is that progressive socialism at its finest.

    Same stuff different label.
    "Nurse, he's out of bed again!".

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    But just shows SNP hypocrisy another high paid career politician being shoe horned into a safe seat, exactly the same as those she criticises.

    Is that progressive socialism at its finest.

    Same stuff different label.
    To be fair going by the opinion polls she could stand anywhere in SCotland and get in at any level MP MSP etc. As I said Im no fan, but she has certainly grasped the UK election mettle, according to the Sunday Times she has what they describe as "authenticy", very popular with the English to...as both head line parties are still focusing on austerity / cutting etc her message of spend and reduce the deficit has gone down really well with swathes of the electorate. She is centre stage and is playing a blinder, seen as fresh, I just hope that she can contribute to the UK as a whole come the deal making time. Interestingly the SUnday Times poimted to the elcetion of 1910 which was a hung parliamant and home rule concesssions were made to Irish mp's by whoever ( cant mind ) to make up a government. History may repreat itself. The Conservatives, led by Arthur Balfour with their Liberal Unionist allies, and the Liberals, led by H. H. Asquith, could not break the deadlock produced in the January general election, with the Conservatives again winning the largest number of votes. The Liberal Party under Asquith formed a government with the support of the Irish Nationalists. ( and promise of home rule, stalled by outbreak of war 1914 )

  7. #27
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    Aye she's made her mark for sure.
    The usual spend spend spend promise the earth but deliver very little, let's look at realities they've achieved very little in 7 years apart from an increase in membership and more division in the country.

    Fiscally they are pretty incompetent certainly not to be trusted with an economy.
    Promising the earth is easy enough for anyone but delivering it is the hard part.

    All I've heard from the progressive socialists so far is they seem to think they can spend their way out of debt. If you sat them in front of a bank manager with their ideas they would be laughed out of the door.
    And still no one has actually answered how she is any different from all the leaders or what progressive socialism actually is.
    Scotland's doing so well under SNP stewardship the NHS is still a mess, the Police force are out of control, unemployment maybe we shouldn't mention that compared to the rest of the UK. Roads still pot holed. Food banks no change there so where are all the vast differences for seven years of SNP governance.

    Non that I can see just more and more unachievable promises and more politics of grievance.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PantsMAN View Post
    "Nurse, he's out of bed again!".
    Aye out of bed and running screaming from all the lunatics voluntarily signing in for the asylum.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Aye

    SNIP

    grievance.
    Answer the following.

    If what you say is true, why
    a) did the Scottish people return an SNP government, with an overall majority, at the last Holyrood Elections?
    b) does the current Westminster Election, appear to have the SNP considerably increasing their seats?

    Now I accept that you are blessed with deep political insight, and that you can see through the SNP and all their tricks, but why are all these Scottish voters so easily hoodwinked?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PantsMAN View Post
    Answer the following. If what you say is true, why a) did the Scottish people return an SNP government, with an overall majority, at the last Holyrood Elections?b) does the current Westminster Election, appear to have the SNP considerably increasing their seats?Now I accept that you are blessed with deep political insight, and that you can see through the SNP and all their tricks, but why are all these Scottish voters so easily hoodwinked?
    Answers
    A) the SNP may well have been voted in with a majority, but the labour govt was also voted in for three terms with majorities sometimes it just takes time for the public to see through all the spin and realise that all the blame games played are in reality the blame of those who are in power.
    B) The SNP are once again driving the wedge of grievance into the debate more worrying is they are making promises that if fulfilled will leave future generations paying for the fiscal incompetence.

    You can look around the world and throughout history to find all manner of totally unsuitable people who gained power through the same methods of political posturing, it's no great achievement more a matter of how long it takes those blinded by the rhetoric to see them for their true colours.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Answers
    A) SNIP
    B) SNIP
    No answers then, just the usual Unionist blatherings, with no basis in fact.

    Right up there with your nonsense above about Nicola Sturgeon never having been elected by the people.

    Wayward rantings of a blinkered political light-weight.

  12. #32
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    Can you show me evidential proof of one long term progressive socialist government anywhere in the world that has delivered the utopia they all promise at any time in history ?

    All I'm seeing is the usual left wing name calling which is par for the course and expected from people unable to maintain a reasonable political discussion without lowering themselves to personal attack.

    Oh by the way unionist, I assume you mean the 55% who didn't vote for independence this is not the referendum that was resoundingly lost by the separatists.
    Last edited by BetterTogether; 20-Apr-15 at 21:51.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by PantsMAN View Post
    Answer the following.

    If what you say is true, why
    a) did the Scottish people return an SNP government, with an overall majority, at the last Holyrood Elections?
    b) does the current Westminster Election, appear to have the SNP considerably increasing their seats?

    Now I accept that you are blessed with deep political insight, and that you can see through the SNP and all their tricks, but why are all these Scottish voters so easily hoodwinked?
    There is a degree of hood winking / gilding the lily going on with the SNP ( as there is with all parties ) , one would have thought that the $110 oil barrel prediction / basis of ongoing funding ( in part ) and subsequent collapse of oil prices would have de railed the SNP / hit their credibility, but it hasnt, why, I really dont know, they have momentum, STurgeon is more appealling than Salmond and has UK wide credibility ( outwith Tories / UKIP voters ) ?, her leftish promises are more appealling to a disillusioned electorate ? yes voters rolling their votes into a general election on basis of bigger representation at westminster and hence more clout to force a re run ? people sick of hearing basically the same messages from the big 2 ? need for change ? ...reasons are complex but come the day / day after things will be a lot clearer.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    But just shows SNP hypocrisy another high paid career politician being shoe horned into a safe seat, exactly the same as those she criticises.

    Is that progressive socialism at its finest.

    Same stuff different label.
    Same can be said of any party, shoe horning into safe seats has went on for years so whats new, they all have the same label according to your point

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    Same can be said of any party, shoe horning into safe seats has went on for years so whats new, they all have the same label according to your point
    Finally, at last you've got it.

    Despite all their claims of being so different to everyone else it turns out they are just the same.


    I've noticed no one has grasped that thorny issue of naming one successful socialist state anywhere in the world.

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    Default Right next door!

    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    I've noticed no one has grasped that thorny issue of naming one successful socialist state anywhere in the world.
    That state will be right next door to the long-term capitalist state in which there is an equitable distribution of wealth, a lack of poverty, housing adequate for the populations' need and health care available to all!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PantsMAN View Post
    That state will be right next door to the long-term capitalist state in which there is an equitable distribution of wealth, a lack of poverty, housing adequate for the populations' need and health care available to all!
    Would that be a concession to the reality no such place exists, if you happen to be referring to what may be an Independent Scotland it too would not be a socialist state unless you nationalise all industries and commerce and have the whole lot of us all driving the same cars, wearing the same clothes earning the same money and living in the same houses each owning an equal sized piece of land.

    Now I wonder why the leaders of the SNP aren't redistributing their own wealth to there own party members so they are all equals.
    That would seem the logical place to start all party members pool their wages and take out their fair share of the pot .

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Now I wonder why the leaders of the SNP aren't redistributing their own wealth to there own party members so they are all equals.
    That would seem the logical place to start all party members pool their wages and take out their fair share of the pot .
    It seems only reasonable that the SNP follow the lead of the Westminster Parliament, given that Holyrood enjoys the epithet of the 'peedie parliament'.

    It is unreasonable for the smaller place to lead the larger place is it not? Surely, Westmonster should lead by example?

    Oh wait! All Scottish Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers have already agreed to a pay freeze at 2008/09 levels. I haven't heard MPs proposing the same.

    Not only are these members of the Scottish Government redistrubuting their own wealth, they are doing it for the good of the country, rather than follow your notion that they should give it "to there (sic) own party members so they are all equals."

    Seems quite altruistic to me and reasonably socialist.

    However, I'm sure you'll come up with another hair-brained scheme, but you really are becoming tiresome.

  19. #39
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    In 2010 David Cameron and Clegg struck up a working framework for a coalition. During those talks, the tories rejected a much purer form of proportional representation for a watered down less democratic form that wasn't fit for purpose. That went to a referendum and Cameron campaigned against it and we are stuck with fptp. Those fateful decisions have come back to bite the unionists on the bum. And to be honest, if we did have proper PR then we wouldn't be in this pickle in the first place as a lot of us would still be clinging to a Britain that we think is a place of fairness and a place to be proud of..
    Last edited by Rheghead; 22-Apr-15 at 21:32.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PantsMAN View Post
    It seems only reasonable that the SNP follow the lead of the Westminster Parliament, given that Holyrood enjoys the epithet of the 'peedie parliament'. It is unreasonable for the smaller place to lead the larger place is it not? Surely, Westmonster should lead by example?Oh wait! All Scottish Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers have already agreed to a pay freeze at 2008/09 levels. I haven't heard MPs proposing the same.Not only are these members of the Scottish Government redistrubuting their own wealth, they are doing it for the good of the country, rather than follow your notion that they should give it "to there (sic) own party members so they are all equals."Seems quite altruistic to me and reasonably socialist.However, I'm sure you'll come up with another hair-brained scheme, but you really are becoming tiresome.
    You see your post may seem all fair and reasonable but the other parties aren't flying the banner of progressive socialism and making much ado about a fairer society and all the woes of society caused by inequality.

    A true political-leviathan would indeed draw only an average wage for their services to society instead we see a political minnow the first minister drawing over £100,000 and then lecturing the world about socialism now in my book that is just pure rank hypocrisy.
    It's all well and good saying they've had a pay freeze to their already bloated from the public purse salaries for a quiet remarkable track record of not actually making any real difference except for failed policy after policy.

    What really is tiresome is champagne socialists telling ordinary working class people how wonderful the world is going to be while scooping their own dollop of cream off the top and laughing all the way to the bank.

    Now it may be tiresome to you to realise that even if the SNP do get a landslide at the election there are still people out here in Scotland who do not share your particular view on politics and that's the beauty of living in a democracy we have a little thing called Freedom Of Speech just remember last time we were all supposed to jump like monkeys to one view 55% of us decided we didnt want to. Messy Orrible thing democracy isn't it !
    Last edited by BetterTogether; 22-Apr-15 at 22:39.

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