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Thread: Is Scotland really a one party state

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    BetterTogether is offline Banned (Sock Puppet of previously banned user)
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    Default Is Scotland really a one party state

    With the run up to the general election now in full force much is being made of the upsurge in SNP membership and how labour is about to be wiped out in the forthcoming election. This has me curious though is Scotland rapidly becoming a one party state. Do the people of Scotland really all hold the same views on all SNP policies. Most other countries have a wide cross section of political parties which represent the views of the whole nation. Or are the polls once again incorrect and only showing one part of the picture.

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    One party State? That sounds like a slur on Scotland. And you still wonder why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    One party State? That sounds like a slur on Scotland. And you still wonder why?
    I see no slur in the statement of the SNP win the predicted landslide victory the polls are suggesting with one claiming 87% then it would become a virtual one party state.

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    There are several parties. They don't all get the same number of votes.

    At least, that's what I think happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    I see no slur in the statement of the SNP win the predicted landslide victory the polls are suggesting with one claiming 87% then it would become a virtual one party state.
    Is a large majority of votes fundamentally wrong and undemocratic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sids View Post
    Is a large majority of votes fundamentally wrong and undemocratic?
    Not at all I just find it a bit odd that one party can be all things to all people

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    I see no slur in the statement of the SNP win the predicted landslide victory the polls are suggesting with one claiming 87% then it would become a virtual one party state.
    It is a slur. A one party state is a state where other political parties are not allowed to exist by force or they are suppressed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-party_state
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    It is a slur. A one party state is a state where other political parties are not allowed to exist by force or they are suppressed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-party_state
    I did read in the media today that Nicola Sturgeons silencing of MSPs from talking out of line from the party mantra was positively Stalinist with Kesia Dugdale commenting on it recently. Wikipedia is hardly the best source to use and that is one form agreed but I sense you're just attempting to bait again

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    I did read in the media today that Nicola Sturgeons silencing of MSPs from talking out of line from the party mantra was positively Stalinist with Kesia Dugdale commenting on it recently. Wikipedia is hardly the best source to use and that is one form agreed but I sense you're just attempting to bait again
    That happens in all political parties except the Greens. It is called a political whip.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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    I can see where you're coming from, but it's hardly the SNP's fault if the other major parties are failing to step up to the plate.
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    I blame the voters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Not at all I just find it a bit odd that one party can be all things to all people

    Dear "BetterTogether,"

    I find your (supposed) curiosity in starting this thread difficult to accept as being real.

    You know exactly why people may want to support this particular party at this time, and you know full well there is nothing "odd" about it.

    Divide and conquer will not work a second time.

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    When labour won the vast majority of seats was it classed as a one party state.

    I think you will find that most peoples impression of one party states is one where only 1 party allowed the mechanics to run & tell the electorate their policies.

    Not sure that could be said to be true here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    With the run up to the general election now in full force much is being made of the upsurge in SNP membership and how labour is about to be wiped out in the forthcoming election. This has me curious though is Scotland rapidly becoming a one party state. Do the people of Scotland really all hold the same views on all SNP policies. Most other countries have a wide cross section of political parties which represent the views of the whole nation. Or are the polls once again incorrect and only showing one part of the picture.
    No BetterTogether Scotland is not becoming a one party state. The Conservative and Unionist party still exists, the Labour party is still active, the Green party is growing too. There has indeed been an upsurge in membership of the SNP. However not everyone who may vote SNP in the General election necessarily wants Scotland to be independent. They want change; they want something different. The Tories in Scotland have a history of being arrogant and complacent regarding Scottish issues and people have long memories. Scottish Labour has an uphill battle to establish themselves as a truly Scottish party and not just a branch office. SNP is possibly seen as an opportunity to shake up the Westminster village and its sycophants.
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    I'd tend to agree with you on many points Gronnuck, but politics is changing and some of the grievances of the past are not really worthy of dragging into modern times.
    There isn't a single party that actually keeps to it manifesto promises and that needs changing. I am somewhat disconcerted by the actions of the SNP actually bringing in formal rules that stop its MPs from quoting anything but the party line, yes the party whip has often been applied in the past but even then an MP has had the option to vote as they wished.
    With the new rules that option is removed from SNP MPs and they can no longer vote through conscience without fear of recrimination from the party.
    Why would you want to vote for a party whose elected members are unable to freely speak their minds and are forced to toe the party line.
    Some of the rhetoric of the SNP over what they would do should they gain that power is worriesome, forcing the UK to abandon Trident ( contentious I'd agree ) trying to disband the house of Lord, forcing £180 billion of spending through to name but a few.
    If any of this happens it would create more division through the UK and make the SNP a toxic party within the UK who no other party would be able to deal with due to the backlash from the rest of the electorate.
    Meanwhile here in Scotland all you'd have is policies being rammed through without due diligence and no single SNP member allowed to speak out for fear of reprisal from within their own party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Banks View Post
    Dear "BetterTogether,"I find your (supposed) curiosity in starting this thread difficult to accept as being real.You know exactly why people may want to support this particular party at this time, and you know full well there is nothing "odd" about it.Divide and conquer will not work a second time.
    As this election is about a general election not a referendum my curiosity is well founded the two are quite different matters and given how woefully the SNP have managed the Scottish economy it's deep seated. I accept they buy an awful lot of votes with free prescriptions and not raising council tax but on record they seem to say one thing then fail miserably and ending up blaming everyone but themselves.

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    I think Scotland as a whole (and by that I don't mean everybody, but the majority in most places) are fed up with the traditional swing between the Conservatives (who are generally unliked in Scotland) and Labour (who are perceived to have moved away from their traditional policies).

    I also think there's a real wish to reform the system of government, whether it be the first passed the post system or, more likely, the House of Lords.

    I think a great number of people vote SNP as an alternative to the first, and a change to the second, regardless of their views on independence.
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    As this election is about a general election not a referendum my curiosity is well founded the two are quite different matters and given how woefully the SNP have managed the Scottish economy it's deep seated. I accept they buy an awful lot of votes with free prescriptions and not raising council tax but on record they seem to say one thing then fail miserably and ending up blaming everyone but themselves.
    Clearly you think that every Scottish voter who votes for the SNP fails to have the deep insight which you have.

    Why are there so many turning from Labour if the SNP are so poor?

    Why were they voted in with an overall majority at the last Scottish Parliament elections after governing with a minority government?
    Last edited by PantsMAN; 30-Mar-15 at 12:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    With the new rules that option is removed from SNP MPs and they can no longer vote through conscience without fear of recrimination from the party.
    Why would you want to vote for a party whose elected members are unable to freely speak their minds and are forced to toe the party line.
    I think you're indulging in a wee bit of michief with that statement.

    The report in the Herald said the following -
    "The new standing orders state that any MP must "accept that no member shall within or outwith the parliament publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group. The SNP declined to comment on the move but confirmed it was passed "overwhelmingly" by delegates."

    Rather different from your implication that on any vote that may occur, at no time will the SNP MPs be allowed to vote according to conscience.

    Let's not go back to Project Fear where Unionist parties tried their hardest to demonise the SNP.

    As you can see above, Lizz has already been hoodwinked into believing a load of nonsense.

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    I think people jumping ahead again like the last time, We really do not know who will vote for who on the day, like last time what people say to family and friends and what they put on the cross will be different

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