ASDA ... the argument continues ...

[Solus]

Maybe its because some people would rather put that 2p saved in every litre to better use, instead of lining the pockets of local retailers.

But why would you go buying organic beans at 2 am ?

[emb123]

I cannot understand why people are so obsessed with these big stores.
One of the benefits I think of living in Caithness is that it is different and not the same as other places in th UK.
Whats wrong with being a sleepy wee town? Why does everyone want things now or open 24hrs.
I value my quality of life far more than 2p a litre or the ability to buy organic beans at 2 in the morning. Big retail parks you can keep em.

In the grand scheme of things these shops will give us nothing we dont already have access to.

Pentlander whilst I agree that the very last thing one would want to do it create another "Little England" in the Scottish highlands, I think that for the essentials.... food and fuel at least, stronger competition and greater variety would even be gladly utilised by everyone, even those who disagree with the idea.

I'll agree that 24 hour shopping is for most people a luxury they maybe don't need, but society moves towards a more comfortable and convenient lifestyle and as those people who have switched from solid fuel to central heating have discovered, sometimes it's really nice not to have to clean out the fireplace and wait for two hours before the living room warms up. This is the much vaunted 'progress' of the 21st century and perhaps it's not all bad. The changes of a 'modern' lifestyle sure beat getting up at 4 a.m. to start plowing a field in the dark I'm sure!

You'd have to be rich or seriously bloody-minded to deliberately choose to pay through the nose for basic food supplies on idealistic grounds. Those people who always buy organic, Scottish or British at least, local, fair-trade, environment-friendly, dolphin-friendly, vegetarian etc are making lifestyle choices from their luxury of being in a state of affluence. I am sure that those people who watch where every penny is going because they have no choice in the matter will welcome the chance to spend less on basic foodstuffs to remain alive, so that they can afford to buy the odd bottle of wine, or save for a new freezer or a washing machine.

I believe it is necessary to take a broader view on such life-changing events as the opening of a major consumables suppplier, i.e. to examine it in terms of the benefits (and disadvantages naturally) to the community as a whole without restricting ones viewpoint to ones own situation.

[pentlander]

Pentlander whilst I agree that the very last thing one would want to do it create another "Little England" in the Scottish highlands, I think that for the essentials.... food and fuel at least, stronger competition and greater variety would even be gladly utilised by everyone, even those who disagree with the idea.

I'll agree that 24 hour shopping is for most people a luxury they maybe don't need, but society moves towards a more comfortable and convenient lifestyle and as those people who have switched from solid fuel to central heating have discovered, sometimes it's really nice not to have to clean out the fireplace and wait for two hours before the living room warms up. This is the much vaunted 'progress' of the 21st century and perhaps it's not all bad. The changes of a 'modern' lifestyle sure beat getting up at 4 a.m. to start plowing a field in the dark I'm sure!

You'd have to be rich or seriously bloody-minded to deliberately choose to pay through the nose for basic food supplies on idealistic grounds. Those people who always buy organic, Scottish or British at least, local, fair-trade, environment-friendly, dolphin-friendly, vegetarian etc are making lifestyle choices from their luxury of being in a state of affluence. I am sure that those people who watch where every penny is going because they have no choice in the matter will welcome the chance to spend less on basic foodstuffs to remain alive, so that they can afford to buy the odd bottle of wine, or save for a new freezer or a washing machine.

I believe it is necessary to take a broader view on such life-changing events as the opening of a major consumables suppplier, i.e. to examine it in terms of the benefits (and disadvantages naturally) to the community as a whole without restricting ones viewpoint to ones own situation.

Thats a well argued point and one I can find little to strongly disagree with.
What I would say however that this process is only the beginning of the change we will all see in our shopping habits over the next ten years.
As independant smaller retailers are forced out of business we will be forced to eat only what these big companies decide to supply us. They look for maximum return and products that just tick over will be dropped for those with greater profit margins.

This whole thing is pretty inevitable and the worst part about it is, particulary in Caithness, peolple cannot wait for it to happen.
I personally have lived and worked all over the UK and you could drop me by parachute into most high streets in Britain and I would have no idea where I was. Everywhere is getting to be the same. Samer product same prices same shops. It's boring if nothing else.
The convenience of big stores cannot be questioned and the reason they are so profitable is because they are dam good at what they do. I just hate the predictable sameness of it all and fine it hard to get myself excited as most appear to be about a supermarket.

[JimH]

The convenience of big stores cannot be questioned and the reason they are so profitable is because they are dam good at what they do. I just hate the predictable sameness of it all and fine it hard to get myself excited as most appear to be about a supermarket.[/quote]

I don't think people are excited about the Supermarkets coming to Caithness.
They are excited about the choice that has/will come with them.
This also alleviates the local stores that think nothing of fleecing the customer who has no choice but to shop with them.

Yes the marketing execs are brilliant, but that is what they are paid for, and even Supermarkets will only survive if they give value for money. WHICH THEY DO!

[The_man_from_del_monte]

I personally have lived and worked all over the UK and you could drop me by parachute into most high streets in Britain and I would have no idea where I was.

Very well said and very true.... you could be "anywhere" with each town centre looking exactly the same, even the shops are positioned in the exact same places! Supermarkets are one thing but these other huge "sheds" are another and cropping up all over the place at an alarming rate.... the "bed" shed, B&Q, footwear sheds, DIY sheds.... all types of HUGE sheds. I'd rather buy a good quality, unique, pair of shoes from a small exclusive specialist than have to walk about wearing the same uncomfortable pile em high sell em low shoes everyone else has got on but the way things are going the only choice any of us will have is to buy from one of these out of town "sheds". Far from offering "choice" these places offer same old and the streets of Britain are slowly starting to resemble communist China with everyone walking about wearing the same stuff, going home and eating the same pre-packed dinners, decorating their homes with the same cheap pre packed furniture...... argh! These places offer less choice, not more... more cheap same old rubbish maybe but certainly useless if you're looking for something a bit different / good quality.

[EDDIE]

ok folks, the time is narrowing for the public enquiry for the ASDA development at Pennyland Farm in Thurso, and your help is needed again if you want this to happen.
Miller Developments are using the Auction Mart site as a 'blocker' proposing the planning application of a supermarket site there. I don't know about anyone else but I reckon with the two schools and the train station there and also a fairly popular builders yard, any supermarket development is only going to create a lot more hazardous conditions for residents and kids.
I am going to send the below as an objection of this, please feel free to use this as a draft for yourselves if you want to object too. Pennyland has got to be the site of choice for me personally, it's a lot better location and as for the increase in traffic there, there is a lot more scope for things to be done to the roads and a pathway made than the mart site.
We have until this weekend to get letters and emails in to the office.
please address snail mail to
Mr I Ewart
Highland Council
Planning & Building Standards
Council Offices
Wick
KW1 4AB
Planning Application Reference No - 07/00038/OUTCA

and i will find out the email addy and edit it into my post here. iain.ewart@highland.gov.uk
Deadline is Friday 6th April
my letter ...

Dear Mr Ewart,
I would like you to note my objection to the Erection of a (class 1) retail store, petrol filling station, class 9 housing, parking, landscaping, servicing, access and internal roads. Thurso Auction Mart, Ormlie Road, Thurso.

This is a very busy area already with a primary school and secondary school and college within half a mile or so each way. I feel the safety of the children would be put at risk if this planning were to go ahead with the obvious increase in heavy vehicles travelling there as well as normal consumer traffic. Also there is the train station next to the site and bus depot, the road system has nowhere to expand to cope with the increase in traffic.
I hope you will consider this objection seriously and consider not approving the application.

Yours Faithfully

If its a busy road in a area with lots of children then the area should be 20mph zone and you should be welcoming asda with open arms rather than putting the spanner in the works asda will create jobs and most importantly create more competition in the area something thurso desperately needs instead having to put up with coop and somerfield

[gollach]

This also alleviates the local stores that think nothing of fleecing the customer who has no choice but to shop with them.

When the local stores close, the supermarkets will also think nothing of fleecing the customer who has no choice but to shop with them.

[Bobinovich]

I would imagine the Internet has a lot to do with keeping prices down.

Just out of interest, and by means of a comparison, does anyone know if Tesco's online prices are the same as the in-store prices in Wick or is the site totally non-regional? If it's the latter then surely they wouldn't get away with raising local store prices.

[emb123]

I would imagine the Internet has a lot to do with keeping prices down.

Just out of interest, and by means of a comparison, does anyone know if Tesco's online prices are the same as the in-store prices in Wick or is the site totally non-regional? If it's the latter then surely they wouldn't get away with raising local store prices.

They were recently accused of raising prices in areas where they had near total market dominance... an allegation which they stenuously denied. My observation is that while the allegation certainly used to be true (I have gone to two different Tescos on the same day in two entirely different positions relative to regional marketplace dominance and seen identical items at different prices) it's possible that they have stopped doing that sort of thing.... recently.

I've not noticed the price of internet delivered Tesco products being different from that in-store.

I get the impression that there are various powers that be (and journalists) keeping an eye on Tesco. If they abide by their recent denial then their prices should be the same across the UK.

They do interesting things when they 'get together' with the other supermarket chains though. Around 6 months ago I watched the price of a 500g tub of low-fat Greek-style Natural yoghurt rise from 45p to 78p in Tesco - overnight, and within about 3 days Sainsburys and Asda matched their price. There's obviously no such thing as a cartel!

[bagpuss]

Oh dearie me- will it never stop?
Up north on a visit from London- where I shop in Waitrose and Sainsbury- when I have to.
I was talking with a good friend who tells me that the Asda at the mart will be most appreciated by the pupils of THS, who will no doubt try to smuggle in lots of unhealthy grub from there in defiance of the school's healthy eating policy. He also tells me that the Wick Tesco is most frequented by.....wait for it- Thurso residents!
Another friend from Wick wishes they'd build a Macdonalds/pizza hut/Burger king complex outside the town- so decent people who like a walk of an evening wouldn't have to trip over oiks camped out on the pavement in Bridge street throwing chips to seagulls in order to get them killed.
No doubt everyone will be happy when both towns have an Asda, Tesco,Aldi, Sainsbury and there won't be enough money to make it worth their while staying open.
Cheerio

[JimH]

When the local stores close, the supermarkets will also think nothing of fleecing the customer who has no choice but to shop with them.

I don't think so, no more than I believe Tescos is the reason for Millers pet shop or other Thurso stores are closing. Being used as an excuse, but not the reason.
AS I have said before; The Stores that look after their customers, and are prepared to offer Service and Civility will survive against any competition that is fair. The Supermarkets also need competition. Look at the mess that Somerfields and the Coop have made in Caithness. They need a good Kick up the backside, and they did not cause local stores to close, but I'll bet you had the same ruckas when they said they were coming here.

[bagpuss]

We live in the 21st century- a time when all towns- large or small largely look the same- and have the same shops, selling the same goods and unless you live in really fashionable quarters which want specialist stores like FreshnWild in London's Notting Hill, that boils down to cheapo supermarkets like Asda, and the not so cheap like Waitrose.

Lots of established business- that used to be the centre of lots of Scots towns like House of Fraser- and in Aberdeen E&M have closed down. Remember dear old Arnotts in Inverness anyone? Those places did have their uses- like stocking Planet/ Precis etc. Where are petite ladies going to buy their clothes? I don't see many outlets for them in Tesco/Asda. And do dressmakers who can alter things still exist?

The little guys never set out to make much cash from anyone- they just wanted a living wage for them and their families and workers. Most of the smaller businesses in Wick closed because the families didn't want to have to run a small business at a loss. I can cite at least six shops that closed due to this, and I suspect a lot more will follow.

No-one noticed the Co-op and Somerfield much because the firms had been in the town for over 50 years- as Liptons or CWS. They just took on bigger spaces.

Tesco/Asda will be welcomed no doubt but on this trip north I didn't see a huge cut in the price of petrol- 92p per litre?

There is however a bonus- the number of Thurso people who spend all their weekends in Wick, and the rest of the week complaining what a messy, horrible place it is- apart from Homebase and Tesco.

[peter macdonald]

"Tesco/Asda will be welcomed no doubt but on this trip north I didn't see a huge cut in the price of petrol- 92p per litre?"
where were comparing this price to? What you have to do in Wick is compare it with places such as Lochinver and Durness as a couple of years ago fuel was cheaper there than it was in Wick!!!
"No-one noticed the Co-op and Somerfield much because the firms had been in the town for over 50 years- as Liptons or CWS. They just took on bigger spaces"
When the Coop moved to its supermarket n Thurso Road almost all the small shops in Pulteney shut quickly afterwords Why ?? because the Coop were selling a range of basic items cheaper than the small shops could buy them them from their wholeseller I know of at least one of these shop owners whose wife used to shop in the Coop because of this
"Lots of established business- that used to be the centre of lots of Scots towns like House of Fraser- and in Aberdeen E&M have closed down. Remember dear old Arnotts in Inverness anyone? Those places did have their uses- like stocking Planet/ Precis etc. Where are petite ladies going to buy their clothes? I don't see many outlets for them in Tesco/Asda. And do dressmakers who can alter things still exist?"
No probably not but Arnotts etc were in Inverness not Caithness !! In other words folks had a 210 mile round trip to use them Hence why many people made the journey or used mail order
"We live in the 21st century- a time when all towns- large or small largely look the same- "
Well if we are honest the individuallity of Wicks centre was destroyed in the late 60s and 70s when the decision was made to knock down certain buildings and build a supermarket for Lipton/Presto now occupied by Boots In my opinion it was disgraceful piece of vandalism supported by councillors who had neither vision or taste but that is another story

[noodle]

Tesco/Asda will be welcomed no doubt but on this trip north I didn't see a huge cut in the price of petrol- 92p per litre?

I agree with Peter (message above mine) - where are you comparing this to? Tesco base their prices to compete with other fuel stations locally (as businesses do with any product/service they are selling within a community) and this is a good price.

However, if I was to compare it to fuel where my parents live (Welsh/English borders - 540 miles away!) then it is expensive.

[Rheghead]

I don't think so, no more than I believe Tescos is the reason for Millers pet shop or other Thurso stores are closing.

Is that the shop on the corner of Castlegreen road? I tried to buy a few tins of catfood there but was told they don't sell catfood.

[Bobinovich]

Millers Pet Shop is the one on Princes Street just round the corner from Castlegreen Road and across the road from the Railway Station.

The shop you're describing (corner of Castlegreen Road) sounds more like Frasers.

[bagpuss]

Tesco's fuel in Inverness is cheaper than in Wick. This is the reference.

Inverness is also known as Tesco-town. I think you might find the town centre there, including the Eastgatge suffered when the out of town retail parks were built.


My part of London (my husband's stamping ground) is mainly a Waitrose/Sainsbury area- the quality is better and the prices a tad higher- and the locals wouldn't be seen dead in Asda- which surprises me. Thurso was always rather more upmarket that Wick, so why aren't Thurso residents demanding a Waitrose/Sainsbury? I'd have thought that Wick fitted the Asda demography. Or has Thurso gone downmarket these days?

And while we are on such subjects- why does no retailer in Caithness stock maternity wear/petite clothing/ clothing for tall persons?

[mareng]

I don't think so, no more than I believe Tescos is the reason for Millers pet shop or other Thurso stores are closing. Being used as an excuse, but not the reason.
AS I have said before; The Stores that look after their customers, and are prepared to offer Service and Civility will survive against any competition that is fair. The Supermarkets also need competition. Look at the mess that Somerfields and the Coop have made in Caithness. They need a good Kick up the backside, and they did not cause local stores to close, but I'll bet you had the same ruckas when they said they were coming here.

It has been shown that no matter how keen your prices are in the high street, once people shop at the big out of town store for the rest of their requirements - they stop shopping in the town completely.

You can expect more boarded up shops in the high street which will also have a knock on effect on the tourist industry.

Pretty soon, all you'll have to advertise is:


"Come to Thurso/Wick - the most northerly Tesco/Asda/Sainsburys in the UK"

[emb123]

Pretty soon, all you'll have to advertise is:

"Come to Thurso/Wick - the most northerly Tesco/Asda/Sainsburys in the UK"

Very funny!! mind you, I don't think that tourists come to Caithness & Sutherland for the shopping as it is.

Might make for an added bonus! and in 30 years time when they don't know what to do with the Dounreay site, they could always turn it into a Calais Style Hypermarket with ferries to Norway and Iceland. (OK, I was only joking).

[Geo]

Millers Pet Shop is the one on Princes Street just round the corner from Castlegreen Road and across the road from the Railway Station.

Is that the one that had the monkey stuck in a cage in the corner of the shop? I didn't like shopping there because of that that. One of the few times I was in looking at fish to buy there were loads lying dead in the tank. I never went back.