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Thread: Howlin' Gaels

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by K dragon View Post
    its not that a lot of venues "dont" want to pay for it.

    its a case of they "cant"

    but like i said im not getting into economics and politics, its not my game nor do i really care for it.

    in the end i think its too much, and im not going for that price. my loss i guess.

    You're not into economics and politics? And you're the guy who's running The Big Gig this year? Right. Whatever.

    Anyway, when you insinuate that a lot of venues can't pay musicians to play, what venues are you referring to? Local pubs I imagine. Well, let's say a pub can't afford to pay a band, say £150 (pretty much the going rate for anywhere other than Edinburgh and Glasgow). A gesture, of any kind, to make that band feel rewarded and respected will go a long way. By that, I mean something like £50 (to cover petrol costs, van hire, gear, time off work to do gigs, all the stuff that you need to do when you're gigging) and a crate of beer - which would be a drop in the ocean to any pub worth its salt. Anything less...? Well, you'd have to be either (a) in a school band; (b) selling yourself short much to your own detriment; (c) a new band still finding its feet and learning its stagecraft; (d) doing it as a one-off (i.e. a charity event, or sitting-in with pals).

    So let's look at it from another angle. If your band has been playing a while, making a name for themselves and 'recognised' around town, then I imagine a few proud friends and relatives would come along to your gig. Great. If you've done your homework and advertised, told the radio, the papers, put out flyers and told everyone you know, then I'd assume they - along with a handful of punters in the bar (say even only ten turn up) - would amount to about 40 people minimum. Fair dos? Cool.

    Now if this is a Free Entry gig, and that those 40 people have bought four drinks (the bare minimum if spending half my adult life in bars in the Far North is anything to go by) each at £2.80 (a rough guess at the price of a pint, and it keeps the sums easier), that's approx £450 in bar sales. The band meanwhile, who have playing for 90 minutes and keeping everyone entertained, get nothing. The bouncer gets paid, the cleaners get paid, the bar staff get paid. The band whose aim it is to bring customers in should also get paid. As I said, £50 a crate of beer. Everyone will feel a bit better about themselves.



    OK. Controversy time. The door price issue (another matter entirely). Why pay £6 to see the Howlin' Gaels when Little Ronnie and the Jazz Mags are playing for a few quid less down the road? The fact of this particular matter is that the general public won't pay £3-£4 to see a band they've never heard of before. The Gaels - like them or not - have an established reputation as a quality, upbeat electric blues band. They've been on the go for years and years, fill venues, and leave beer-soaked smiles on punters' faces. It's been proven and that's why they can command a fee - and justify sticking a £6 cover charge on admission to their gig.

    Some other bands just aren't ready to charge that amount at their gigs yet. You might be young, hot and exciting your peers who come along to your shows. But unless your pulling punters in, and regularly (£££££ everyone), then venue managers and bookers will be reluctant to put you on. (Note: this doesn't mean that if they do, they shouldn't pay you anything - they should.)

    However, by playing smaller venues bands will become tighter, hone their stagecraft, and make themselves visually appealing. That means slogging round any pub you can play (see example 'C' from above). It's hard work, but it makes you a better band in the long run, and a more popular one, too. The Gaels have paid their dues.

    Overall, the point of this entire rant is this: a fairer deal for bands everywhere. You work hard to write songs and entertain, you deserve to be rewarded... something, at least.
    Last edited by The Pepsi Challenge; 26-Mar-07 at 22:22.

  2. #22

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    This is going to be a cracking night and those who turn up will not be disappointed!

  3. #23
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    dude i couldnt care less.

    and im not into economics or politics or journilism (spelling?)

    i said it was far too much and i stand by it.

    big froopin woop.

    and i ask that you dont get sarcastic with me either, im not into economics or politics, and if you hadnt noticed lately the big gig is a COMMUNITY EFFORT. other than the sound guys getting paid and venue booking its all pretty much free.

    the money that is made on the day is put BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY not the pocket. so dont compare my intrests and organising to what you read on my views about pricing and extortion.

    i like the gaels but not enough to pay six quid for entry. i havent even heard of the others and as a customer i dont feel like paying that much to hear someone i havent heard before.

    end of discussion from me.

    you wanna go back and forth thats cool with me but i dont have the time, i will keep my mouth shut next time.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by K dragon View Post
    dude i couldnt care less.

    and im not into economics or politics or journilism (spelling?)

    i said it was far too much and i stand by it.

    big froopin woop.

    and i ask that you dont get sarcastic with me either, im not into economics or politics, and if you hadnt noticed lately the big gig is a COMMUNITY EFFORT. other than the sound guys getting paid and venue booking its all pretty much free.

    the money that is made on the day is put BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY not the pocket. so dont compare my intrests and organising to what you read on my views about pricing and extortion.

    i like the gaels but not enough to pay six quid for entry. i havent even heard of the others and as a customer i dont feel like paying that much to hear someone i havent heard before.

    end of discussion from me.

    you wanna go back and forth thats cool with me but i dont have the time, i will keep my mouth shut next time.

    You're right, it's not worth it. Your first sentence pretty much sums up your attitude.

  5. #25
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    and i would like to comment on your attitude but i may lose my job

  6. #26
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    And this is the man who is going to put up with nineteen band's worth of rampant ego. Pepsi says it all.
    BTW, Pepsi, your girlfriend and her band have just played some fine tunes with me and Isaac at the Lighthouse. Some scratcher.
    In the image of God? You must be joking!

  7. #27

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    Many, many thanks for showing Shona and the Sirens such warm hospitality, Gleber2. I think a few new friends have been made. Hopefully their first official performance is a gig at Keepers' Cottages.
    See you in a couple of weeks! Mr Mowbray says a big HI, as well.

  8. #28

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    ok I have read everyones threads and would firstly like to thank everyone who has stuck up for us, and I understand the point that K Dragon is trying to make however let me explain the reason we are charging £6 is because the Gaels is hiring the venue, there will be entertainment provided by two established bands both of which will have expenses, time of work,wages for the doorperson, travel, advertising etc. both bands will have to load a ton of gear into a van cart it to the venue and set it up on Sat afternoon when most of you will be enjoying a pint downtown, sitting down to a nice lunch or perhaps are at work (for which you obviously get paid).
    We will then spend the next two hours sound checkin to get the best quality sound we can for the audience. After which Dead Grateful will perform two forty five minute sets followed by the Gaels and we will perform roughly two one hour sets...how much do we end up getting paid? Well let see, suppose 75 people turn up 75 X £6 = £450.00 which would be £225.00 per band our expenses would be minimal say £10.00 for diesal and £30.00 for doorpersons wage, £20.00 for promotional material which leaves us with £165.00 between four musicians = £41.25 per musician, total amount of hours worked (not including rehearsal time) aprox. including travel, setting up, sound check, performance, packing away, loding and unloading van = 11 hours per person which gives us a grand total hourly wage of £3.75 per hour.
    Having worked hard within the music scene for over 20 some years I think that you can agree that £3.75 an hour is a miserable wage by anyones standards, but that is not all, what if say 100 people turn up or two hundred, well if that happens then we will certainly get paid better but there is the other side of that coin what if only ten people turn up? it will then be down to the Gaels to raise the money to pay Dead Grateful the agreed fee, so we are taking a risk.
    and finally , I have met some excellent musicians some of whom I have tried to convince unsuccesfully to return to the music scene but will not, their reason being that they ended up taking on different jobs simply because they refuse to stand on stage and sweat it out night after night for next to nothing so they pack it in and the music scene dies a little more, but oh I hear you cry you should do it solely for the love of music..and we do but when a mixing desk decides it wants to pack in, a speaker blows or an amp has some drunk guy spill beer on it then the love of music won't pay for the repair bill (believe me I asked lol).

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by clash67 View Post
    ok I have read everyones threads and would firstly like to thank everyone who has stuck up for us, and I understand the point that K Dragon is trying to make however let me explain the reason we are charging £6 is because the Gaels is hiring the venue, there will be entertainment provided by two established bands both of which will have expenses, time of work,wages for the doorperson, travel, advertising etc. both bands will have to load a ton of gear into a van cart it to the venue and set it up on Sat afternoon when most of you will be enjoying a pint downtown, sitting down to a nice lunch or perhaps are at work (for which you obviously get paid).
    We will then spend the next two hours sound checkin to get the best quality sound we can for the audience. After which Dead Grateful will perform two forty five minute sets followed by the Gaels and we will perform roughly two one hour sets...how much do we end up getting paid? Well let see, suppose 75 people turn up 75 X £6 = £450.00 which would be £225.00 per band our expenses would be minimal say £10.00 for diesal and £30.00 for doorpersons wage, £20.00 for promotional material which leaves us with £165.00 between four musicians = £41.25 per musician, total amount of hours worked (not including rehearsal time) aprox. including travel, setting up, sound check, performance, packing away, loding and unloading van = 11 hours per person which gives us a grand total hourly wage of £3.75 per hour.
    Having worked hard within the music scene for over 20 some years I think that you can agree that £3.75 an hour is a miserable wage by anyones standards, but that is not all, what if say 100 people turn up or two hundred, well if that happens then we will certainly get paid better but there is the other side of that coin what if only ten people turn up? it will then be down to the Gaels to raise the money to pay Dead Grateful the agreed fee, so we are taking a risk.
    and finally , I have met some excellent musicians some of whom I have tried to convince unsuccesfully to return to the music scene but will not, their reason being that they ended up taking on different jobs simply because they refuse to stand on stage and sweat it out night after night for next to nothing so they pack it in and the music scene dies a little more, but oh I hear you cry you should do it solely for the love of music..and we do but when a mixing desk decides it wants to pack in, a speaker blows or an amp has some drunk guy spill beer on it then the love of music won't pay for the repair bill (believe me I asked lol).
    We don't often agree, Loon, but this time we do.
    In the image of God? You must be joking!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pepsi Challenge View Post
    Many, many thanks for showing Shona and the Sirens such warm hospitality, Gleber2. I think a few new friends have been made. Hopefully their first official performance is a gig at Keepers' Cottages.
    See you in a couple of weeks! Mr Mowbray says a big HI, as well.
    I've already offered them a slot in September so one can hope. A fine bunch of ladies and fine musicians as well. Look forward to seeing you and the mad piano player and the Eyetie ice cream maker.
    In the image of God? You must be joking!

  11. #31
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    thanks for the better non smart alec explanation clash.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by clash67 View Post
    ok I have read everyones threads and would firstly like to thank everyone who has stuck up for us, and I understand the point that K Dragon is trying to make however let me explain the reason we are charging £6 is because the Gaels is hiring the venue, there will be entertainment provided by two established bands both of which will have expenses, time of work,wages for the doorperson, travel, advertising etc. both bands will have to load a ton of gear into a van cart it to the venue and set it up on Sat afternoon when most of you will be enjoying a pint downtown, sitting down to a nice lunch or perhaps are at work (for which you obviously get paid).
    We will then spend the next two hours sound checkin to get the best quality sound we can for the audience. After which Dead Grateful will perform two forty five minute sets followed by the Gaels and we will perform roughly two one hour sets...how much do we end up getting paid? Well let see, suppose 75 people turn up 75 X £6 = £450.00 which would be £225.00 per band our expenses would be minimal say £10.00 for diesal and £30.00 for doorpersons wage, £20.00 for promotional material which leaves us with £165.00 between four musicians = £41.25 per musician, total amount of hours worked (not including rehearsal time) aprox. including travel, setting up, sound check, performance, packing away, loding and unloading van = 11 hours per person which gives us a grand total hourly wage of £3.75 per hour.
    Having worked hard within the music scene for over 20 some years I think that you can agree that £3.75 an hour is a miserable wage by anyones standards, but that is not all, what if say 100 people turn up or two hundred, well if that happens then we will certainly get paid better but there is the other side of that coin what if only ten people turn up? it will then be down to the Gaels to raise the money to pay Dead Grateful the agreed fee, so we are taking a risk.
    and finally , I have met some excellent musicians some of whom I have tried to convince unsuccesfully to return to the music scene but will not, their reason being that they ended up taking on different jobs simply because they refuse to stand on stage and sweat it out night after night for next to nothing so they pack it in and the music scene dies a little more, but oh I hear you cry you should do it solely for the love of music..and we do but when a mixing desk decides it wants to pack in, a speaker blows or an amp has some drunk guy spill beer on it then the love of music won't pay for the repair bill (believe me I asked lol).
    Proof, if needed, that musicians invariably always end up with a bum deal. Clash67, you're worth every penny of that six quid. And them some. The few people who have come onto this thread to condemn Howlin' Gaels for charging that price - fellow musicians I might add - make me sick, and prove that they are, most definitely, part of the problem.

  13. #33
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    Well this could go on for long enough, well done Donnie for coming in and explaining. K Dragon I will say when someone doesn't quite see things your way you tend to dismiss everything awful quickly, you seem to have not much patience whatsoever?? Maybe something needs working on, maybe not. But when you come in putting down the price being charged and making a hoohaa about it on a public forum it could make some people not feel like going. All you had to say from the beginning is "Why is it 6 pound?" and someone would have explained I am sure.

    I have watched the Gaels since before their first ever gig, watched them for countless hours practicing in many different houses including my own and seen every single lineup they have had except for the current one, and they are well worth 6 quid and more. What you see on stage with the gaels is over 20 years of Blood sweat and tears and having to put up with miserable money and other disturbances along the way, but they have never given up, there is not many bands still on the go after 20 years. The title of the last album Lonely Road pretty much tells all.

    GOOD LUCK GUYS!!!!

  14. #34

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    Don't get me wrong Orgers I took no offence at the reaction to the entry fee, I suppose it just needed explaining. £6 for a whole nights worth of live entertainment is really peanuts.

  15. #35
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    i have been here before, my attitude has nothing to do with any folk on here. its text, you cannot even fathom someones personality over a flipping forum. so where as I SEEM QUICK TO DISMISS, some folk seem quick to judge me.

    many a time i have been persecuted or judged or ganged up on (seems to be the regular crowd mind you) on this forum, even AFTER the amount of work i have done and im STILL doing, sometimes makes me feel as if i wanna scrap everything.

    but no no, someone will come on after this post and immediatley talk down to me again, and say

    "k dragon, you were obviously jumping the gun again, no one was condescending you, your lack of patience and negative attitude made you see those nasty things on the screen"

    im doing my best, and all i said was "only six quid!!!!!!"

    then explained that i wasnt keen on the price as a consumer.

    then im expected to know all the ins and outs of money with bands and talked down to.

    then some dude named after a soft drink keeps trying to push his life long OPINIONS on me about being ripped off and basically saying i dont know diddley, then has the cheek to get sarcatsic at me with remarks about me not being into economics and politics. THEN he adds himself to the list of folk who seem to have a problem with my attitude.

    your all older than me!! how can you all expect me to know everything about music and gigging?

    i dont do that do i.

    in fact i feel a majority of you only replied to me because you felt i was insulting the gaels. and i explained that i wasnt.

    hey cazaa you wanna get in here and kick me while im down, room for one more.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by K dragon View Post
    i have been here before, my attitude has nothing to do with any folk on here. its text, you cannot even fathom someones personality over a flipping forum. so where as I SEEM QUICK TO DISMISS, some folk seem quick to judge me.

    many a time i have been persecuted or judged or ganged up on (seems to be the regular crowd mind you) on this forum, even AFTER the amount of work i have done and im STILL doing, sometimes makes me feel as if i wanna scrap everything.

    but no no, someone will come on after this post and immediatley talk down to me again, and say

    "k dragon, you were obviously jumping the gun again, no one was condescending you, your lack of patience and negative attitude made you see those nasty things on the screen"

    im doing my best, and all i said was "only six quid!!!!!!"

    then explained that i wasnt keen on the price as a consumer.

    then im expected to know all the ins and outs of money with bands and talked down to.

    then some dude named after a soft drink keeps trying to push his life long OPINIONS on me about being ripped off and basically saying i dont know diddley, then has the cheek to get sarcatsic at me with remarks about me not being into economics and politics. THEN he adds himself to the list of folk who seem to have a problem with my attitude.

    your all older than me!! how can you all expect me to know everything about music and gigging?

    i dont do that do i.

    in fact i feel a majority of you only replied to me because you felt i was insulting the gaels. and i explained that i wasnt.

    hey cazaa you wanna get in here and kick me while im down, room for one more.
    I think what you wrote was

    Only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    and added a red angry face to it as well. Pretty self explanatory that, internet or no internet?

  17. #37
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    jeemag, when did i put a bee in your bonnet?

    right folks, i give up.

    i shall shut my gob, do the gigs and stuff and never complain or voice an opinion of mine again.

    huurraahhh!!

    im off to bloody bed

    here...jeemag, sad face, pretty self explanitory, internet or no internet aye.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by K dragon View Post
    i have been here before, my attitude has nothing to do with any folk on here. its text, you cannot even fathom someones personality over a flipping forum. so where as I SEEM QUICK TO DISMISS, some folk seem quick to judge me.

    many a time i have been persecuted or judged or ganged up on (seems to be the regular crowd mind you) on this forum, even AFTER the amount of work i have done and im STILL doing, sometimes makes me feel as if i wanna scrap everything.

    but no no, someone will come on after this post and immediatley talk down to me again, and say

    "k dragon, you were obviously jumping the gun again, no one was condescending you, your lack of patience and negative attitude made you see those nasty things on the screen"

    im doing my best, and all i said was "only six quid!!!!!!"

    then explained that i wasnt keen on the price as a consumer.

    then im expected to know all the ins and outs of money with bands and talked down to.

    then some dude named after a soft drink keeps trying to push his life long OPINIONS on me about being ripped off and basically saying i dont know diddley, then has the cheek to get sarcatsic at me with remarks about me not being into economics and politics. THEN he adds himself to the list of folk who seem to have a problem with my attitude.

    your all older than me!! how can you all expect me to know everything about music and gigging?

    i dont do that do i.

    in fact i feel a majority of you only replied to me because you felt i was insulting the gaels. and i explained that i wasnt.

    hey cazaa you wanna get in here and kick me while im down, room for one more.
    You genuinely worry me with this sort of talk, K Dragon. You seem to think you're constantly hard done by, that the whole world is against you. None of my posts were designed to single you out, or attack you. I was merely trying to put my point across via my own personal experience. No biggie.

  19. #39

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    why can you bigger bands play at the thurso gig big gig i dont see any howling gales down on that list made be they its too big for them most other bands fae the town are play at that or made they on tour at that and dont shout am just asking

  20. #40
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    Guys guys guys.... cool doon! K dragon might be interested to know that 4 bands are playing skins the same night with £1 entry fee. Thats like 25p per band PLUS the musical delights of FRANTIC FRED FIRTH! What more could you ask for?

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