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Thread: UDI for Scotland?

  1. #21
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    they may have not swayed your vote but do you not think if something that is promised should be kept?
    sometimes the devil needs an advocate

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by billmoseley View Post
    but do you not think if something that is promised should be kept?
    Yes, to promise falsely is a sin.

    I do hope the leaders of political factions wouldn't do that!

  3. #23
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    Right, who was turned off by the SNP?*1
    Who said that Alex Salmond should resign?*2
    And who was running someone down for their 'irrational obsession with the SNP'? *3

    *1 "I'm turned off by the SNP's irrational obsession with Scottish Independence, I just don't get it. Partly or mainly because they have a clever little answer for everything that is critical of it"

    Did Alex Salmond tell lies?

    *2 "I agree (w), it does look more than ever that he mislead us all. I think his resignation may now be the only option open for him if he is to save the Yes campaign."

    *3 "I would dare to add that you (x) are the perfect example of one who has an irrational obsession with SI. It is a matter of public record of your track record on the subject. That is the problem that you have, how can you convince someone of the merits of SI when you are irrationally obsessed by it? You've been presented by umpteen examples of why economics of an independent scotland would mean higher taxes for all of us yet you don't acknowledge it or you simply say that you don't care and that is not your main concern."

    Most certainly a Damascus Road experience!, but pretty rich navigating a 180 degree turn?

    Answers please on a postcard to Gordon Lamb House...EH8 8PJ
    "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekisman View Post
    Right, who was turned off by the SNP?*1
    Who said that Alex Salmond should resign?*2
    And who was running someone down for their 'irrational obsession with the SNP'? *3

    *1 "I'm turned off by the SNP's irrational obsession with Scottish Independence, I just don't get it. Partly or mainly because they have a clever little answer for everything that is critical of it"

    Did Alex Salmond tell lies?

    *2 "I agree (w), it does look more than ever that he mislead us all. I think his resignation may now be the only option open for him if he is to save the Yes campaign."

    *3 "I would dare to add that you (x) are the perfect example of one who has an irrational obsession with SI. It is a matter of public record of your track record on the subject. That is the problem that you have, how can you convince someone of the merits of SI when you are irrationally obsessed by it? You've been presented by umpteen examples of why economics of an independent scotland would mean higher taxes for all of us yet you don't acknowledge it or you simply say that you don't care and that is not your main concern."

    Most certainly a Damascus Road experience!, but pretty rich navigating a 180 degree turn?

    Answers please on a postcard to Gordon Lamb House...EH8 8PJ
    It definitely was a Damascus road experience Bekisman! I spent years propping up the same old unionist propoganda like you do. As an Englishman, I was institutionally conditioned to accept that the full weight of English votes at Westminster made the UK into effectively an extended English state. I cared not whether the UK was extracting Scottish resources and spreading the benefits of them amongst 60 million rather than 5 million because I was convinced that the Greater State of the UK was a just cause. I was blind to the fact that Scotland contributed more to the UK than she reaped back.

    But what I didn't realise then was that I consider myself to be a human being on planet Earth before I am English or a resident in Scotland. I see the political surge to UKIP, BNP and the tory right wing in England which is unapologetically British nationalistic and insular from europe. I fear the wider political landscape in the UK as being increasingly neoliberal in its economic policies and anti-environment. Very distasteful in my opinion. I also see the continual erosion of public services that I hold dear but those public services will be enshrined in a written constitution in an independent Scotland. As a socialist, I feel that totally compelling. A realised that a Yes vote was not for Scottish nationalism, it was a vote for social democratic change that benefits the people and the environment and not the elite. I see a No vote as a vote for elitism but I also see its resulting unfair society as an unsustainable society.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  5. #25
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    Sorry Reggie, I'll get back to your earlier treatise, but still can't find the exact period in which you had this amazing revelation, the actual point of realisation you were banging the wrong drum.. I have time on my hands at the moment and apart from my pastime of pulling wings off flies had a wee look over your various comments for the last 5 years.
    By the look of it, going from what you've written below to now your near fanatical support of SNP and poor Alex (failed) Salmond, was, to quote from your past words on "Cloud Cuckooland"!
    Of course I'll concede that anyone can 'change their minds' but to go from rampant anti-SNP to rampant pro-SNP (Policies), does, I'm afraid take away a lot of your credibility. Telling us that for example "Salmond knows full well that North Sea oil is on its last death throes", and many ideas and views which may well have influenced others reading your earlier proclamations, who may have taken these on board in their voting intentions, with the resultant swing along your previous lines i.e. you caused some to vote 'no', how ironic!

    I digress and better not dally, as no doubt your Mentor and protector Squidge will soon be back from Hols and award me yet another red negative point against me 'on your behalf' - very surprised Reggie, as even you don't do that, but then you do know that for many years you and I have had these rather un-private tête-à-tête conversations and I actually hold no malice towards you.

    A little morsel from your earlier utterances, about the political surges to BNP (thought their membership had fallen by 58%?.. Oops must desist, this will be for later.
    Enjoy:

    "It seems Alex will lead a one man campaign to push up the tax burden in a independent Scotland. In the meantime he is just content to treat his own dentist to dinner and a concert ticket. Out of touch or what?.. Alex Salmond in Expenses Row again. It seems Alex will lead a one man campaign to push up the tax burden in a independent Scotland. .. Ah right, that must be the SNP that He was referring to as they are on cloud cuckooland.. The Scottish National Party have been accused of having private talks with wind farm developers about wind farm planning applications. Such activity is in direct contravention of the MSP code of conduct sparking fears that the SNP will sell out rural Scotland to a heavy phase of aero-industrialisation in the near future.... I see Salmond is trying to get the debate blocked from being shown on Scottish TV channels. Blatant censorship if you ask me and pretty childish. Alex Salmond, does he just bungle along? He is now in favour of the Trident missile system. What next? A new reactor at Dounreay?..Salmond knows full well that North Sea oil is on its last death throes, Scotland will become a net importer of oil soon enough but he knows that Scotland sits on quite a lot of recoverable coal...Just wondering if the pro-independence voters are more certain then a delay to Autumn 2014 will lead to campaign fatigue/impatience and turn voters off thus being better for unionists. I know a vote in the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn would be better for independence but a 2 year campaign is a high risk strategy for the SNP et al. (you were right there Reggie!!)
    Last edited by bekisman; 06-Oct-14 at 16:52. Reason: left out word
    "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekisman View Post
    By the look of it, going from what you've written below to now your near fanatical support of SNP and poor Alex (failed) Salmond, was, to quote from your past words on "Cloud Cuckooland"!
    I refer you back to post #24. What you talking about? Are you on cloud cuckoo land? I've never supported the SNP.
    Last edited by Rheghead; 06-Oct-14 at 15:34.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    I refer you back to post #24. What you talking about? Are you on cloud cuckoo land? I've never supported the SNP.
    Whoops! forgot to put in 'policies' with ref to SNP.
    "never supported the SNP"? It seems you Reggie a Cumbria lad and Squidge a Lancashire lassie are one and the same person! Squidge was also challenged about supporting the SNP, her response "This referendum is not about the SNP..." and the answer from
    (Rob Murray) "only party ever wanted a referendum, the SNP, their sole reason for existence is and always has been to gain independence, so how can you argue that the referendum is not about the SNP, only they have instigated it, if they hadn't then we wouldn't be where we are".. good point. (Apologies to Rob)
    My connection to this particular website (only) is very slow, NOT a MU Hack I hope?
    Last edited by bekisman; 06-Oct-14 at 20:04.
    "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

  8. #28
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    Your fairy stories get more bizarre, I'm also a Lancastrian if you please.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Your fairy stories get more bizarre, I'm also a Lancastrian if you please.
    Oh you are funny Reggie, of COURSE I know you are not a Cumbria lad, all I wanted was for you to admit that you and Squidge ARE one and the same person - ta!
    "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekisman View Post
    Oh you are funny Reggie, of COURSE I know you are not a Cumbria lad, all I wanted was for you to admit that you and Squidge ARE one and the same person - ta!
    If I admitted that then I'd get banned for having a sockpuppet
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekisman View Post
    Oh you are funny Reggie, of COURSE I know you are not a Cumbria lad, all I wanted was for you to admit that you and Squidge ARE one and the same person - ta!
    Sad to say they are two seperate persons Beki' have met them both, they used to be reasonable folks, I blame the referendum
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by golach View Post
    Sad to say they are two seperate persons Beki' have met them both, they used to be reasonable folks, I blame the referendum
    Oh well never mind, that's one theory up the spout, must admit though they seem to speak exactly the same language, and getting a Red mark from Squidge on behalf of Reggie, did get me thinking they were clones.
    "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

  13. #33
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    you all believed the lies first time round, have spoken to many who wished they had voted YES, and they will not be fooled a second time !

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by piratelassie View Post
    you all believed the lies first time round, have spoken to many who wished they had voted YES, and they will not be fooled a second time !
    Well I was not fooled, and now Eck wants to join the place he wanted to get rid off, he got paid £65k the last time he left, will he return that now?.......I think not.
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

  15. #35
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    [Q Lizz, do I take it from this remark that you agree with colonialism?
    UOTE=LIZZ;1099187]Last country to declare UDI was Rhodesia under Iain Smith and look what happened there.[/QUOTE]

  16. #36
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    You might think the independence argument is over, you can think again
    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Now let me see if I understand your correctly Rheg,despite having had a fair and just referendum which gave people two choices, either for Independence or for the Union. The results of which are now history but just too remind you, was 2,001,926 voted No and 1,617,989 voted Yes, which amounts to a clear and unequivocal vote to remain part of the United Kingdom.
    You now feel along with your minority of social media compadres that its might be an idea to ignore the legitimate and democratic right of the electorate to have their word listened to and resort to political gerrymandering to get your way.
    The fact that you even admit to having considered albeit briefly armed struggle shows how out of touch you are with the workings of legitimate democracy.

  17. #37
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    For all the hot air on this thread and despite the pronouncements regarding democracy by bekisman, golach, Better Together etc. there are many who are disillusioned with the Westminster elite and their paymasters. It’s a poor reflection of democracy that resides there.
    The Scottish Referendum showed that people can be galvanized in to action. Currently there appears to be little difference between conservative, labour and liberal ideologies; they offer only the same old-same old. That’s why increasing numbers of people are looking for innovative change and something different.
    There will be people who will vote SNP; not because they want independence, but because they don’t see any of the Westminster parties working for them.
    UKIP and SNP will add an interesting dimension to whatever happens on May 7th.
    'We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike.'
    Maya Angelou

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