Spice Tandoori

[gerry4]

I see that for the second time in a year most if not all of its workers have found to be here illegally. I feel sorry for those workers knowing how these people are usually exploited by employers.

I know this an explosive topic & I don't want race to be brought into it. It is a matter of humanity. I want illegal immigration stopped mainly for the reasons that of exploitation by many people, those who get them in & then by those who employ them.

If the owners employed them knowing their status, what does that say about the owners? What does it say about us as customers who may still support them by eating there? I have been a long time customer and have been amazed by how little the waiters knew about the area & the areas they used to work in, like Elgin & Lossie. I wonder why they knew so little.

This was my favourite asian restaurant, maybe not anymore. Will have to try to improve my own homemade curries.

The link to the story in the Groat http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/...d-25042014.htm

Please do not turn this into an BNP, UKIP, anti-immigrant, race hating thread, that is not my intention for posting this.

[sids]

Hope they're not closing, or at least not for long.

Good food!

[gerry4]

at any price?

Does anyone know if they were fined for the previous find of illegal workers?

[Kevin Milkins]

I find it extraordinary how the British owned business are hounded into working within the law and guidelines of the land and these type of businesses are able to operate using the "I no understand" routine". Its not only unfair on the company's that do work within the law, but as already been pointed out by gerry4, this not is a victimless practice.

[Big Gaz]

It's not just the point that there are illegals working there, it's also the fact that the N.I. contributions & Tax won't be getting paid either! and proper welfare of employees obviously won't exist let alone H&S as all this costs money. It's totally out of order when it comes to the genuine and hard-working businessman who gets crapped on by HMRC and the govt every year with their incessant taxation and red tape and these kind of businesses get away with it. Also, as previously mentioned, last year there were 6 reported illegals removed from the premises (not to mention several other premises in Wick and surrounding towns!! they are all on the take!!) each illegal worker removed amounts to a £10k fine yet there has been nothing in the news or court cases to say the owner/s have been done.

Joe public might think he is getting a great meal at a great price but he is the clown who is paying for it twice! yes twice!! once at the counter then again when it comes to lost tax revenue, insurance contributions and of course judicial costs which have to be paid for out of Joe public's pocket!

The simple answer is to stop using them but i know that won't happen...

[gerry4]

I find it extraordinary how the British owned business are hounded into working within the law and guidelines of the land and these type of businesses are able to operate using the "I no understand" routine". Its not only unfair on the company's that do work within the law, but as already been pointed out by gerry4, this not is a victimless practice.

I don't think you can say they they are being let off when they have been done twice in under a year. I notice that the businesses in Wick, Thurso & Ft. William are all up for sale.

[mi16]

They make a cracking ruby Murray though

[Kevin Milkins]

I don't think you can say they they are being let off when they have been done twice in under a year. I notice that the businesses in Wick, Thurso & Ft. William are all up for sale.

I wasn't suggesting that they are being let off, but more of finding it difficult to enforce the law because of the elusive nature of the proprietors.

[squidge]

There has to be real concern when a business is found to be using illegal labour. There are so many worrying questions. How exploited have these poor people been? Getting here is only the start. I would be concerned that they are being paid rubbish wages, have no rights or protection. Where are they living and in what conditions?

What about if they are ill, are they getting healthcare or hiding away? Not to mention the lack of tax or ni contributions. If they are employing illegal labour how diligent are the employers about food hygiene training? Or employees health and safety training? The whole thing is worrying across a wide range of issues. What powers are there to shut the place down?

I think Gerry might be right - maybe there is an opening for some Indian cookery classes in Wick! Failing that Gerry, I can recommend "The Curry Cookbook" . For someone who has never cooked curries before we no longer want a takeaway. The dishes are well tasty and relatively easy

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wiro-Cookboo.../dp/1445438119

[jacko]

Can't fault people for trying to better themselves s , but this reflects on how easy it is to get into Britain,Makes one wonder just how many illegal s are in the country.

[gerry4]

I think Gerry might be right - maybe there is an opening for some Indian cookery classes in Wick! Failing that Gerry, I can recommend "The Curry Cookbook" . For someone who has never cooked curries before we no longer want a takeaway. The dishes are well tasty and relatively easy

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wiro-Cookboo.../dp/1445438119

May give it a go, thanks

[Phill]

I'm not condoning what appears to be going on, nor agreeing with the practice of illegal immigration as a workforce. But, the usual rhetoric of exploitation comes out it seems. From the 'immigrants' point of view they MAY be getting paid handsomely, living like kings and sending cash home to their families, in comparison to where they may have lived previously.

[squidge]

It's the "in comparison" that worries me. Is it ok then? We can excuse the employers because they are giving them more than they might get at home?

Should we just then accept it's ok for employers to exploit people because they are desperate enough to travel perhaps half way round the world? Or because paying them £3 an hour for example is more than they would get at home? These people come here illegally for a better life and they are often enabled to do so by unscrupulous employers who take advantage of them in order to make more money for themselves.

Who are the bigger villains?

[Phill]

Is it ok then? We can excuse the employers because they are giving them more than they might get at home?

Errm, calm down! The answer was in my post:

I'm not condoning what appears to be going on, nor agreeing with the practice of illegal immigration as a workforce.

Should we just then accept it's ok for employers to exploit people because they are desperate enough to travel perhaps half way round the world? Or because paying them £3 an hour for example is more than they would get at home? These people come here illegally for a better life and they are often enabled to do so by unscrupulous employers who take advantage of them in order to make more money for themselves.

I was merely pointing out that it may not necessarily be exploitation of the 'immigrant' in the sense that they are being abused and used as wage free servants. They may actually be abusing the 'employer' by getting into a country that offers them a better life and they get a wage which may be far above what they could get in their homeland.

It's all too easy to blame 'the rich', 'the employers', 'the capitalist pig dogs' etc. etc. etc. but it may have been an amicable, albeit illegal, agreement. Often these cases are friends or family.
i.e. Random individual in 3rd world country may earn £3 per month doing a hard, manual job, working extremely long hours in very poor conditions, lets say Victorian Mill style H&S.
Or, Random individual could come to the UK illegally, work (in relative luxury) for a mate for £800 per month. Live in cheap digs and send £200 per month back home to family.

I am not agreeing to it. When I'm dictator there will be no EU membership & the borders will be locked down. But, you have to see the other side of the coin, there are people who have absolutely no legal right to come here, ever. But some do and they work hard to try and better themselves and their families.
And yes some employers get cheaper labour out of it, taxman aside its a win win. But it ain't always exploitation.

[Big Gaz]

Random individual could come to the UK illegally, work (in relative luxury) for a mate for £800 per month. Live in cheap digs and send £200 per month back home to family.

More often the reality is the worker gets charged for lodgings and gets it taken out of his wages thus leaving a pittance to do nothing with really.

End of the day, if they are illegally here then they cannot legally work for anyone. The employer cannot legally pay them as there is no NI number or tax code so he is unable to deduct NI and tax at source. Simply put, both employer and worker are evading tax!


Oh and i see the restuarant is still open for business......guess the hit squad must have missed a few of the cooks hiding in the cracks and air vents

[Phill]

I agree with a lot of what you say BG.

More often the reality is the worker gets charged for lodgings and gets it taken out of his wages thus leaving a pittance to do nothing with really.

I knew of exactly this case, with a company I worked for a few years ago. But it was a pittance to me, and probably to you. And when the police & immigration service raided they did not want to go home.
In the end, employer paid back tax & fines and 'immigrants' continued as before. Paid less than 'local' workforce, digs taken out of wages, all now legit & taxed. And they still sent money home.

[squidge]

And yes some employers get cheaper labour out of it, taxman aside its a win win. But it ain't always exploitation.

If an employer is getting cheap labour, avoiding taxes, making bigger profits by employing someone illegally who has no rights then it is ALWAYS exploitation of the person and the situation. Especially if the person they are employing is grateful for the opportunity. They may work hard to better themselves but that can be taken away at a blink because they have utterly no rights.

As for the rest, the capitalist pig dogs - crikey Phil lol- I don't think I have EVER used that phrase before in my life! I certainly wasn't castigating you for somehow supporting the process just disagreeing with you.

[golach]

Spent a few years of my life helping to bring many from the Indian sub continent to boot with the HMC&E for similar type crimes. Crimes such as these are classed as minor by the majority, non payment of taxes, to them is not a crime, if you can get away with it.

[Big Gaz]

non payment of taxes, to them is not a crime, if you can get away with it.

Many of their ilk think anything that is a crime, isn't really, if they can get away with it!. When they get rumbled, they claim it was a brother or cousin with the same name. The takeaway next to my old shop "changed hands" approximately every 12 months. A "for sale" sign would go up, photos taken, front shop redecorated (just a lick of paint) and the "new owners" had a grand opening night. Electric and gas bills were left unpaid by the "previous tenant". It was still the exact same people in there in the 4 years i had the shop next door and no doubt for a few years previous to that too. They soon got clobbered when Eon decided to bill the owner of the building for all the previously unpaid bills. No prizes for guessing who owned the building! I remember the uproar in the local paper about it, somewhere in the region of £29k in utilities unpaid over 3 years and threats to the Eon guy when he went in to cut them off. It also transpired that they had their electric & gas supply cut off by their previous supplier British Gas over unpaid bills and they just reconnected it themselves. They had also tried to dig a hole out the back of the shop to reach the electric cable and their intention was to splice into it and refill the hole and cover over it with a nice new patio, hoping nobody would be any the wiser. Guess it pays handsomely to be a pizza/kebab takeaway owner these days.....

[gerry4]

I'm not condoning what appears to be going on, nor agreeing with the practice of illegal immigration as a workforce. But, the usual rhetoric of exploitation comes out it seems. From the 'immigrants' point of view they MAY be getting paid handsomely, living like kings and sending cash home to their families, in comparison to where they may have lived previously.

Are they paid the proper wage? If not then they are cheap labour making more profit for the owner. As they don't know the area, are they free to go out on their days off, if they have days off? Need I go on?