WTC7 again.

[rambler]

So all those that worked on the ground and had to deal with red hot steel are just telling lies?

[JAWS]

And it's taken all this time for somebody to manufacture that one. So now the BBC are part of the "Conspiracy", well fred, I'm glad we agree on something, the BBC News cannot be trusted to report the facts.
And all this time you have refused to accept that they are politically motivated.
If that is genuine, un-doctored BBC output then all it shows is that they will conspire to do anything in order to discredit the USA.

Come on folks, lets all join in. The person with the silliest Conspiracy Theory about 9/11 gets a prize - a copy of Grimms' Fairytales!

Next fred will be telling us that News at Ten sent a camera crew out every night to show Big Ben striking live.

I'm waiting for somebody to tell us that the WTC is still standing but pictures showing it to have gone have been doctored.

Fred, even if all the conspiracy theories were true, at the end of the day there are only the few politically minded or those who want to write about Conspiracies who have the slightest interest. I love a good comedy, Monty Python, eat your heart out, at last you've got serious competition.

Accept it fred, the horse is not only dead but the corpse has rotted away and keeping on flogging it ain't going to change that fact.

Anybody believe that Capricorn One is the absolute truth about the moon landing? And Nessie does exist because there's a photo which "proves" it.

[rambler]

Hi Jaws, if you would only know how many people in New York know fairly well of molten steel etc., you would possibly change your mind. Mainstream news have decided to promote the truths of Blair and Bush. Well you see the result of this truth in Afghanistan and Iraq. Maybe we see it in New York as well? Fact is there was molten steel at the ground of the WTC. Why?

[JAWS]

No Rambler, the question is, "Why Not?" When was the last time buildings of such size were damaged and collapsed in the same way for comparison.

Oh yes, and you don't pick molten metal up with a Grab. I notice it is always the same highly dodgy pictures which appear time and again. That’s apart from the dodgy supposed BBC clip showing the Tower’s falling down before they did collapse.
I shall watch the BBC closely in case they “accidentally” give the result of the next Grand National before the race starts so I can fleece the Bookies. Anybody want to bet it will never happen?

The whole of the American Government, both Democrat and Republican, the whole of the American Military, the whole of the American Law Enforcement, the whole of the American Civil Aviation Authority and the whole of the World's media have conspired together to lie to the whole of the World's Population and everybody was fooled.
The only people who know the real truth are those whose intellect is so far above that of the rest of humanity that only they know the truth.

I'm surprised nobody has tried to blame the Little Green Men who are the ones really controlling the World.
Ooh, look, another UFO! I told you Close Encounters was true! ET phone home! Or is One (they all) Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest more appropriate?

The only thing that I have become convinced of is that those who are determined to “discover” a Conspiracy have got so desperate that they will grasp at any passing fantasy that comes within range. Talk about grasping at straws, it seems some people are doing it by the armful.
Still, it's good for a laugh if nothing else.

[fred]

I am not in denial, I think you are the one who is in denial. Just have a look at the picture again, it is totally false.

First off, I have worked in a foundry and I am familiar with the properties of molten metal.

The colour of the dropping molten blobs of steel is wrong. They should be yellow-yellow/white. Anything more orange will be solid, the blobs are orange/red. Molten steel gives off lots of light and would be almost impossible to look at with the naked eye, yet men are working on it with just a JCB!

That isn't a JCB.

Here's another video, a video of molten steel being poured in a steel foundary, is this one fake as well?



Must have been quite a conspiracy to fake molten steel at the WTC, doctoring the newsreel footage, bribing all those firemen and clearance workers to say they'd seen it, doctoring that photo, planting a huge lump of solidified steel and concrete at the scene.

There was molten steel at the WTC and a lot of it, there is too much evidence from too many different sources to believe otherwise, you are just clutching at straws in a desperate attempt at not having to admit you were wrong.

[Rheghead]

That isn't a JCB.

Here's another video, a video of molten steel being poured in a steel foundary, is this one fake as well?



Must have been quite a conspiracy to fake molten steel at the WTC, doctoring the newsreel footage, bribing all those firemen and clearance workers to say they'd seen it, doctoring that photo, planting a huge lump of solidified steel and concrete at the scene.

There was molten steel at the WTC and a lot of it, there is too much evidence from too many different sources to believe otherwise, you are just clutching at straws in a desperate attempt at not having to admit you were wrong.

You have just proved my point. The contrast is correct on this foundry photograph and the camera apperture is adjusted to the light and under exposed the surrounding area. That clearly hasn't happened in the WTC shot. And another point, to film molten metal you will need a filter or special film in the camera to prevent over exposure.

The contrast in the WTC shot is just wrong, it is a fake.

[fred]

You have just proved my point. The contrast is correct on this foundry photograph and the camera apperture is adjusted to the light and under exposed the surrounding area. That clearly hasn't happened in the WTC shot. And another point, to film molten metal you will need a filter or special film in the camera to prevent over exposure.

The contrast in the WTC shot is just wrong, it is a fake.

Like I said to roy, a complete waste of time, you will argue for ever but as how much evidence is piled up against you you will never admit you were wrong.

[Metalattakk]

So because Rheghead pulls your presented evidence to bits, and shows it for what it is - lies and "misinformation" - you accuse him of being in the wrong?

Do you fail to see the irony in that?

Away and pull yer heid in, man.

[Rheghead]

Like I said to roy, a complete waste of time, you will argue for ever but as how much evidence is piled up against you you will never admit you were wrong.

How wrong you are for putting up fake photos as evidence. You must think we've all sailed in on the last banana boat.

[MadPict]

Uncomfortable Questions about the Death Star Attack.........................


Iron Burns!!!.....................

[JAWS]

Like I said to roy, a complete waste of time, you will argue for ever but as how much evidence is piled up against you you will never admit you were wrong.

That's about the most accurate thing you have said, fred. No matter how much evidence you will never change your mind.
There are people who are still "convinced" the Earth is flat and everybody is tricked into believing it is round.

And I suppose they really did carry out post mortems on Little Green Men from Roswell, after all there is a film which "proves" it. People just refuse to accept the truth even when such “evidence” is put before them. People are so stupid that they refuse to accept the film wasn’t a fake.

Next you will be trying to convince us that Nessie exists because there are photographs which “prove” that also.
Then, of course, there is photographic “proof” that fairies exist, http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/sense_..._fairies.shtml
In spite of such incontrovertible proof there are people who refuse to accept the facts about Fairies also!

The only "proof" which is being piled up is that the same old rubbish conspiracies are being rehashed over and over again and presented as "new evidence".

[Blazing Sporrans]

Iron Burns!!!

Looks like fred's in for a bit of research to debunk this article....
As I said earlier, my knowledge of metallurgy is about equivalent with my knowledge of what the back of my head looks like, however at least you learn something when you follow the links posted.

Anyway fred, if you followed the evidence presented by links such as the one above with the same vigour and tenacity as you followed and consumed those that you post yourself, then it might make your arguments a bit more even-handed. Instead, your stance always seems that of "accept what I tell you blindly or be labelled ignorant, uninformed, misled, with your head stuck in the sand". A good debate is one in which both sides can learn from one another - not just thumbing your nose and yelling "yah boo and sucks" because someone else enjoys and offers a contrary opinion.

[darkman]

BBCs' head editor of the news, Mr. Porter has now responded to the furore by saying they lost all the tapes from the day of 9/11 and none of the ones that BBC News 24 would help any. Sounds familiar...

One of the greatest atrocities america has suffered and they lose the tapes, what a bunch of lying toerags.

[JAWS]

One of the greatest atrocities america has suffered and they lose the tapes, what a bunch of lying toerags.

The sudden "Discovery" of the alleged BBC’s tapes, which have strangely remained completely un-noticed by all the Conspiracy Buffs for over six years, strikes me as rather strange.

What is even more peculiar, or perhaps I should say convenient, is that the attempt to suddenly include the BBC in the “Conspiracy” comes very shortly after they broadcast a programme demolishing most of the more popular Conspiracy Myths which some seem so keen to have us believe.

The BBC, having shown the main Myths to be so many fantasies must now be denounced, after six very long, long years, as having been part of the Original Conspiracy in a rushed attempt to discredit it and therefore it’s recent programme.

How strange that such a glaring error made on one of the most watched TV Channels, on a day when many people were glued to the News, should just have happened not to be noticed at the time, let alone be missed for over six years. Unless the countless thousands who were watching the BBC at the time were also “Part of the Conspiracy!”

At this rate, the only people who will not end up as part of the “9/11 Conspiracy” will be those involved in spreading such rubbish. The cast of “Conspirators” must, by now, run into tens of millions of people throughout the world.

I hate to admit it, but I actually noticed the BBC's mistake on the day but I got a personal phone-call from the White House asking me not to say anything!
Well, even that’s more believable than some of the tripe put about by those who would have us believe in all the Conspiracies.

“Sorry, what’s that GW? No, I didn’t have to tell them. The BBC footage is already on the Web so everybody knows it has to be true!”

[Rheghead]

Jaws, there was a programme on tonight that mentions the phenomenon of the 'mash-up'. A 'Mash-up' is a piece of footage where film clips can now easily be re-edited and displayed on youtube to say anything that the conspiracy theorists want.

[fred]

How wrong you are for putting up fake photos as evidence. You must think we've all sailed in on the last banana boat.

Rubbish, the photo isn't fake, you're clutching at straws.

I suppose you'll be saying next that all the eye witnesses who corroberate what is shown in the photo are liers.

Admit it, there is no doubt that steel melted on 9/11, the only reason you deny it is because you know there is no way the official version of events can explain it.

Ken Holden, who is involved with the organizing of demolition, excavation and debris removal operations at Ground Zero, later will tell the 9/11 Commission, “Underground, it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from [WTC] Building 6.” [9/11 Commission, 4/1/2003]

William Langewiesche, the only journalist to have unrestricted access to Ground Zero during the cleanup operation, describes, “in the early days, the streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole.” [Langewiesche, 2002, pp. 32]

Leslie Robertson, the structural engineer responsible for the design of the WTC, describes fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks. [SEAU News, 10/2001 pdf file]

Alison Geyh, who heads a team of scientists studying the potential health effects of 9/11, reports, “Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel.” [Johns Hopkins Public Health Magazine, 2001]

Ron Burger, a public health advisor who arrives at Ground Zero on September 12, says that “feeling the heat” and “seeing the molten steel” there reminds him of a volcano. [National Environmental Health Association, 9/2003, pp. 40 pdf file]

According to a member of New York Air National Guard’s 109th Air Wing, who is at Ground Zero from September 22 to October 6, “One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers’ remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots.” [National Guard Magazine, 12/2001]

New York firefighters recall “heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel.” [New York Post, 3/3/2004]

As late as five months after the attacks, in February 2002, firefighter Joe O’Toole sees a steel beam being lifted from deep underground at Ground Zero, which, he says, “was dripping from the molten steel.” [Knight Ridder, 5/29/2002]

[Rheghead]

Rubbish, the photo isn't fake, you're clutching at straws.

I suppose you'll be saying next that all the eye witnesses who corroberate what is shown in the photo are liers.

Admit it, there is no doubt that steel melted on 9/11, the only reason you deny it is because you know there is no way the official version of events can explain it.

I am not getting in an arguement about it, it is a fake. My observations about brightness and contrast are completely valid yet the WTC photo is inconsistent with other photos of molten steel. You can even see lava splashes to left of the grab from the original photo of a volcano like Mauna Loa. The molten bit is completely solid orange/red with no black debris in amongst it and it has 90 degree angles to it. The creator of the photo hasn't even gone to the bother of blending the colours correctly from outside the 'lava square'.

The molten bit should be the brightest thing in the photo with glare and reflections on the grab, but it is out of contrast and very poorly done. I could do a better job!! In fact I have done!!

[Rheghead]

See this

This certainly looks like molten steel/other metal, I will accept that this is what you say. All that jet fuel and burning furnishings must have caused the structure or other fittings to melt in accordance with the theory that the steel framework did actually soften and buckle under the weight of the floors above.

[fred]

I am not getting in an arguement about it, it is a fake. My observations about brightness and contrast are completely valid yet the WTC photo is inconsistent with other photos of molten steel. You can even see lava splashes to left of the grab from the original photo of a volcano like Mauna Loa. The molten bit is completely solid orange/red with no black debris in amongst it and it has 90 degree angles to it. The creator of the photo hasn't even gone to the bother of blending the colours correctly from outside the 'lava square'.

The molten bit should be the brightest thing in the photo with glare and reflections on the grab, but it is out of contrast and very poorly done. I could do a better job!! In fact I have done!!

The photo is genuine, there is no doubt of that and the eye witness reports are genuine too.

But all this is taking us away from the point of the thread, remind me again just how did the BBC describe the collapse of a building 20 minutes before it collapsed and with the building in plain view behind the reporter?

[fred]

“Sorry, what’s that GW? No, I didn’t have to tell them. The BBC footage is already on the Web so everybody knows it has to be true!”

No problem.

If it isn't true then all the BBC needs to do is release the original recording from the day and prove it never happened.