WTC7 again.

[fred]

If so why?

You are going through it again because you keep clicking on a thread you obviously have no interest in.

[MadPict]

Like the repeats on the TV Golach - every year they roll them out for a new audience.

Canuck,
This is a completely new rehash of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories....

[Rheghead]

A carbon fire with forced oxygen would be hot enough, something blowing air into the fire would make it hot enough like the bellows on a blacksmith's forge make the coal burn hot enough to melt the iron.

So you are a steelworks chemist now eh?

Hmm, iron age man was able to melt iron with just a few bits of woods, gosh I never knew that aviation fuel with a 1300ft high wind behinfd it wasn't sufficient to melt steel!

[j4bberw0ck]

Hi everyone. I am here in Caithness on your time zone. And it is still not yet dinner time back in Canada.

Well, canuck, if no one else has the manners to return your greeting, I shall. Even if I'm not in Caithness - welcome back to Eastpondia . Hope the jetlag's working out OK. Cheers! J

[darkman]

Mmmmm, maybe here:

There is no doubt whatsoever that something seriously dodgy was going on that day what with big insurance claims being paid out.

Taken totally out of context, something dodgy doesn't translate as the american government slaughtering 3000 of it's own citizens.
They do have a track record for abusing their own citizens, mkultra springs to mind.

[fred]

So you are a steelworks chemist now eh?

Hmm, iron age man was able to melt iron with just a few bits of woods, gosh I never knew that aviation fuel with a 1300ft high wind behinfd it wasn't sufficient to melt steel!

As I have already pointed out most of the fuel from the planes burnt off in seconds in a huge fireball, mostly outside the buildings.

Iron age man didn't melt iron, they produced iron by a chemical process, they heated iron oxide with charcoal in an enclosed place and the carbon monoxide produced reduced the iron oxide to pure iron which they then wraught.

[MadPict]

A carbon fire with forced oxygen would be hot enough, something blowing air into the fire would make it hot enough like the bellows on a blacksmith's forge make the coal burn hot enough to melt the iron.

Or a non carbon fire, something like thermite which is a mixture of iron oxide and aluminium and burns at a very high temperature, a form of it is used by army demolition teams to cut through steel girders.

Debunking The 9/11 Myths......

"Melted" Steel
CLAIM: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

Source

[Rheghead]

As I have already pointed out most of the fuel from the planes burnt off in seconds in a huge fireball, mostly outside the buildings.

Iron age man didn't melt iron, they produced iron by a chemical process, they heated iron oxide with charcoal in an enclosed place and the carbon monoxide produced reduced the iron oxide to pure iron which they then wraught.

How do you know that 'most' of the fuel burnt in seconds mostly outside the building?

So at no point the iron was in a low viscous form then?

[Rheghead]

Iron age man didn't melt iron, they produced iron by a chemical process.

Yeah, just like your thermite...

[cliffhbuber]

As one who watched the whole sordid and sad affair of the towers on 9/11, and did extensive research after, I must say that most fuel burned inside the buildings burning off the insulation of the steel cross beams, which softened and gave way causing the collapse from the top....
The perimeter vertical structure of the towers was the main support; not the same in the middle of the towers.
It would seem that 'new' videos are the works of image superimposers, an easy technical task these days, and one commonly used by the news 'rags'.
The BBC World we get in Canada has some good programming, particualarly with hard-hitting interviews of political figures.
BBC, in general, has a reputation lately of fudging the news the last few years with a particular slant.

[fred]

Debunking The 9/11 Myths......

But where did all the molten steel come from? You just post a passage from some web site pretending it answers the question when it doesn't. Saying "the steel didn't need to melt" doesn't alter the fact that the steel did melt and it doesn't explain how it happened.

[scotsboy]

Does it (steel) normally melt under controlled demolition conditions?

[fred]

As one who watched the whole sordid and sad affair of the towers on 9/11, and did extensive research after, I must say that most fuel burned inside the buildings burning off the insulation of the steel cross beams, which softened and gave way causing the collapse from the top....
The perimeter vertical structure of the towers was the main support; not the same in the middle of the towers.
It would seem that 'new' videos are the works of image superimposers, an easy technical task these days, and one commonly used by the news 'rags'.
The BBC World we get in Canada has some good programming, particualarly with hard-hitting interviews of political figures.
BBC, in general, has a reputation lately of fudging the news the last few years with a particular slant.

Which still doesn't answer the question "where did the heat come from to melt steel?". There is masses of evidence that large amounts of steel did melt, in this shot you can see white hot molten steel pouring out of the South Tower, what caused it to melt?

[scotsboy]

Which still doesn't answer the question "where did the heat come from to melt steel?". There is masses of evidence that large amounts of steel did melt, in this shot you can see white hot molten steel pouring out of the South Tower, what caused it to melt?

........................Heat

[j4bberw0ck]

Taken totally out of context, something dodgy doesn't translate as the american government slaughtering 3000 of it's own citizens.
They do have a track record for abusing their own citizens, mkultra springs to mind.

D'ohhhhh......it gets worse........ you allege abuse of citizens and cite MK ULTRA as evidence. MK ULTRA involved feeding a few people LSD. 9/11 includes killing 3000+ in a deliberate act of murder involving hi-jacked aircraft.

And you see a link? And it's evidence that the US authorities could have planned this? Executed it? Against their own people?

If that's true then the fact that the British have Porton Down and a servicemen died in a nerve gas test in the Fifties, is prima facie evidence of a plot within the British Government to do something similar to 9/11........ OMG.... they did it of course! It was 7/7! A government plot! And I didn't realise......

Darkman, you are a political genius! Thank you, oh thank you for showing me the light, darkman!

Hang on..... Darkman... the light? D'ohhhhh my brain hurts.....

[j4bberw0ck]

There is masses of evidence that large amounts of steel did melt, in this shot you can see white hot molten steel pouring out of the South Tower, what caused it to melt?

Fred, what says that it's steel?

[darkman]

D'ohhhhh......it gets worse........ you allege abuse of citizens and cite MK ULTRA as evidence. MK ULTRA involved feeding a few people LSD. 9/11 includes killing 3000+ in a deliberate act of murder involving hi-jacked aircraft.

And you see a link? And it's evidence that the US authorities could have planned this? Executed it? Against their own people?

If that's true then the fact that the British have Porton Down and a servicemen died in a nerve gas test in the Fifties, is prima facie evidence of a plot within the British Government to do something similar to 9/11........ OMG.... they did it of course! It was 7/7! A government plot! And I didn't realise......

Darkman, you are a political genius! Thank you, oh thank you for showing me the light, darkman!

Hang on..... Darkman... the light? D'ohhhhh my brain hurts.....

Never!!!, at any time did I say the american government planned and carried out the atrocities on 9/11, let's get that one straight and maybe you will engage your brain before you start spouting your sarcasm at someone else, not a very nice quality in a person.
The example I used is just that, an example of how governments can experiment with no regard for their citizens so don't tell me that someone using 9/11 as the perfect excuse to make lots of money is beyond the realms of possibility, It would be very naive.

[fred]

Fred, what says that it's steel?

What else did you think it might be?

[fred]

Never!!!, at any time did I say the american government planned and carried out the atrocities on 9/11, let's get that one straight and maybe you will engage your brain before you start spouting your sarcasm at someone else, not a very nice quality in a person.

That's how the clique works darkman, that's all they do, trying to have a sensible debate with them is like swimming in treacle.

[darkman]

That's how the clique works darkman, that's all they do, trying to have a sensible debate with them is like swimming in treacle.

So it seems fred, ignorance is a very endearing quality to some governments.