WTC7 again.

[JAWS]

It's all about control of the Middle East and it's Oil? It certainly is, but not in the way some would have you believe!

In the coming period the attention of the masses will be concentrated on the struggle against imperialism. It is the duty of all genuine socialists to support this struggle of the Iraqi people. The tragedy is that there is no genuine workers' alternative that can direct this movement and give it a genuine proletarian content.

This vacuum leaves room for reactionary Islamic fundamentalism to develop. However, just across the border in Iran another form of Islamic fundamentalism has been in power fro more than two decades. They have solved none of the pressing problems of the Iranian masses. In the recent period there have been movements of the youth, in particular of the students, and these have inevitably come up against the mullahs in power. The workers of Iran have also suffered terribly under the regime of these mullahs. The Iraqi workers and youth must not forget this and they must draw all the necessary conclusions.

So long as capitalism and imperialism dominate the Middle East there will be no solution to the problems faced by the peoples of this region. The solutions to their problems are to be found on the road of the class struggle, socialism and internationalism. The region is rich in resources. There is no reason why these people should live in poverty and destitution. The problem is that the resources are controlled by the imperialists and their local corrupt stooges. The task is to overthrow all these reactionary regimes, take the resources and place them under the control of the workers of all these countries.

That can only be achieved through the building of a Socialist Federation of the whole of the Middle East.

Now I wonder who would really have an interest in keeping the unrest in Iraq going as long as possible and trying to spread it to surrounding areas?

Chavez has control of the Oil in Venezuela, Putin that of Russia and Africa is is kept in a state of constant unrest with certain countries blocking any attempts at prevention.
With a Socialist Federation (a USSR) of the Middle East controlling the Oil there then it's,
"Forward Brothers to the Revolution! We can bring down the whole Capitalist System and replace it with State Controlled Marxist Economies! All we have to do is keep everybody’s attention focused on America until it’s too late."
Who cares if it costs the lives of tens of thousands of women and children (or is it hundreds of thousands?) whilst starting the Revolution, that’s just an unfortunate side effect.

[fred]

Seeing there has been a reference made to WTC7 collapsing at near freefall speed, can I re-post my earlier question?

"Incidentally, knowing nothing about demolition, would a controlled demolition lead to a partial collapse of WTC7 (from the top of the building) some 6 seconds preceding the entire building coming down? Because that's what happened! I ask the question in all sincerity and wouldn't mind an input from somebody suitably qualified to answer. As I keep banging on about questions surrounding the building's structural integrity, it seems to me (a devout layman!) that the partial collapse scenario might be more consistent with a weakening of the structure rather than the controlled demolition theory."

Any theories on that anyone?

In a normal controlled demolition workmen go in and severely weaken the sructure by cutting part way through the steel girders with cutting torches, they then use explosives to blow out the support columns at the base of the building and gravity does the rest.

The theory is that with WTC7 thermite charges were used to cut through the girders to weaken the structure before explosives blew out the support columns at the base of the building.

There is no dispute that the building was weakened, it fell down, the only question is what weakened it.

[fred]

Well you would get more help if you compared like with like. The pools of molten metal which you are suggesting are truely massive, as shown on the fake photo. The molten part when cutting with oxy-acetylene is about the size of a thimble.

I didn't see any massive pools of molten metal in the photo at all, they would be under the ground.

[Rheghead]

I didn't see any massive pools of molten metal.

So there were no large pools of molten metal several weeks later? Glad that one is sorted then.

[MadPict]

Most demo jobs require weeks/months of preparation - the building which is so often used as an example of dropping a structure into its own footprint took 4 months to prep. So all the work required to prep WTC7 went unnoticed by the 100's of workers going in and out of the building everyday?

Or perhaps they did it at night time disguised as cleaners? And the 1000's of pounds of explosives was smuggled in in their lunch boxes?...

[scotsboy]

Most demo jobs require weeks/months of preparation - the building which is so often used as an example of dropping a structure into its own footprint took 4 months to prep. So all the work required to prep WTC7 went unnoticed by the 100's of workers going in and out of the building everyday?

Or perhaps they did it at night time disguised as cleaners? And the 1000's of pounds of explosives was smuggled in in their lunch boxes?...

No the prep work was carried out by Ninja Turtles who used the NY Sewer system to access the buildings - hence nobody ever saw them.

[fred]

Most demo jobs require weeks/months of preparation - the building which is so often used as an example of dropping a structure into its own footprint took 4 months to prep. So all the work required to prep WTC7 went unnoticed by the 100's of workers going in and out of the building everyday?

Or perhaps they did it at night time disguised as cleaners? And the 1000's of pounds of explosives was smuggled in in their lunch boxes?...

There were men in overalls carrying things into the WTC buildings in the weeks before 9/11, the people who worked there were told they were replacing network cables. If the men had badges supplied by the Kuwaiti owned security firm, with strong ties to the Bush family, in charge of security for the WTC then why would anyone question them?

[MadPict]

So this is your defence? Men in overalls? Which buildings? From which companies? What were they doing? What were they carrying? What was in their lunch boxes? Were they Arab looking? Did they stand in dark corners muttering about fuses or thermite?

Come on red, spool out the expanation that they were involved in a huge plot to destroy the WTC buildings on 9/11! Just saying "There were men in overalls carrying things into the WTC buildings in the weeks before 9/11...blah blah blah" is not good enough. Did you see them? Were they observed by the same person over these weeks? Name that person.

Give us concrete and steel evidence, but only if we can wrap a layer of thermite around it...

Muahahahahahaaaa

[scorrie]

But this is not a court of law.

Err, and a Banana is not a Frog.

This is about evaluating the strength of your evidence and it seems pretty logical to compare it to what would be good enough to satisfy the Legal World.

Again your response is desperate.

Here is one thing I would guarantee and that is that you would be laughed out of any court in the land in the same way that you are creating hilarity on this forum with your Fantasy Island mutterings.

Case closed.

[fred]

So this is your defence? Men in overalls? Which buildings? From which companies? What were they doing? What were they carrying? What was in their lunch boxes? Were they Arab looking? Did they stand in dark corners muttering about fuses or thermite?

Come on red, spool out the expanation that they were involved in a huge plot to destroy the WTC buildings on 9/11! Just saying "There were men in overalls carrying things into the WTC buildings in the weeks before 9/11...blah blah blah" is not good enough. Did you see them? Were they observed by the same person over these weeks? Name that person.

His name was Scott Forbes.

[Rheghead]

Referring to the photo of the cut steel. Perhaps Rheghead could explain what the slag from an oxyacetylene cut might look like? Maybe he might also know why so much sulphur was found in the rubble? Any ideas?

Is the case closed on why the tritium levels were 7x higher than the standard natural acceptable level?

Yes, molten steel from oxyacetylene looks exactly like in the fireman/stanchion photo, not what you wanted to pass off as 'pools of molten steel'

As far as the sulphur, are you refering to sulphur in its native form or compounds sulphates or sulphites?

If you are refering to compounds of sulphur then any amount of materials from concrete to plastics and rubbers can explain things, especially burnt rubbers use sulphurous fillers in their composition.

If you are refering to native sulphur, then it was used in the building industry to anchor bolts into stone or concrete until it was phased out on health reasons.

As for the tritium levels, there can be any number reasons for its existence. Actually, 7 times the natural background levels isn't a lot, (given that there is a difference between natural and anthropogenic backgrounds). This can easily be explained by having a nuclear reactor nearby, tritium discharges are a perfectly normal part of reactor operation. You may be surprised to know that the Pentland Firth can have Tritium levels many times higher than natural levels, I'm still healthy you will be pleased to know...

Slightly more informed than you bargained for eh? And I haven't searched Wiki either...

No, the case is still burst wide open Scorrie as thousands of responders and New Yorkers are dying from numerous types of cancers and will continue to do so for the next generation but, they are mostly ailing with blood cancers otherwise known as leukaemia caused by low levels of white blood cells which is exactly what exposure to radiation (including tritium which is a radioactive isotope) does to the human body. As proven horrifically in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do thousands of people dying from abnormally high rates of cancer hold any evidence for you Scorrie?

Thermates' nowt in the scheme of things. Ever hear of Deuterium-Tritium fusion? Thermonuclear explosive devices? Or was it from the tritium contained in the airplanes parts or police equipment lost? We already knew that two planes crashed into the towers. So, if tritium from the plane would be an issue, why didn't they send them in with the proper equipment? Why are hundreds of the responders dying from radiation causal like symptoms? Why is noone paying any attention to them? Why does Silverstein get nearly 8 billion dollars in insurance cover and the responders and true heroes of 9/11 none?!?

Do you think that tritium has the radioactive properties to create such clusters of cancers given that what you say is true? Tritium is actually only just classed as a ionising isotope. At 7 times above natural background levels then you have to look for other reasons. Perhaps it was all the silicosis effects from all the rubble?

roy, your 'explanations' get weirder and wierder! Next!

[Rheghead]

Just how did these two gigantic buildings disappear into a 7 storey hole leaving only 30 foot piles of rubble above ground? Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the best way one might do this?

Good packing. The towers were designed for maximum internal space with most of the load on the outer edge and central areas. The thing just collapsed, plus a lot of the dust spread over a wide area.

First off, manmade nuclear reactors are not "normal" in any sense of the matter. 7x is alot if it is 7x the normal recorded levels. So is 7x more alot if the normal levels are extremely high say like "a thousand times" higher than the average normal. So, all the recorded abnormal levels of blood cancers of persons involved with the 9/11 event is just an anomaly then? Tritium exposure wouldn't cause this you say?

Define normal please, but yes, I would say it is not normal to have an indepth knowledge of radioactive substances, so you are excused for thinking that a 7 fold increase on natural H3 levels could cause lots of cancers. As far as I know, white blood cells attack foreign bodies that enter the blood. There were lots of people that breathed in dust or it entered eyes and such, I am not medically educated but I think it is quite feasible that the drop in white blood cells could be explained by the invasion of silica into the blood. That is a guess or I am purely hypothesising.
Next!

[MadPict]

RoyFred,

Scott Forbes - yet another regular in the CT bandwagon. Have to do better than one person who hasn't been linked to the CT brigade.

NOT independent enough as a witness.

Scott Forbes also worked in the south tower, which still leaves the other two buildings unexplained, without a single witness to explain how hundreds of technicians could have placed thousands of explosive charges, without any of the security, workers, or bomb sniffing dogs noticing.

Furthermore, in an interview, with Killtown, a pro-conspiracy blog no less, Scott Forbes directly contradicts Ben Fountain's account (emphasis mine).

KT: Besides the "power down" the weekend before 9/11, was there any other unusual activity going on related to the WTC? There was one guy, Ben Fountain, who worked on the 47 floor of the WTC 2 who said there was an unusual amount of evacuation drills. Did you experience any of those?

SF: We had regular fire/evacuation drills, but not an unusual number.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/ben-fountain-meet-scott-forbes.html

Next!

Do you enjoy scouring the interwebnetland for more Truthseeker diarrhoea?...

[MadPict]

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the best way one might do this?

Why should we? You seem to have the whole day sewn up - just read what the rest of the crazies write about 9/11 - the truth is out there, but don't ask the Truthseekers to provide it. They just provide their warped version of the facts which is actually a disgraceful slur on the memories of all those who died on that day....

[Rheghead]

They just provide their warped version of the facts which is actually a disgraceful slur on the memories of all those who died on that day....

Well said, I agree entirely, how low can they go?

[fred]

RoyFred,

Scott Forbes - yet another regular in the CT bandwagon. Have to do better than one person who hasn't been linked to the CT brigade.

NOT independent enough as a witness.

He was there, you were not.

Next!
Scott Forbes also worked in the south tower, which still leaves the other two buildings unexplained, without a single witness to explain how hundreds of technicians could have placed thousands of explosive charges, without any of the security, workers, or bomb sniffing dogs noticing.

What bomb sniffing dogs, they were all removed five days before 9/11.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...,1255660.story

[Rheghead]

What bomb sniffing dogs, they were all removed five days before 9/11.

Incorrect. That is more misinformation. Not convinced? Take a look at the link below.

http://www.our.homewithgod.com/mkcathy/sirius.html

Next!

[MadPict]

He was there, you were not.

No he wasn't - he was at home.

KT: Were you at home on 9/11? Can you tell us what you were doing up to the time you heard about the 1st plane crash?

SF: I was at home having coffee when I heard the 1st plane hit the North tower. I thought it was a car crash on the street below (I lived on the 15th floor) and so I went to the window and opened the blind to look down (the blinds were closed due to the bright sunshine) and there in front of me I saw the smoke coming from the North Tower.

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/12/scott-forbes-interview.html

Next....

[JAWS]

Now, now MadPict and Rheghead, just put them out of their misery. You both know full well that the towers were both weakened on the weekend before the collapses.
They are obviously totally unaware that it was George Bush disguised as Maxwell with his Magic Hammer who did itso why don't you tell them!

Well, they are so desperate to accept any kind of invention in the hope that people will believe it was Bush.
Personally, I favour it being the Big, Bad Wolf huffing and puffing which blew them all down.

The pair of you really must learn how to treat their "explanations" with the seriousness they deserve! Next they will be telling us it was a Klingon Bird of Prey which was able to fire whilst cloaked!

[darkman]

Jaws shows some of his more intelligent debating skills.