The Dounreay Borealis

**Big Gaz** · 07-Mar-14, 16:55

Guess this would explain the strange glow emanating from Dounreay at night

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/po...-after-3215798

This is the crowd that many want to keep instead of going for independence. What more proof do you need to see the underhand measures, deceit and willful neglect? They have nothing but utter contempt for Scotland and the sooner we wake up and see it, the better we will be for it!

**sids** · 07-Mar-14, 18:38

Originally Posted by Big Gaz

Guess this would explain the strange glow emanating from Dounreay at night

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/po...-after-3215798

This is the crowd that many want to keep instead of going for independence. What more proof do you need to see the underhand measures, deceit and willful neglect? They have nothing but utter contempt for Scotland and the sooner we wake up and see it, the better we will be for it!

Who are "they?"

**Big Gaz** · 07-Mar-14, 19:29

well if you read the story you would see that there has been a coverup by the current govt...so "they" are Cameron on his cronies!

**Squirrels** · 07-Mar-14, 20:55

I think I need to point out Big Gaz that the story is actually about HMS Vulcan site NOT Dounreay (despite headline in newspaper) therefore your own heading of Dounreay Borealis is misleading. Too many times people try to give Dounreay a bad press without knowing all the facts. I'm not saying that you are doing this but the newspaper clearly is and we need obviously to be careful about how much of what we read is believable and accurate if they can't even get the site/location correct

**sids** · 07-Mar-14, 21:19

Originally Posted by Big Gaz

well if you read the story you would see that there has been a coverup by the current govt...so "they" are Cameron on his cronies!

Is their not telling everyone the latest findings on the performance of their nuclear submarine engines a cover-up?

If so, that's a great big shame because such cover-ups will happen again and continue, everywhere there is armed force.

**RN1995** · 07-Mar-14, 21:51

Just a point that Vulcan is not a HMS and hasn't been Her Majesty's Ship since 1981 since then it has been referred to as Vulcan Naval Reactor Test Establishment (NRTE), although beside the point.

On the actual point however I think it is completely ridiculous that something like this can happen and be held back, have read comments elsewhere that it is a matter of National Security and shouldn't be known, what a lot of crap that is, and the Scottish Govt only finding out until mins before it is exposed, how can that be the way to communicate between "one nation"!

**sids** · 07-Mar-14, 22:09

Originally Posted by RN1995

the Scottish Govt only finding out until mins before it is exposed, how can that be the way to communicate between "one nation"!

Could it be that they wouldn't trust the idiots in the Scottish "government" with the day of the week, never mind a military secret?

**Big Gaz** · 07-Mar-14, 22:27

Originally Posted by sids

Could it be that they wouldn't trust the idiots in the Scottish "government" with the day of the week, never mind a military secret?

Could it be that you are only happy when you are trolling on here? everything i see from you is just a dig. makes no odds what the subject is, you always disagree and have a dig. If you don't like the post then don't comment on it!

**sids** · 07-Mar-14, 23:09

Originally Posted by Big Gaz

Could it be that you are only happy when you are trolling on here? everything i see from you is just a dig. makes no odds what the subject is, you always disagree and have a dig. If you don't like the post then don't comment on it!

What exactly did you want, when you posted a news item and some heavily prejudiced opinion, laced with indignant rhetoric?

Why don't you have a little go at answering my queries? Or at growing up, if it's not too late?

**Big Gaz** · 07-Mar-14, 23:38

Originally Posted by sids

What exactly did you want, when you posted a news item and some heavily prejudiced opinion, laced with indignant rhetoric?

Why don't you have a little go at answering my queries? Or at growing up, if it's not too late?

oh it's getting personal now eh...you just can't resist having a dig can you?. run along now, little children should be seen and not read on the org!

**Alrock** · 08-Mar-14, 00:48

Originally Posted by sids

Could it be that they wouldn't trust the idiots in the Scottish "government" with the day of the week, never mind a military secret?

What makes it a military secret?
What would be the military consequences of them just telling us in the first place?
Would Russia suddenly try to invade us because of this?

**sids** · 08-Mar-14, 11:32

Originally Posted by Alrock

What makes it a military secret?
What would be the military consequences of them just telling us in the first place?
Would Russia suddenly try to invade us because of this?

In the world of defence, everything's a secret!

They would start out from the viewpoint that the information might be prejudicial to "us" or useful to "them," so they have a good long debate and much passing of memos over desks, before telling you and me some of the info. We'll never know everything about the metallurgy or physics that went funny in the reactor because, at a basic level, they don't help other powers to make, run or maintain nuclear submarines.

Some information went to SEPA, in confidence. You may think it's odd that SEPA keeps secrets from the First Minister (if they really did- Salmond may just be acting as though it's all news to him), but civil servants such as SEPA are appropriately security vetted. Politicians are democratically elected, which means some right dodgy types can get in.

As an extreme example, we used to have Communist MPs in Scotland. How far should they have been trusted with strategic Cold War information?

**sids** · 08-Mar-14, 11:36

Originally Posted by Big Gaz meant to say

I'm the sort of person who has difficulty taking back what I dish out.

...........

**Tubthumper** · 08-Mar-14, 19:25

Was the actual leak a big deal? I can understand the SG getting the hump about not being told but I often wonder just how dangerous these atomic leaks actually are.They seem to occur quite frequently though...

**sids** · 08-Mar-14, 19:51

Originally Posted by Tubthumper

Was the actual leak a big deal? I can understand the SG getting the hump about not being told but I often wonder just how dangerous these atomic leaks actually are.They seem to occur quite frequently though...

From the BBC reports, it appears that activity from the fuel got into the coolant. That may have been what they wanted- to see what point it happened at. Or maybe the fuel integrity or cladding was disappointing in its performance- who knows?
Activity in the coolant doesn't sound all that serious- you wouldn't make tea with it, even before this "leak."

When this sort of confusion is on the BBC website, it's hard to know.

The Scottish government has said the MoD requested that Sepa not make the information more widely known for security reasons, but the MoD has indicated this was not the case.

**Green_not_greed** · 11-Mar-14, 13:45

At least the BBC have the site details correct - interesting reading and clarifies a few queries in this forum

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...lands-26527514

As far as I'm aware detecting a leak like this is exactly why Vulcan was built in the first place ! Finding potential reactor issues by running Vulcan's reactor ahead of those at sea avoids those leaks being found on an "on duty" submarine. Its the whole point of the facility.

Regarding Alex Salmonds wee outburst, defence matters are not devolved. Their reaction and lack of understanding is exactly what you'd expect from die-hard anti-nuclear campaigners. It was a minor leak and exactly what the facility was built to deal with. No impact on the public or workforce, normal business I'd say.

The £120M price tag to refit HMS Vanguard being touted is rather interesting, though. I think there's a trick been missed here somewhere. The cost seems light compared to previous new cores. And I assume that the three others will also have to be refitted. FYI all you ever wanted to know about Vanguard..... may explain what I mean on the price tag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard-class_submarine

Happy reading !

**susie** · 11-Mar-14, 14:00

Thanks to you G not G for the fascinating information on your link. I am always pleased when someone provides that little bit more. Cheers.

**Tubthumper** · 11-Mar-14, 18:14

GnG you make it sound like there was something wrong with being anti-nuclear. It's a perfectly legitimate point of view and I'd hate to think we would belittle the beliefs of others. When you think about it, only someone with a few bits missing (or who had a vested interest) would be actively pro-nuke.

**sids** · 11-Mar-14, 18:51

Originally Posted by Tubthumper

GnG you make it sound like there was something wrong with being anti-nuclear. It's a perfectly legitimate point of view and I'd hate to think we would belittle the beliefs of others. When you think about it, only someone with a few bits missing (or who had a vested interest) would be actively pro-nuke.

No-one would say that exploding H-bombs are nice.

Whether we should have them is a bigger question.

**ducati** · 11-Mar-14, 23:43

Originally Posted by Tubthumper

GnG you make it sound like there was something wrong with being anti-nuclear. It's a perfectly legitimate point of view and I'd hate to think we would belittle the beliefs of others. When you think about it, only someone with a few bits missing (or who had a vested interest) would be actively pro-nuke.

I'm actively pro-nuke. I'm looking for bits missing now. I have a list of people to nuke. Unfortunately many are within the UK.

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