I give up and throw in the towel.

[RagnarRocks]

I was thinking the same thing myself today Ducati, maybe having served we've seen first hand the results of what can happen,everyone else just sit and think Oooh no we are far too civilised for that to happen here. Its all fine until the fringe elements don't get their own way then its look out time. At the end of the day whichever way the vote goes I will still be British.

[ducati]

It sounds like you have a misapprehension about me, I've never been in the military although family members have (in fact I am the first male in my family for at least 4 generations not to have been). However, tearing a country apart is never going to be the fluffy bunny process some seem to think. I'm old enough and ugly enough to understand that!

[RagnarRocks]

My apologies and I wouldn't say you're that ugly lol

[ducati]

Ha! do want to borrow my glasses?

[RagnarRocks]

Everything is relative :0))

[AJacksonMan]

I am a yes person, but to me independence is a shot at gaining slightly more representative and perhaps even an answerable government. Due to the fact that MPs have to live in Westminster to fulfil their parliamentary duties means that far out communities such as ours don't get represented. This isn't the MP's fault it is a problem with the system and the way it is run. We know the democratic capitalist process rarely works because of the number of independences eg Ireland that have been won off of the back of near revolution. The BBC are feeding the general population better together oriented rubbish. They are happy to say 'we need answers' when if hey got them they wouldn't broadcast them. We have had sod all from the No side about their plans to rescue the UK from financial ruin, which is it's clear path. The UK is a corrupt, unrepresentative and archaic institution that needs sorting out big time, independence is a step in the right direction!

[Big Gaz]

I am a yes person, but to me independence is a shot at gaining slightly more representative and perhaps even an answerable government. Due to the fact that MPs have to live in Westminster to fulfil their parliamentary duties means that far out communities such as ours don't get represented. This isn't the MP's fault it is a problem with the system and the way it is run. We know the democratic capitalist process rarely works because of the number of independences eg Ireland that have been won off of the back of near revolution. The BBC are feeding the general population better together oriented rubbish. They are happy to say 'we need answers' when if hey got them they wouldn't broadcast them. We have had sod all from the No side about their plans to rescue the UK from financial ruin, which is it's clear path. The UK is a corrupt, unrepresentative and archaic institution that needs sorting out big time, independence is a step in the right direction!

hear hear!!!

[RagnarRocks]

Another day, another hole blown in Alex Salmond’s case for breaking up Britain. The IFS has today published its estimates (based on the OBR’s) for Scottish oil and gas revenues, and they’re less than half those of the SNP administration in Edinburgh.Salmond forecast oil and gas revenues of between £6.8 billion and £7.9 billion in 2016-17. The IFS puts it at £3.3 billion. Salmond’s best-case scenario for 2017-18 has Scotland with a deficit of 1.0 per cent of GDP; the IFS’s figures suggest that’ll be closer to 3.6 per cent of GDP. A country like Britain can ride out such fluctuations, but Salmond may find he’s swapping rule from London by rule by OPEC. On the basis of these new figures, the IFS has calculated that cutting an independent Scotland would have to keep cutting – if it didn’t, its deficit in 2018-19 would more than double. Salmond has complained long and loud about cuts made by the coalition in areas like welfare, but he should not pretend the fiscal options of an independent Scotland would be any more attractive.

[Partan]

A hole is blown in RR's argument. The explosive was in his parentheses. I quote "estimates (based on the OBR's)". We all know that the OBR is a creation of the Treasury controlled by George Osborne. Their predictions are always compromised by pre-knowledge of the answers expected by their employer. Garbage in, garbage out still resonates.

[squidge]

And today we have this http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-...iness-26443014 which says that Scottish Buziness Confidence is at a record high.

So the last few weeks we have seen the Westminster government tell us we have a significant amount of oil, we have had a credit rating agency tell us we should expect a top credit rating even without oil and we have had this report showing how high business confidence is in Scotland. Add to that the Ernst and Young report which says that Scotland is successfully attracting inward investment - in fact it is 2nd only to London and we have a picture of a country well placed for Independence. As for the OBR's predictions on oil revenue.... We'll it is worth pointing out that their forecasts have been criticised by the industry for being far too cautious, however 3.3 billion into Scotland's purse and the power to make our own decisions on budgets is more than we have now.

So we would have to cut spending. There is already a plan to cut spending, on Trident, on the high speed rail link, on London sewers: we will no longer have to spend millions on mitigating welfare reforms like the bedroom tax (this appears to be costing Scotland over £200 million alone) we will be saving around a billion on defence and STILL spending more on defence in Scotland than Westminster does.

So "only" £3 billion? Oh it's SUCH a burden!

[Mrs Bradey]

And today we have this http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-...iness-26443014 which says that Scottish Buziness Confidence is at a record high. So the last few weeks we have seen the Westminster government tell us we have a significant amount of oil, we have had a credit rating agency tell us we should expect a top credit rating even without oil and we have had this report showing how high business confidence is in Scotland. Add to that the Ernst and Young report which says that Scotland is successfully attracting inward investment - in fact it is 2nd only to London and we have a picture of a country well placed for Independence. As for the OBR's predictions on oil revenue.... We'll it is worth pointing out that their forecasts have been criticised by the industry for being far too cautious, however 3.3 billion into Scotland's purse and the power to make our own decisions on budgets is more than we have now. So we would have to cut spending. There is already a plan to cut spending, on Trident, on the high speed rail link, on London sewers: we will no longer have to spend millions on mitigating welfare reforms like the bedroom tax (this appears to be costing Scotland over £200 million alone) we will be saving around a billion on defence and STILL spending more on defence in Scotland than Westminster does. So "only" £3 billion? Oh it's SUCH a burden!

blimey, you only been at work 20 min and you on a break already! tut tut tut!

[RagnarRocks]

Mrs Bradey .....My words of the day are Liar & Hypocrite ...:0)) not sure why I just felt they sat well together today

[squidge]

I know Mrs Bradey and guess what, I am still in bed too. How shocking is that lol.

[Partan]

Mrs Bradey .....My words of the day are Liar & Hypocrite ...:0)) not sure why I just felt they sat well together today

Congratulations RR. At a stroke you have raised the level of the debate. What has poor Mrs Bradey done that persuades you to describe her as a Liar and a Hypocrite?

[RagnarRocks]

Congratulations RR. At a stroke you have raised the level of the debate. What has poor Mrs Bradey done that persuades you to describe her as a Liar and a Hypocrite?

Mrs Bradey is not the one I'm referring to Partan, maybe I should of phrased it better my apologies for any misconception

[squidge]

And Im still in bed lol

[Tubthumper]

Blimey, RR and Mrs B flung oot! I thought something smelt funny.
Anyhoo, don't give up and throw in the towel anyone, the debate should improve as we get closer in and the negotiation points start to become clear.

[weezer 316]

Yeah the OBR's figures are defo skewed towards a no and you wouldn't catch an honest nationalist quoting them

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/11/9348/18

Just count the number of times the OBR is mentioned in here.

Economic case is lost (amazingly as this was the strongest card), and that goes alongside the currency debacle and the EU lies. No wonder the polls have widened in the past year.

Sooner this is over the better.

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questi...country-1#line

[Phill]

Crikey, ban happy around here recently! Seeing as the Crimea has called for a referendum vote on the 16, and will be Russian by the 17th (if not before). Why did wee Eck drag things out?

[ducati]

Blimey, RR and Mrs B flung oot! I thought something smelt funny.
Anyhoo, don't give up and throw in the towel anyone, the debate should improve as we get closer in and the negotiation points start to become clear.

What smelt funny?