Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by luskentyre
Honestly - it's like trying to reason with a housebrick, When you've read (and understood) my comment, then feel free to reply.
Yes
No
1K.Orger
If they keep to the stunning rules etc that a "normal" slaughterhouse has to do ..whats the difference to the animal being dispatched normally..stunned n slit and an animal being dispatched normally with a priest saying a prayer? There are ways and means to keep the religious beliefs and the meat halal without contrivining the norm practice then its acceptable ...but without stunning its inhumane and that is what will happen if banned and it goes underground...and if it goes underground the meat may not fit the criteria for fit for consumption with drugs administered (needed for vet stuff)to the beast within the time limits for the drugs to be excreted etc as there isnt any accountability in blackmarket meat.
Life is too short to spend it in beige underwear!
.Orger
Honestly - it's like trying to reason with a housebrick, When you've read (and understood) my comment, then feel free to reply.
1K.Orger
Who is WE in your comment?The org?
W.A.T.P.
.Orger
Oh no one special, just the rest of the human race... How about you try and expand your frame of reference eh?
1K.Orger
Clearly the halal and kosher eating folks do not find it unacceptable so your entire human race comment is seriously flawed
W.A.T.P.
.Orger
My thoughts exactly Dadie
I don't like the traditional halal slaughter any more than the next person but keep it in the slaughter houses where it can be monitored and improved upon and there is hope to improve it over time. Drive it underground and all hope of controlling and monitoring it is gone.
There is also the attack on a religion to consider. It could be said that some would attack the practise because they are racist and any handle on that will be useful. How much Danish bacon does Denmark export a year? What will the income from that be worth? And coinncidentally a ban on halal slaughter will not affect it at all
The point of posting the clip is not to prove that halal slaughter is nice and fluffy, it was to show that there is bad slaughter everywhere, no matter if religion is involved. And to touch a few consciences of those who like to have a stab at halal slaughter whilst they themselves tuck into cheap bacon and chicken believing their halo is secure.
Takeaway food only exists where cheap meat can be sourced. The market is too competitive for the owners to source their meat ethically. So if you eat takeaway from a takeaway that has any meat in it you are likely fuelling the problem. Hot dogs, hamburgers, McDonalds, Chinese food and meat pies and other pastries, they all contain meat bought as cheaply as possible. Meat from animals that possibly had a much worse life and slaughter than a lot of halal meat.
There are Jewish and Muslim people everywhere and not being able to source Kosher and halal meat LEGALLY surely has to be a step in the wrong direction. Unless your name is Hitler.
If I had a disabled vegan in my care and I forced him to eat meat and meat products or do without I would quite rightly be slammed for it. Kosher and Halal are law for those who observe it.
In answer to the question is religion more important than animal welfare? No I don't think it is more important but I do think if the authorities worked with Muslims and Jews then a compromise could be reached. One where animal welfare, which is important to us, and religion which is important to them, could be balanced more fairly and effectively than a ban.
Last edited by Southern-Gal; 22-Feb-14 at 09:44.
Banned
Do you honestly think that animals deemed for halal slaughter have had a better life than others? Most poor looking weak lambs get bought cheaply for halal slaughter as that market won't pay premium!! The prime goes for proper meat. Perhaps you should take the halo off halal and be realistic. How's about female circumsision, is that acceptable because of a specific religious belief??? Get a grip.
Banned
That's the point! HALAL slaughter "Zabihah" is NOT the same as normal slaughtering practice there are two main differences. firstly Allah's name is pronounced in a prayer at the point of cutting, secondly, the animal is bleed to death Fully CONSCIOUS! you tell me the ways and means to carry out "normal" practice slaughtering and still have an acceptable HALAL meat product!?!
.Orger
easy answer . nope . we cook at home . eat at home unless were dining out . i/e resturaunt .hotel .
but i see your point .
Banned
If halal meat was the only meat available in the shops I would not eat it or buy it. I eat take away very rarely & choose a meal which I consider to be the most welfare friendly. I produce meat & I purposely do not send any livestock off around the Muslim & Jewish festive periods. Welfare & Slaughter practices should be maintained.
Banned
Well well, sotherngal you seem to have back peddled faster than your average solicitor!!! you now seem to accept that HALAL slaughtering is not acceptable in the long term. it should be banned and church leaders should be told it is not acceptable kill animals in thus manner. a complete ban on the import and sale of HALAL meat is the only solution! with electronic tagging and modern record keeping in this country it should easily be possible to ensure all animals are slaughtered at proper facilities and correctly!! there should be NO COMPROMISE with animal welfare to the end!
Last edited by Mrs Bradey; 22-Feb-14 at 11:02.
Banned
exactly jax ! not only should religious belief not come before animal rights, it should not come before human rights either! but as mi16 states what's acceptable in one country may be deplored in another!
.Orger
No back peddling at all.
I do not think a ban will help animal welfare, in fact I think it could make things worse for them
Horses being shipped abroad for slaughter was stopped a good few years ago and that should have been a good thing except it is not. There have never been more cruelty cases in the horse world than there is now. And those that do go across to the continent for killing now go on an even longer trip via Ireland on an even longer trip. The shipping alive ban was brought in to improve welfare for horses and it has made things a whole lot worse
Banned
live transport for slaughter animals is not good for animal welfare. Anyone who has experience of this knows the stress & weight losses. Animals should be slaughtered at the nearest facility. Just because the UK doesn't eat horse meat it doesn't mean & our standards are high for slaughter, that its ethical to live ship abroad. Out of site out of mind perhaps? Poor welfare of horses in this country as too many are being bred. Its not humane to transport any animal hundreds of miles just to have it slaughtered.No back peddling at all.I do not think a ban will help animal welfare, in fact I think it could make things worse for themHorses being shipped abroad for slaughter was stopped a good few years ago and that should have been a good thing except it is not. There have never been more cruelty cases in the horse world than there is now. And those that do go across to the continent for killing now go on an even longer trip via Ireland on an even longer trip. The shipping alive ban was brought in to improve welfare for horses and it has made things a whole lot worse
.Orger
Could not agree more!
But they are being shipped abroad through Ireland. And they are suffering in their thousands, loads of cob bred horses, far too many of them suffering starvation and hunger because there is no place for them now and all the pet homes are either full or skint.
Banned
as we in the UK have no powers over what happens in Ireland, your point, however correct, is irrelevant. I blame the indiscriminate breeding of horses, dogs and cats, for the surplus of these animals. they fill up rescue facilities, and are eventually discarded like rubbish.
.Orger
You're obviously struggling a bit so I'll try and put this simply for you... Imagine your neighbour was in the habit of beating up his wife - would that be acceptable? None of your business? I'm sure wife-beaters around the world wouldn't see a problem with it but that doesn't mean others have to sit by and let it happen. They can object and regard it as uncivilised. They could even intervene because they regard it as abhorrent.
As I mentioned before (and you conveniently ignored), many organisations exist which seek to allow all species the same commonly accepted rights across the globe. Simple borders cannot be regarded as an excuse for cruelty or abuse of any kind. Let me ask you a question - are you perfectly happy for some cultures to actively promote female genital mutilation? Is the subjugation of any individual or group perfectly acceptable in your books as long as it doesn't happen in your house?
Banned
I sort if agree, but if we use the wife beating analogy, and in the context of horses exported through Ireland. we need the co-operation of the wife (Ireland) in order to be able to intervene and assist, or prosecute!
Banned
All this is nothing on the standards of upbringing, welfare, slaughter and health of all the meat that is illicitly imported into this country for religious purposes.
Banned
I totally agree! there is all sorts of tropical "jungle meat" smuggled into the UK , as you say. the hygiene and welfare standards or lack of, will never be fully known! the banning of the slaughter, sale and import of HALAL meat in the UK would be a good step forward. perhaps religious leaders in the UK could be made to understand and accept this, as being better for the animals! but I doubt they will listen!
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