Denmark bans Kosher and Halal meat.

[Southern-Gal]

In recent times many people who eat halal meat have moved on and accept that modern slaughter methods are better for the animals. The slaughter house we used to use treated them in the exact same way as non halal except the chap from the mosque was there to pay whilst they were done. Times have moved on and there have been improvements.

[_Ju_]

........ The animal must NOT BE UNCONSCIOUS. . .....

like many catholics use contraception, many muslims do not require the animals to retain consciousness and allow stunning prior to exsanguinating the animal.
Religious dictates are not dogma. If they were, children and women would be property and slavery the rule of law. Halal and kosher slaughter need to change. The historical reasons for it no longer exist.

[mi16]

this thread has nothing to do with Denmark. rheghead merely asks, "do animal rights come before rights to observe religion"? simple question and no mention of what the Danes wish to do. what is your opinion?

As all religion is a steaming pile of horse manure which is the root of a lot of the worlds troubles then obviously the animals treatment prior to death should be of the upmost importance.

[Mrs Bradey]

like many catholics use contraception, many muslims do not require the animals to retain consciousness and allow stunning prior to exsanguinating the animal.Religious dictates are not dogma. If they were, children and women would be property and slavery the rule of law. Halal and kosher slaughter need to change. The historical reasons for it no longer exist.

I think you will find that in many Muslim countries, this is exactly how women and children are viewed! in some cases the women being required to walk a set distance behind their man. those muslims that choose not to insist on unconsciousness during slaughter should be applauded, but they are not eating halal meat!

[bekisman]

Blinking heck, I'm fully with you Rheggy!

[luskentyre]

The Danes are in Denmark and can do as they please, it is none of our business or concern.A pointless poll

Really? Since when did geographical boundaries become a licence to do anything a country pleases?

It's only pointless if you're inherently insular in your thinking.

[mi16]

Really? Since when did geographical boundaries become a licence to do anything a country pleases? It's only pointless if you're inherently insular in your thinking.

See USA for further details, however before you fall off the high horse please take my post in context.

[Southern-Gal]

Banning halal slaughter will be a step in the wrong direction. It will go on unlicensed in the future. No license means no monitoring.
Embracing other religions into the slaughter trade is the way forward for people who want to eat halal meat and for the animals that they eat.
People who want to slate halal meat and all that it stands for should remember that their menu does not include pork. Pigs are quite possibly the worst treated farm animal there is at the moment. They are the most intelligent and they live in the most inhumane conditions. They are a forest animal forced to live mostly on concrete and they are omnivores deprived of what they crave. They also get the worst deal in the slaughter process. They have an electric current shot through their head to disable them whilst they are bled to death. If you like your bacon, ham, pork, sausages and pork pies how can you attack the slaughter of halal meat? Pigs scream their heads off when the probe goes on. Nobody knows how much they are conscious of or for how long.
This link is not for the faint hearted so so if you opt to watch it be warned it is very graphic. It is filmed in USA. It shows what non halal animals go through.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec7_1376787902

Unless you are growing your own meat, eggs and milk or are strictly vegan or source your animal food very meticulously and expensively and never ever eat out then you are probably guilty of worse than eating halal meat!

[Mrs Bradey]

In recent times many people who eat halal meat have moved on and accept that modern slaughter methods are better for the animals. The slaughter house we used to use treated them in the exact same way as non halal except the chap from the mosque was there to pay whilst they were done. Times have moved on and there have been improvements.

times may have moved on, and there may have been improvements / westernisation of some Muslim believers. The leaders of the Muslim faith still hold strict views, and ( just like the Pope for the Catholics ) will not soften their stronghold over their flocks. and quite rightly too, in my opinion. if you believe, you follow the rules. if you don't believe, you need not follow the rules! If you do not like ( because of your faith ) the way animals are slaughtered, ie, not by Zabihah then there is no Muslim law (or in any other faith ) that says "you must eat meat"! many people survive without eating meat, some as part if their religious belief!

[Mrs Bradey]

The link you posted, southern gal, was interesting. it shows bad practice in the USA. it is worth noting that most if these practices are illegal in the UK, as many of them are in the USA. there will always be people who abuse animals! one of the most distressing parts of the video was the killing of the FULLY CONSCIOUS cattle for HALAL meat! which is legal! but not in Denmark! so religion should not come before animal welfare!!!!

[luskentyre]

Really? Since when did geographical boundaries become a licence to do anything a country pleases?

It's only pointless if you're inherently insular in your thinking.

See USA for further details, however before you fall off the high horse please take my post in context.

Yet people constantly question the USA's involvement in world affairs and their policies... I can't recall anyone ever claiming it's no one else's business what the USA do! What I'm trying to say is, if something is considered "wrong", then it's immaterial which country (or city, or house) it happens in.

[mi16]

Yet people constantly question the USA's involvement in world affairs and their policies... I can't recall anyone ever claiming it's no one else's business what the USA do! What I'm trying to say is, if something is considered "wrong", then it's immaterial which country (or city, or house) it happens in.

What's wrong in one country is not necessarily wrong in another.

[Southern-Gal]

The link you posted, southern gal, was interesting. it shows bad practice in the USA. it is worth noting that most if these practices are illegal in the UK, as many of them are in the USA. there will always be people who abuse animals! one of the most distressing parts of the video was the killing of the FULLY CONSCIOUS cattle for HALAL meat! which is legal! but not in Denmark! so religion should not come before animal welfare!!!!

Yes it is in USA.
But how much meat is imported from countries with even worse standards for abattoirs?
Corned beef for instance, sold over here and probably in Denmark too.
No good banning halal slaughter if they are going to drive it underground or import halal slaughtered meat that had an even worse death. Better to deal with it head on, work with the people to improve standards.

I had a young hound die suddenly a few years back. I felt terrible as I had no idea why he had expired. Vet had a look to see what he had died of. Told me he had had a bleed, probably a weakness he already had and it had burst with the exertion of playing and running and if it was any consolation at all he had probably not known a thing, had been tired, drifted off in a sleep like state. Bleeding to death is not so bad, some suicides actually choose it. Being zapped through the head with electric cant be any better thats for sure.

What is needed is improved welfare conditions for all slaughter animals, not the targeting of a religion If the Danish authorities were setting out to improve slaughter across the board and were including halal slaughter that would be less controversial

[Mrs Bradey]

Yes it is in USA.But how much meat is imported from countries with even worse standards for abattoirs?Corned beef for instance, sold over here and probably in Denmark too.No good banning halal slaughter if they are going to drive it underground or import halal slaughtered meat that had an even worse death. Better to deal with it head on, work with the people to improve standards.I had a young hound die suddenly a few years back. I felt terrible as I had no idea why he had expired. Vet had a look to see what he had died of. Told me he had had a bleed, probably a weakness he already had and it had burst with the exertion of playing and running and if it was any consolation at all he had probably not known a thing, had been tired, drifted off in a sleep like state. Bleeding to death is not so bad, some suicides actually choose it. Being zapped through the head with electric cant be any better thats for sure.What is needed is improved welfare conditions for all slaughter animals, not the targeting of a religion If the Danish authorities were setting out to improve slaughter across the board and were including halal slaughter that would be less controversial

did you actually watch your link to the end? in the cattle section where they slaughtered cattle for HALAL meat by cutting its throat whilst fully CONSCIOUS , being left to stagger about in a very agitated state eventually falling to the floor and further thrashing about for sometime before expiring!! hardly drifting off in a sleep like state!! Britain has very high animal welfare standards and for that reason foreign meat should be avoided at all costs!

[Sparrow]

Southern Gal I watched your link, not surprised by the bad practice doesn't make for nice viewing. I think Denmark has taken a good step forward in banning halal. Im against halal slaughter its not anything to do with religion its not humane to slaughter without stunning first. As you also mentioned halal consumers seem to accept stunning & just say a prayer so I think that is a good way forward, but its not proper halal meat.

[Southern-Gal]

My point is they will not stop it they will simply stop seeing it. It will still go on. Just because the practise is no longer legal does not mean it wont happen.
If they worked with the religious leaders and agreed on a way forward, similar to the one used where we used to live the powers that be are more likely to improve the lot of the animals they eat. Do they think the people who eat halal meat in Denmark are going to go vegan? Or are they happy to import halal meat that had an even worse end?
Or do they want everyone who eats halal meat in Denmark to leave the country?
It is not realistic.

Molesting children is illegal. Does that mean there are no paedophiles? Or does it mean they do what they like behind closed doors?

[jacko]

well , if i see it marked as Halal or kosher meat i just wont buy it .full stop .

[Southern-Gal]

well , if i see it marked as Halal or kosher meat i just wont buy it .full stop .

Do you never eat takeaway?

[luskentyre]

What's wrong in one country is not necessarily wrong in another.

No, you missed my point completely. Regional boundaries are irrelevant when we perceive something as fundamentally wrong.

If decapitating babies was the norm in Denmark, you'd think that was fine then? None of our business? Where morals are concerned, I believe that being a human being takes precedence over being a citizen of a particular place. That's why organisations such as Amnesty International, Compassion in World Farming etc. etc. exist.

[mi16]

No, you missed my point completely. Regional boundaries are irrelevant when we perceive something as fundamentally wrong. If decapitating babies was the norm in Denmark, you'd think that was fine then? None of our business? Where morals are concerned, I believe that being a human being takes precedence over being a citizen of a particular place. That's why organisations such as Amnesty International, Compassion in World Farming etc. etc. exist.

What is wrong to one human is not necessarily wrong to another