"You don’t have a vote, but you do have a voice"

[RagnarRocks]

Ok so you've espoused a lot of figures but you've no proof any of that will change for all you know with the proposed plan for more lower paid immigrants the living standards of many Scots could plummet . Its all very well going on about how terrible everything is and spitting your dummy out when someone has the mendacity to ask how you can prove that things are going to be so much better .. Your proof of all these wonderous things to come are about realistic as me travelling at warp speed after A particularly pungent curry. Things may change they may improve or get worse you have no way of knowing as you cannot foresee the future no more than I. In the meantime all you are espousing is socialist propaganda with nothing based in the real world .. You can't really drop much of a pin between most of the Scottish Parties either so your point is null and void. There is as much opportunity to change things in the whole UK as there is in Scotland. Seems you're only interested in 5 million people not 65 million think of all the people with learning disabilities, cancer, homeless in the rest of the UK who don't seem to matter to you. Very small minded I thought we lived in a global society where everyone deserves a chance not just the 5 million you want to save. BTW mother Theresa didn't try break up India because she preferred one part over the other..you really should try travelling to some other parts of Europe to see the poverty Greece Spain Italy part of France some of the newer European countries your figures may reflect the Uk in one light but statistics are just that statistic easily manipulated to show whatever you wish them to. I'd suggest once again you've not seen civil unrest ,real poverty, famine or starvation all you read is statistics then run the country down.

[squidge]

Like you care! We arent going to agree Rags. Its just boring. My dummy is out the pram from earlier when you used my personal information which you had been given in the spirit of helpfulness to question my professional conduct. Im not taking you on any more I cant be bothered.

[RagnarRocks]

I haven't used any personal information about you on here. That is something you've dreamt up in the spirit trying to martyr yourself why not just accept you can't prove any of your assertions and be done its the far more adult approach. As it is your starting to sound like ECK wailing when someone calls your assertions to question. Once again you have no proof about anything you say about what an Independent Scotland might be like just pipe dreams.

[squidge]

Yeah i heard you... So you said

[RagnarRocks]

Yeah i heard you... So you said

Yup I clarified my statement unless you count yourself in it didn't apply to you. Unless once again you're going to use the infamous US again and speak as if you're the whole of the public sector and charity sector all rolled into one. That would be rather grandiose of you though !

Meanwhile back to the subject do you have any proof of this wonderous new independent Scotland and its limitless wealth that can afford all the things you keep proposing which aren't mentioned anywhere in the SNP white paper without running itself into a fiscal deficit that would make Portugal,Greece,Ireland and Spain's problems look insignificant.

[squidge]

Your comments were aimed at me and as calcuated to "have a dig" as kommisar is. If you want to persuade yourself that you were NOT having a dig on ya go. I dont believe you.


Oh and as for Scotlands Future what do you care as long as you are alright Jack.

[RagnarRocks]

That is your opinion which you're entitled to but it seems to me that your failure to be able to adequately convince people of your political agenda you're now trying to play the victim card. Nothing unusual for people of a certain highly political persuasion. What you're now trying to do is turn this into a personal issue rather than political.

My nest won't be feathered any more or less whatever happens can you honestly say the same.

[squidge]

Im no victim rags. You are the one making personal
Digs and what does the nest feathered comment mean.

[RagnarRocks]

Once again you totally ignore the debate and refuse to state your verifiable proof about this alleged new wonderful Independent Scotland and where all the money is going to come from to fund all the social engineering you've proposed. Or infact how as a voter we are going to be able to influence politicians anymore than we do now.

[squidge]

And you ignored my question. What do you mean about my nest being feathered?

Forget it I have figured it out....

Of course you'd like more social spending your job depends on it so who wouldn't want all these things when they have a vested interest. )

Yet another personal dig. I started this job in April 2013 and My contract is done in September 2014 honey, ill neither be better nor worse off. As i have worked in the public sector, private sector, third sector, have skills for self employment and would be happy to be a stay at home mum again, im not that worried!

[RagnarRocks]

So there you go more hypocrisy one minute you claim I'm putting your private details out when I just mention the third sector with no reference to you, now your blasting your own private Info out for all and sundry to see. Try sticking to the debate its about independence not you :0))

Noted you've tacitly avoided the big questions.

Where is all the Money going to come from ????

How will Voters influence MPs anymore than they do now ???

What will low cost immigration do to the average wage of Scottish workers ???

You do get more like Mr Salmond when asked a difficult question attack rather than answer.

I will have to draw the conclusion you have no answers.

[spurtle]

To anyone that can answer this question.
If Scotland became independent and it was agreed through westminster to have a fiscal union with the pound, then what happens when it ends up always a Tory govt in westminster with tory fiscal policy, how much influence would scotland have on fiscal policy that would bind the pound?
, it seems we would have even more tory policy in an independent Scotland than not as England (tory) would determine our interest rates which would then determine our borrowing and spending. And if Scotland were doing badly in the economy and england doing well then the interest rates would be high and if vise versa then our savers would be affected by England's low interest rates, surely to be truly Independent we need our own currency?

“Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

At the moment we have some say as we return MPs to westminster but as Independent we have no say.
Also SNP's bill to place a state guardian to every child in Scotland till the age of 18 is the sort of frightening thing that's going to get worse.

[ducati]

To anyone that can answer this question.
If Scotland became independent and it was agreed through westminster to have a fiscal union with the pound, then what happens when it ends up always a Tory govt in westminster with tory fiscal policy, how much influence would scotland have on fiscal policy that would bind the pound?
, it seems we would have even more tory policy in an independent Scotland than not as England (tory) would determine our interest rates which would then determine our borrowing and spending. And if Scotland were doing badly in the economy and england doing well then the interest rates would be high and if vise versa then our savers would be affected by England's low interest rates, surely to be truly Independent we need our own currency?

“Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

At the moment we have some say as we return MPs to westminster but as Independent we have no say.
Also SNP's bill to place a state guardian to every child in Scotland till the age of 18 is the sort of frightening thing that's going to get worse.

Just wait till we are manning the baracades in 'Independence Square' I'll light your cocktail.

I wonder if you could sue the grubbiement if your child turns out 'wrong' ?

[spurtle]

To all who are genuinely interested in the for and against arguements regarding the economic implications of independence please watch this, it's really interesting
http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/ep...ax-keiser-392/

[Mrs Bradey]

Oh Mrs Bradey thats a shame. I know some of these issues are quite complex although I tried to keep it simple. Maybe you would like to say which bits of my posts you dont understand and maybe someone else can pick it up and explain for you. Unless what you REALLY mean is you dont agree...

just reading through the thread and noticed this post, I had missed! I find this remark very patronizing. I am starting to build a clear picture of the personality of the poster. and you have the nerve to suggest that ragnar is making personal comments!!! I see what ragner means, when he says that if you can't win the argument just accuse the opposition of bullying, and call them thick! it doesn't matter how much you simplify it, it won't make sense! you have still not answered how this new "utopian Scotland" is going to be paid for!

[Oddquine]

That's right Squidge have a little Ecky Fit as I've said before whose version of fair are we talking about. You are stamping your feet, flag waving again but once again you've no proof any of what you've said will happen just what you would like or what you hope for, but no proof of it. Not a shred. As for answering peoples questions if the SNP had done their job competently those questions would of been answered in the white paper, or are you suggesting you are some kind of oracle for a possible New Scotland able to see into the future and foretell what the politicians of the future are going to do .Maybe possibly you have a hotline to the Eck himself and have insider knowledge or is it as i surmise your view based entirely on your view .I'm not frothing at the mouth more amused by your delusional rantings based on your opinion nothing more nothing less. Of course you'd like more social spending your job depends on it so who wouldn't want all these things when they have a vested interest. But not once do you mention where all the money is going to come from to pay for all this social engineering. Higher Taxation, building up a healthy fiscal deficit would be another would be my guess. By the way you are an I not us speaking in the third party can be misconstrued as a sign of some types of health issue. Carry on Kommisar. Oh and no need to shout. :0))

At the end of the day........all we need to know is this http://archive.is/vcQ78 (Financial Times).

and this http://reidfoundatio...t-independence/

What the SNP is authorised to do is undertake the negotiations to achieve Independence, and for those they will be including representatives of other parties, so it will not be all SNP. Similarly, after Independence there will be a General Election....and if the SNP get in, in 2016, it will be because the other parties eligible to stand in an Independent Scotland, (and presently that does not include UK Nulabour, UK Tories and UK LibDems, who are registered in England for the Whole UK), have not managed to come up with anything better/more compelling.

But what can be guaranteed is that we won't be spending as much money on "defence".....on wars, on Trident and other aspects of the UK militant tendency, with the most incompetent procurement system bar none...we won't be bankrolling 1500 very expensive self-important members of the Houses of Parliament as well as the Scottish Government, and their the bloated Government departments, quangos and commissions; we won't be spending as much, if Westminster continues playing silly s, on debt interest (as we won't have debt); we won't be funding HS2 and other South of England/London subsidies; we won't be leasing, or buying and maintaining, 5000 Foreign Embassies and approaching 3000 Diplomats; we won't be paying the costs of the privatisation of the NHS and welfare provision,( like ATOS and the PFI hospitals) in the UK which currently reduces the Barnett Block Grant, etc, etc; and what can also be guaranteed is that a Scottish Government will spend the money saved for the benefit of Scotland and all Scots, rather than for the benefit of the already wealthy, the politicians and Global Companies predominantly based in London?

Can you guarantee that, by staying within the Union, with all the threats being made to funding and Barnett by those who would be required to vote for any further devolution, and with Unionist parties who can only agree long enough to say NO to everything Scotland proposes, but can't agree on, or guarantee any further devolution, (which would admittedly be the preference of the majority in Scotland) anything at all would change for the better to reduce poverty and inequality in Scotland?

I have never believed in "better the devil you know" if you also know that devil has no intentions of altering his mindset and will happily tinker round the edges of change, but keep one thumb firmly on the top of your head with the other hand wielding the whip..and there is no way to improve our lot...except by getting out from under..and that chance to get out is the Independence on offer....and not the further devolution which is deliberately (and by a Westminster decision) not on offer.

[RagnarRocks]

Are you suggesting that an independent Scotland would have no embassies no consular staff around the globe ? A vastly reduced military to protect the citizens of a scotland should someone become aggressive, would you them rely on rUK to protect you in a worst case scenario. As for spending on hospitals again you'll still have to fund them if you want the expanded utopian NHS that's talked about so more money. Global companies will still act the same so no change there or just won't deal with Scotland. Westminster has just allowed Scotland to issue bonds so that's a development in devolution extra revenue raising and without Westminster Scotland would pay for everything itself. You'll have to still pay for infrastructure roads rail etc that won't change much just who pays and from where. The political landscape won't change much the parties will still be Labour Conservatives, Lib Dems, SNP. So despite all your wonderful examples the reality is nothing much will change. Quangos no,doubt Scotland will still have them. As for the thumb on top of your head that is just dogma no one oppresses the Scottish that's just the usual rhetoric used by the YES campaign to tug at the emotions of wavering voters. What you'll have is more of the same with a different name. But without the economies of scale

[Phill]

BECAUSE IN AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND MONEY RAISED HERE WILL BE SPENT ON THE PRIORITIES DECIDED BY US WHEN WE VOTE IN OUR SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT.

Ragnar The proof is there in the figures that show health inequalities in the UK

It seems that the glorious SNP, who were democratically elected by the Scottish people, who run the NHS in Scotland are wideneing these health inequalities.
Under the direction of the SNP lead Scottish govt we are seeing rural health services decimated and being centralised to major towns & cities.

Strange really as Scotland is by and large, a rural country.

Those who live in Caithness can testify to the trips down to Raigmore for anything more than a sticking plaster as services at CGH & in the community have been decimated in recent years by the Scottish Govt.

Currently there is Patient transport and or some subsidy to your travel costs, I understand these will be removed in time.

Some people in Sutherland have to now fund a 5 hour taxi ride to get Scottish NHS treatment.

Did the people of Scotland vote for that?

We keep hearing this utopian dream that as individuals we will decide what happens. But, SNP want to join the EU too.
There is no independence in that. You will have more of the same I'm afraid

[Phill]

To all who are genuinely interested in the for and against arguements regarding the economic implications of independence please watch this, it's really interesting
http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/ep...ax-keiser-392/

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Good ole Max. Bumped into him and his sidekick in Laarndun, very entertaining. But he is just a sideshow selling a ponzi scheme.

[Phill]

Independence or no Independence, the health service here will not improve.

Maybe, just maybe, after the vote the Govt can get back to focusing on being a govt delivering services to the electorate rather than using them to buy votes. Which is exactly what Mr Salmond & the SNP have been doing and focusing the benefits into high population areas.