"You don’t have a vote, but you do have a voice"

[Tubthumper]

And how many companies operating in Scotland are owned from outside Scotland alas that's part of what's called globalisation something we all have to live with nowadays, unless of course you're suggesting isolationism and we only buy products by companies entirely owned and operated in Scotland with Scottish employees. Maybe you'd like to turn your attention to the oil and gas industry or the petro chemical industry or supermarkets the car industry and apply the same rules to them. But if we do that wouldn't Scotland be an awfully impoverished country after a short while.

Agree with you. So in the face of globalisation where's the sense in adding transaction charges for trade between friendly neighbours?

[RagnarRocks]

A few years ago I made a healthy living using the difference between prices in spain and prices in the Uk so it doesn't really matter if you're friends or not there are differences in prices between different countries hence people like to buy their cars, clothes, cigarettes in one country because they are cheaper and bring them back here even though some of them are manufactured over here. Taxes, Shipping Charges, Exchange Rates are all used by companies all over the world to their best advantage nothing new in it. So if Scotland becomes independent why would not the same rules apply as they do to every other country or are you suggesting there should be a special case made just for Scotland. Its not as though many companies don't already charge extra shipping costs for the Highlands and Islands usually in excess of what the carrier charges them so to some extent it already applies.

[Tubthumper]

So you're glorifying profiteering? Greed is great?

[RagnarRocks]

Today a sky news poll shows the following...what would happen if you woke up and found Scotlamd was independent.
I would be delighted 25%
I would be dismayed 46%
I wouldn't Mind. 17%
Don't know 11%

Compared to Rest of the United Kingdom

I would be delighted 11%
I would be dismayed 34%
I wouldn't mind. 46%
Don't know. 9%

[ducati]

Agree with you. So in the face of globalisation where's the sense in adding transaction charges for trade between friendly neighbours?

Problem is Tubs, the eck has pee'd off the rest of the UK now to such an extent that Westminster couldn't sell a currency union to the people even if it wanted to.

Seems to me that there are very few people in a position of power in the head of the Yes campaign and they are acting increasingly irrationally. Therefore the strategy (and it is a sound one) of the No campaign is to keep the pressure on in the expectation that someone will blow a gasket and finally expose them for what they are.

[Oddquine]

And how many companies operating in Scotland are owned from outside Scotland alas that's part of what's called globalisation something we all have to live with nowadays, unless of course you're suggesting isolationism and we only buy products by companies entirely owned and operated in Scotland with Scottish employees. Maybe you'd like to turn your attention to the oil and gas industry or the petro chemical industry or supermarkets the car industry and apply the same rules to them. But if we do that wouldn't Scotland be an awfully impoverished country after a short while.

I made no comment about that. You said that no Portuguese or Spanish boats fished in Scottish Waters...and that was the remark to which I was responding.

The fact that boats from other countries are UK registered doesn't presently mean they are obliged to unload their catch in the UK and sell it here to add value to the UK economy.as long as they drop into a UK harbour about 6 times during their fishing days.....though to be fair, UK registered Spanish boats do land about a third of their catch here....though it generally finds its way to Spain by other means. This link refers to England, but will be applicable everywhere in the UK and to all foreign fishing boats registered in the UK, I should think. http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/media/p...quota-20130328

But hey......if you want to nit-pick about something I haven't said.....be my guest.......at least it has moved you on from saying much the same thing in different posts without reading any responses or links.

[Oddquine]

Today a sky news poll shows the following...what would happen if you woke up and found Scotlamd was independent.
I would be delighted 25%
I would be dismayed 46%
I wouldn't Mind. 17%
Don't know 11%

Compared to Rest of the United Kingdom

I would be delighted 11%
I would be dismayed 34%
I wouldn't mind. 46%
Don't know. 9%

That was three weeks ago.......and what is it meant to prove?

[RagnarRocks]

So you're glorifying profiteering? Greed is great?

Without companies making a profit, they can't pay wages invest in new technology, develop new products, stay competitive and go bust.

That tubs is the way of the world no profit = no companies = no jobs = poverty.

Or are you now suggesting that no company in Scotland should make a profit,no one supplying Scotland should make a profit,and we sell Independent Scotland as the worlds first special status charity zone.

[RagnarRocks]

That was three weeks ago.......and what is it meant to prove?

There was no intention to prove anything merely a poll showing national opinions. But interesting to note how you critique statistics that are three weeks old but are quite happy to espouse stats which are years old as still relevant. Do I note a dichotomy of standards or is it my imagination.

[RagnarRocks]

I made no comment about that. You said that no Portuguese or Spanish boats fished in Scottish Waters...and that was the remark to which I was responding. The fact that boats from other countries are UK registered doesn't presently mean they are obliged to unload their catch in the UK and sell it here to add value to the UK economy.as long as they drop into a UK harbour about 6 times during their fishing days.....though to be fair, UK registered Spanish boats do land about a third of their catch here....though it generally finds its way to Spain by other means. This link refers to England, but will be applicable everywhere in the UK and to all foreign fishing boats registered in the UK, I should think. http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/media/p...quota-20130328But hey......if you want to nit-pick about something I haven't said.....be my guest.......at least it has moved you on from saying much the same thing in different posts without reading any responses or links.

So you're saying the said Spanish fishing boats are legally registered and operated, abide by the required legislation and also land catch in Scotland ..
The rest was a logical extension of your argument.
Not what you said but the implications of what you said when extended across other industries.

[bekisman]

Here we go again from Alex with the Anglophobe rhetoric; "Westminster Elite are bullying Scotland".

This is simply 'childish playground name calling'. That is not my own opinion (although I agree), but one of my daughter-in-laws - who's Scottish roots, lives across the pond. I was unaware of it but she tells me that in 2012 on the Late Late Show Alex confused NY with Washington! The man is NOT a player on the international stage, but an embarrassment to Scotland abroad, his class-conscious outbursts are reminiscent of the Socialist Republicans in the 80's with their archaic utterances . Oh that's right I forgot, Alex salmon ran the 79 Group Socialist Society was formed as a leftwing organisation committed to the establishment of a “socialist and republican Scotland" Eh?, though he wanted QEII to be the head of State?

So he's still banging his head against the wall demanding currency union (in your dreams Alex). But If and I say IF he gets it, is this what 'independence means?: Treasury officials from London would treat the Scottish Treasury as accountable to them, requiring regular updates, with London expecting to have the power to overturn spending and taxation decisions.(That's more power than it currently has over Holyrood.
He threatens 'business in the rUK could expect to face £500m exchange transaction costs, then it follows that Scotland, with lower sales of goods and services into the rUK, could - very roughly - expect a business cost of £400m. A smaller figure, but proportionately a lot more. (And that's at the lower end of potential estimates.)
That is, if Salmond does NOT get his way with a currency union, then the full cost to Scottish businesses of introducing a separate currency could be, proportionately, much greater than that estimated for the rUK. It's not obvious why the first minister would wish to draw attention to such a big potential blow to trade. While it might hurt rUK businesses selling into an independent Scotland, it looks like it would HURT SCOTTISH BUSINESSES FAR MORE.
No Pre-Negotiation!
Michael Moore the Lib Dem minister made it clear a long time ago, that the UK government would not be entering into early talks on what might happen in a post-independence world. Mr Moore said: "We will not be negotiating in advance"

So what's Plan B Alex? presumably he will tell the Scottish People that English/welsh/Irish WILL agree a currency union, but you'll have to vote for independence first??
I've spent my life with Scots; in the military and also the fire service (I don't tend to panic Tubs) there are no better colleagues, I have had my life in their hands many times, although I'm kinda English (ask Lizz) I have amazing empathy for Scottish folk. Don't get taken in by the ranting of an ex-socialist and republican.

Alex YOU are actually the minority, stop bullying those who see sense that we are 'better together' And don't forget; England does not have Independence, Wales and N.Ireland do not have Independence, so why are YOU so keen?

[Kenn]

KIND of English !
Khe de gherdes ty bal !
And I'm not translating as I might get banned he he.

[RagnarRocks]

A little quote from Bertrand Russell seems apt....
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves,and wiser people so full of doubts.

[Oddquine]

Today a sky news poll shows the following...what would happen if you woke up and found Scotlamd was independent.
I would be delighted 25%
I would be dismayed 46%
I wouldn't Mind. 17%
Don't know 11%

Compared to Rest of the United Kingdom

I would be delighted 11%
I would be dismayed 34%
I wouldn't mind. 46%
Don't know. 9%

As you are keen on pointless unrepresentative polls..here's another one for you......Channel 4.
.https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1bjn.../viewanalytics


Are you eligible to vote in the Scottish independence referendum?
Yes 10695 86%
No 1677 14%

Are you in favour of Scottish independence?
Yes 10235 83%
No 2137 17%

Do you think an independent Scotland should be allowed to keep the sterling as currency?
Yes 10155 82%
No 2217 18%

Do you think an independent Scotland should be allowed to join the EU?
Yes 11107 90%
No 1265 10%

[RagnarRocks]

Well at the end of the day the only thing that matters is how we vote on the big day. Youre quite right polls generally mean not much, but comparing sky news poll to channel 4s is quite amusing have you seen the difference in viewing figures. And the reality of the situation is Mr Salmond gave a speech he didn't deconstruct the argument against a currency union, he views his opinion higher than the President of the EU Commision infact Mr Salmond considers anyone not in powers view far more important than those controlling the levers of power. At the end of the day all he is promising is uncertainty with a nice slice of nationalism and socialism to wash it down. Vote whichever way you wish,on the rocks with a splash and twist if you please :0)!

[Oddquine]

Well at the end of the day the only thing that matters is how we vote on the big day. Youre quite right polls generally mean not much, but comparing sky news poll to channel 4s is quite amusing have you seen the difference in viewing figures. And the reality of the situation is Mr Salmond gave a speech he didn't deconstruct the argument against a currency union, he views his opinion higher than the President of the EU Commision infact Mr Salmond considers anyone not in powers view far more important than those controlling the levers of power. At the end of the day all he is promising is uncertainty with a nice slice of nationalism and socialism to wash it down. Vote whichever way you wish,on the rocks with a splash and twist if you please :0)!

I believe polls as little as I believe Unionist Westminster politicians.

Why should he need to deconstruct a pointless argument? Does anyone with a lick of wit go into negotiations having revealed all their cards ahead of time?

So you are agreeing with Barroso that if Scotland votes for Independence, other EU member countries won't recognise it because we declared UDI, like Kosovo? FYI, despite Kosovo still not being recognised by 5 EU countries, it has been continuing with the EU enacted Stabilisation Tracking Mechanism (STM) programme signed in Oct 2012.

Personally I'm not too bothered about either the currency or the EU...but I do realise if Unionists don't pull Project Fear and Smear..they are speechless. I'm still waiting for the positive benefits of being in the Union....and Unionist perceived problems for Scotland with the currency and the EU just doesn't cut it for positivity!

[Big Gaz]

A few years ago I made a healthy living using the difference between prices in spain and prices in the Uk so it doesn't really matter if you're friends or not there are differences in prices between different countries hence people like to buy their cars, clothes, cigarettes in one country because they are cheaper and bring them back here even though some of them are manufactured over here. Taxes, Shipping Charges, Exchange Rates are all used by companies all over the world to their best advantage nothing new in it. So if Scotland becomes independent why would not the same rules apply as they do to every other country or are you suggesting there should be a special case made just for Scotland. Its not as though many companies don't already charge extra shipping costs for the Highlands and Islands usually in excess of what the carrier charges them so to some extent it already applies.

Won't work like that until Scotland is part of the EU. Until then you will have to pay import and export duties and taxes together with shipping costs! Also if you are buying in England and bringing the stuff north to sell, you could be on the end of a smuggling charge!......who would have thought it eh! A fine and upstanding member of e Org stitched up for smuggling Cornish Pasties, English Cheddar, Welsh Lamb and Irish Stew into Scotland!

[RagnarRocks]

Won't work like that until Scotland is part of the EU. Until then you will have to pay import and export duties and taxes together with shipping costs! Also if you are buying in England and bringing the stuff north to sell, you could be on the end of a smuggling charge!......who would have thought it eh! A fine and upstanding member of e Org stitched up for smuggling Cornish Pasties, English Cheddar, Welsh Lamb and Irish Stew into Scotland!

Just think of the money I could make smuggling illicit bottles of buckfast over the border :0))

[RagnarRocks]

I believe polls as little as I believe Unionist Westminster politicians.Why should he need to deconstruct a pointless argument? Does anyone with a lick of wit go into negotiations having revealed all their cards ahead of time? So you are agreeing with Barroso that if Scotland votes for Independence, other EU member countries won't recognise it because we declared UDI, like Kosovo? FYI, despite Kosovo still not being recognised by 5 EU countries, it has been continuing with the EU enacted Stabilisation Tracking Mechanism (STM) programme signed in Oct 2012. Personally I'm not too bothered about either the currency or the EU...but I do realise if Unionists don't pull Project Fear and Smear..they are speechless. I'm still waiting for the positive benefits of being in the Union....and Unionist perceived problems for Scotland with the currency and the EU just doesn't cut it for positivity!

A fair argument oddquine apart from the issue, which is they've said currency union isn't up for negotiation. That's not showing your hand that's saying its not on the table.

Now I dont agree or disagree with Barrosso I've just stated he has made a valid point that Scotland may well be treated as a new member which is contrary to Mr Salmonds assurances if that is the case then you loose a lot of farming subsidies and EU investment also there's the issue of not being able to Use the Euro either. That would leave a newly independent Scotland with one less currency option.

Now why do you call it project fear and smear just because they disagree with Mr Salmonds assertions, one could equally say that Mr Salmond is playing the bully and emotional card as well as the smear so its an argument that cuts both ways.

I haven't heard anyone from Westminster calling the SNP bullies, blusterers bluffers that seems to be entirely Mr Salmomds fall back position when someone disagrees with him.You can hardly expect rUK to sit back and nod in agreement with everything the SNP claims,all they are doing is voicing an opposing view point.
But with all the power & knowledge of the civil servants and legal experts employed by Wesminster regardless of which party is in power. As compared to Mr Salmond who has non of those at his disposal.

[Big Gaz]

Just think of the money I could make smuggling illicit bottles of buckfast over the border :0))

Aye, need to be careful though, i thought the Glesga Polis wanted them to be marked so they could trace the origin?