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Thread: Nationalism

  1. #1
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    Default Nationalism

    Tell me someone else can see whats happening to a sizable proportion of this country. Can anyone else see the utter ignorance that drives nationalism or is it just me?

    Have any nationalists bothered to read about the rise of nazism? Can anyone else see this?
    There are basically 3 type of people in this world, those who can count and those who cant

  2. #2
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    Like some sort of National Scotialists?

  3. #3
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    like some sort of Nazi Nationalists?...err no!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezer 316 View Post
    Tell me someone else can see whats happening to a sizable proportion of this country. Can anyone else see the utter ignorance that drives nationalism or is it just me?

    Have any nationalists bothered to read about the rise of nazism? Can anyone else see this?
    Haha, love it, but yes...it is just you....no wait....well, mainly you.

    Now talking about this rise in nazism? Doesn't that bring to mind severe welfare reforms, abolishment of human rights and so forth? Don't think I saw that in any nationalist policies, however I do believe Diablo Dave and his Minions think along those lines, but then, maybe that's just me. Oh well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weezer 316 View Post
    Tell me someone else can see whats happening to a sizable proportion of this country. Can anyone else see the utter ignorance that drives nationalism or is it just me?

    Have any nationalists bothered to read about the rise of nazism? Can anyone else see this?
    I'm sorry, did you just compare being a Nationalist to being a Nazi ?? .. are you for real ??

    Every second thread on this forum seems to be about Independence, and it seems that if you are for it then you are right up there with the guy in the red suit, hooves, horns and forky tail. Tell you what chum why dont you drift off to the corner and have a little weep/tantrum etc etc about the fact that other people dare to have a different view to you. Its called democracy. If anyone on this forum is coming close to the Nazi's its people like you who seem to have a never ending stream of spiteful, hateful intolerance of a perfectly legitimate political view. What a bunch of full on drooling basketcases we seem to have here spouting the same old bile in thread after thread.

    I joined the forum because I no longer live in Caithness, after reading some of the posts on here I remember why I left. Its like watching drunk retards let loose with a box of crayons and actual proof that the current gene pool in Caithness has nothing but a shallow end. So much for getting a flavour of my home county, this is like getting hosed down with stupid. Goodbye.

    PS .. I dont vote normally as I think all politicians are scum. But just to annoy YOU I am going to drop a "Yes" vote come the referendum, try not to let your head explode. Not that it would matter really, the amount of brains you would have to put in that explosion would struggle to reach your shoulder.
    The D is Silent.

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    Django, just read your thresd and it not only makes perfect sense it gave me a good laugh too. Many thanks.

  7. #7
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    Nationalism and Fascism are two different things. I've met quite a few nationalist they generally seem friendly enough and passionate for debate but I wouldn't say I've met a single one who slides that far to the right.The debate for independence should be a passionate debate but with respect for all arguments whilst not necessarily agreeing with the opposing view.

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    Nationalism is, by it's very definition, seperatism, and this can often be (mis)used as a socially acceptable blanket to hide discrimination, racism and bigotry. Replace the word "English" in many of the independence debates with "blacks" or "jews" and they would instantly become unacceptable.

    Many Scottish Nationalists are open minded, fair individuals with a passionate political viewpoint, but, unfortunately, many of their followers are driven by intolerance and even hatred.

    Don't confuse the two.
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

    - Charles de Gaulle

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Django View Post
    I'm sorry, did you just compare being a Nationalist to being a Nazi ?? .. are you for real ??

    Every second thread on this forum seems to be about Independence, and it seems that if you are for it then you are right up there with the guy in the red suit, hooves, horns and forky tail. Tell you what chum why dont you drift off to the corner and have a little weep/tantrum etc etc about the fact that other people dare to have a different view to you. Its called democracy. If anyone on this forum is coming close to the Nazi's its people like you who seem to have a never ending stream of spiteful, hateful intolerance of a perfectly legitimate political view. What a bunch of full on drooling basketcases we seem to have here spouting the same old bile in thread after thread.

    I joined the forum because I no longer live in Caithness, after reading some of the posts on here I remember why I left. Its like watching drunk retards let loose with a box of crayons and actual proof that the current gene pool in Caithness has nothing but a shallow end. So much for getting a flavour of my home county, this is like getting hosed down with stupid. Goodbye.

    PS .. I dont vote normally as I think all politicians are scum. But just to annoy YOU I am going to drop a "Yes" vote come the referendum, try not to let your head explode. Not that it would matter really, the amount of brains you would have to put in that explosion would struggle to reach your shoulder.
    Very well written, very enjoyable and very much to the point,
    and I personally, thank you for it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezer 316 View Post
    Tell me someone else can see whats happening to a sizable proportion of this country. Can anyone else see the utter ignorance that drives nationalism or is it just me?

    Have any nationalists bothered to read about the rise of nazism? Can anyone else see this?
    There are a few around that still think as you do.

  11. #11
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    Weezer is correct to say there are dangers inherent in nationalism but the evidence that Scottish Independence is one step towards a nazi style state is just not there. The campaign for an Independent Scotland, the visions that have been shared for an Independent Scotland are not akin to those portrayed in nazi ideology.

    Firstly and the most important and KEY difference - The campaign for Scottish Independence is not about "being scottish" - it is not about "nationality". The campaign for independence is about democracy. It is about who governs the country we live in. Who makes the decisions about how we spend the money we have - wherever that comes from. Its about how we ensure that those people making the decisions being accountable to the people who live here, whether they are born here or come from anywhere in the world and choose to live here.

    If we move on from this then we see across those parties who support independence a drive to create a fairer and more equal society. IT is about growing a more inclusive society. The plans from all the MAIN parties to be part of the EU, to have a written constitution and to work with other countries through NATO and through European networks and world networks is indicative of plan for a progressive modern and inclusive democracy.

    The attitude of the main Independence supporting parties to immigration is also evidence that an Independent Scotland will have a welcoming and encouraging attitude to those wishing to move here and make Scotland their home and another indication that Weezer's fears have no basis in what is actually happening. As weezer says in another thread - Scotland needs immigrants and the main parties support this and will work to making this happen.

    So thats the main parties - what about grass roots support? Are the main parties saying what they think is least scary and the supporters are saying something different? There is no evidence that this is the case. We have Radical Independence Campaign, we have the YES campaign, We have women for Independence, we have asians for Independence we have the Jimmy Reid Foundation with its Common Weal project. None of these grass roots supporters are presenting a scary and worrying drift towards Naziism. Sure there are some people who express weird and disturbing views - there are people with anti english views, there are people who want to close the borders and rebuild Hadrians wall, there are people who are racist and who have views akin to those weezer is so concerned about but they are few and far between and they exist on the fringes of the debate with no role in the creation of an Independent Scotland. If you are so worried about these people then surely the support for the union by the Orange Order, the comments make by the Scottish Defence league and the National Front ( still active apparently particularly around Aberdeen) and their commitment to the NO Campaign must equally ring alarm bells.

    So in summary - it is always worth being aware of the dangers of extremes in any political movement but any suggestion that the campaign for an Independent Scotland is a dangerous drift towards naziism is to quote weezer "utter ignorance".
    Last edited by squidge; 14-Nov-13 at 08:06.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    Firstly and the most important and KEY difference - The campaign for Scottish Independence is not about "being scottish" - it is not about "nationality". The campaign for independence is about democracy.
    We've been through all this before haven't we?

    I'm certain that you, and I mean you here believe that is about democracy. But who are those behind you sniggering?
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

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    Go on then, if a referendum on whether Scotland should be an independent country is not about the sort of democracy we want and who should govern us then what is it about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    Go on then, if a referendum on whether Scotland should be an independent country is not about the sort of democracy we want and who should govern us then what is it about?
    well for starters it is about anti-toryism but of the London kind. Why do you think any tory never gets voted in but any tory in sheep's clothing goes as an independent, Libdem or SNP? It is political escapism.

    If you think it is just about the brand of democracy that you espouse then you must be blind, naive or both.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  15. #15

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    You silly people, do you STILL not realise that we live in a Democratic Dictatorship? ie: we are free to vote in a dictator of our choice........ the sooner people realise this as FACT the sooner we can waste time talking about silly things like REVOLUTION!!!!!
    Last edited by Tangerine-Dream; 14-Nov-13 at 22:40.

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    I do hear that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are coming back to run Scotland should it become independent. Scottish men running Scotland,doors flung open for everyone to eat the last scraps off your table regardless of where they come from and freebies galour. Then just to top it off they intend to run your economy Into the ground just to make sure the jobs done well and good. Ooops got those names wrong its should be Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon my apologies for that mistake but the Billy Smart International Politicians bureau sent through the wrong list.

  17. #17
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    Whats the question? lets see " Should Scotland be an Independent Country"

    Fundamentally that question is about the sort of democracy we have. There are many reasons for choosing yes or no. It may be because you are "Anti tory" it may be because you want a Scottish Socialist Republic of Scotland, it may be because you hate all immigrants and want Scotland to be out of europe or inside europe but the thing that the Referendum will decide FIRST and FOREMOST is the sort of government we will have in Scotland. Not the party who will govern us, not tangerines dream of which dictator we have, not ragnar rocks colour of politician feeding at the table - although the table in Scotland seems to be at least a little less groaning with sweeties than the one in Westminster. (Nice to see Anas Sarwar failing to turn up to vote on the Bedroom Tax and yet helping himself to a whopping housing allowance!!!!)

    The decision you are making on September 18th is about whether we govern ourselves or whether we dont. Whether we have an independent Scotland or whether we remain part of the union. Thats is.

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    I should like to make a point I think all the political parties and politicians are being somewhat disingenuous over the issues and I wouldn't trust one of them further tha I could throw them.

  19. #19
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    I think you are right ragnar... Thats why its so important to research and read around the issues yourself about what matters to you personally and why forums like this are useful and why facebook and blogs are an interesting source of information. There is loads of nonsense but you'll find answers opinions and debates which can help to get to the bottom of the issues that you care about. There is maybe a case for a tread where a poster can ask a question and receive replies from either side without the name calling and bitchiness that seems to characterize the threads but I doubt it would work.

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