New Jobs for Scotland

**orkneycadian** · 07-Oct-13, 21:15

I would be all for more incoming call centre operators. Anything to stop the perpetual loop of "Your call is important to us. Please hold for the next available operator"

But cold callers who prey on the vulnerable with their incessant sales patter should be ashamed of themselves. On a number of occaisons, I have been at my mothers house when she has received them, and have witnessed how difficult she finds it to tell them to go away, and the resultant annoyance that she then suffers.

Re-allocate cold callers to incoming call receivers and problem solved - Simples.

**secrets in symmetry** · 07-Oct-13, 22:46

Originally Posted by orkneycadian

I would be all for more incoming call centre operators. Anything to stop the perpetual loop of "Your call is important to us. Please hold for the next available operator"

But cold callers who prey on the vulnerable with their incessant sales patter should be ashamed of themselves. On a number of occaisons, I have been at my mothers house when she has received them, and have witnessed how difficult she finds it to tell them to go away, and the resultant annoyance that she then suffers.

Re-allocate cold callers to incoming call receivers and problem solved - Simples.

You're right - I was thinking of cold callers only.

Today, I had a call from an affable-sounding Irishman who worked for British Gas. He sounded genuinely surprised that I didn't even want to hear the offer he had prepared for me due to my status as a longstanding customer. Some of these people are wasted in call centres, Sean should be on Broadway!

**ducati** · 08-Oct-13, 08:11

Originally Posted by secrets in symmetry

You're right - I was thinking of cold callers only.

Today, I had a call from an affable-sounding Irishman who worked for British Gas. He sounded genuinely surprised that I didn't even want to hear the offer he had prepared for me due to my status as a longstanding customer. Some of these people are wasted in call centres, Sean should be on Broadway!

OK We agree we need business don't we? Apart from odddude who seems to think it is the devils work. Business needs one thing to employ all the engineers and scientists they employ and that is to sell all the stuff that the scientists develop and the engineers build. If it wasn't for sales activity no one would have a job. So, if you are offered an opportunity to invest in a Nigerian diamond mine via an ex-bank manager with a suitcase full of cash, that isn't selling right? it is a crimminal scam, don't get the two confused.

**orkneycadian** · 08-Oct-13, 21:07

Business has operated for centuries without the need for cold calling (Jehovahs Witnesses excepted...), spam mails and paper junk mail. That some nowadays can't be bothered to market their services properly is no reason for the majority of the populous to have to endure their unwanted antics.

**Oddquine** · 08-Oct-13, 22:27

Originally Posted by weezer 316

CPT, likely BT staff at the time in Newcastle. Saying that client logic were always twats. certianly BT and manpower were standard. You had payscales Across the country. The staff in BT now here are huge winners from it, they earn a fortune. Should have bloody stayed!

Squidge, westminster council calls are handled in Inverness and dingwall too. Again though, thats not the point. Anywhere in the world is cheaper than central london, outside that its not cheaper. Infact, check the graphic below and you will see we cost the same as England outside of london, and in many cases, Aberdeen and Edinburgh again, more.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...zoomed-picture

Now it just shows how handy being in the union is eh? I cant imagine Dublin getting investment to deal with calls from central london can you? Why put them to Scotland, which has lower unemployment and higher wages than the likes of lincolnshire? Scratch our back and we scratch yours and all that....

Now, for the record, the reason stuff is punted here out of proportion to our population is, according to BT in the many daft briefings you get, because Scottish advisors consistently do well in their customer satisfaction scores. I had a few remark on how much the Scottish accent helps on the phone. India is waaaaay cheaper, how are all the calls not handled there?

What has being in the Union to do with it? Is India in the Union?

If it is as cheap..if not cheaper, to have call centres in Scotland, with employees who consistently do well regarding customer satisfaction (unlike those in India)....why would they move their call centres elsewhere...as I would assume they will continue to provide the telephone lines and ancillary services for profit in Scotland after Independence. After all....they have call centres for BT Ireland in Ireland.

Can't really understand why nobody grasps that big companies go where profits can be made......as evidenced by the level of increase in inward investment to Scotland despite the UK Government scare-mongering.....and the number of companies who have decided that Indian call-centres were in danger of losing them more customers than their preferred profit percentage could stand....and have moved at least a proportion of them back to the UK.

**ducati** · 08-Oct-13, 23:30

Originally Posted by orkneycadian

Business has operated for centuries without the need for cold calling (Jehovahs Witnesses excepted...), spam mails and paper junk mail. That some nowadays can't be bothered to market their services properly is no reason for the majority of the populous to have to endure their unwanted antics.

If it didn't work they wouldn't do it. Remember all the emloyees wages that need paying?

**orkneycadian** · 08-Oct-13, 23:49

I believe the technique is called, rather appropriately given Ducati's present line of thinking, the scatter gun approach. It doesnt seem to matter if 98% of the population get pee'd off with the cold calling, as long as 2% are gullible enough to fall for it, and cover the costs of the exercise.

Whether or not the jobs that are sustained are fair exchange for the money the victims were diddled out of is another matter.

**ducati** · 09-Oct-13, 11:02

Originally Posted by orkneycadian

I believe the technique is called, rather appropriately given Ducati's present line of thinking, the scatter gun approach. It doesnt seem to matter if 98% of the population get pee'd off with the cold calling, as long as 2% are gullible enough to fall for it, and cover the costs of the exercise.

Whether or not the jobs that are sustained are fair exchange for the money the victims were diddled out of is another matter.

Really? The advertising and marketing agencies that run these campaigns are quite sophisticated. Probably the Stats involved are a bit beyond the average drooling, gun toting, six fingered banjo player so I wouldn't worry yourself about it.

**Oddquine** · 09-Oct-13, 18:59

Originally Posted by ducati

Really? The advertising and marketing agencies that run these campaigns are quite sophisticated. Probably the Stats involved are a bit beyond the average drooling, gun toting, six fingered banjo player so I wouldn't worry yourself about it.

And when did sophisticated, in the brave new world of UK Friedman/Reagan/since Thatcher UK market PLC, mean anything other than more up-to-date methods of screwing people out of their cash for profit?

I have always had a rule of thumb..if it is being advertised at enormous expense on TV and in full page adverts in the papers.....there is nothing in it to recommend it more than the item I have been using for years and which does much the same thing more cheaply. (and it is probably cheaper because they don't spend silly money to add to costs which have to be covered by inflated item pricing, in order to make profit and pay advertising and marketing agencies for quite sophisticated campaigns).

Since the day I first saw the Anadin advert.....and wondered why some really silly person was paying to advertise nothing as in "Nothing works faster than Anadin"....and wondering why that promoted Anadin, I have always considered advertising and marketing as a con (by people with little grasp of the English language) much on the same lines as the current cold calling epidemic...because adverts and cold callers target the unthinking who do knee-jerk ...as in "this is a big brand I must have it because my neighbour might have...and if he doesn't, I'm one up on him"....and in the case of cold callers...add the unsophisticated and vulnerable to the terminally stupid.

So, on principle, I never buy anything I see advertised on TV...or in full page adverts in newspapers.To be fair..some of the adverts I do like...some of them are a lot better than the programmes nowadays...love the Meerkat ones....but no advert, however good, is going to persuade me to buy anything ever. In these internet days...what is the point of TV advertising at great cost anyway when nearly every company in the world has an equally pointless FaceBook page?

I'm not saying I don't ever buy something which has been advertised, though....because I probably do...but I don't buy it as a result of advertising...but because I am looking for something to do a specific job.......and in the supermarket or corner shoppie, I read all the blurb on the back of all the available items and choose the one appropriate to my needs at the time. Though tbh. can't help thinking that marketing agencies lie through their teeth a lot as well though.....because I have so far bought six different items from (I think) six different companies, based on their "how to use it and what it will do blurb...and so far none of it has worked.....when all of it should have. ...if you are to believe anything they say.

If you are trying to be snide about those of us who abhor the non-fecking jobs you appear to support, ducati....let me tell you that I am a fairly well educated Scottish female with the ability to think for herself and not slavishly follow the dictat of Governments, advertising agencies and marketing companies....or the MSM. I do have some very small qualification in the area of Business Marketing, Advertising and Finance.......though admittedly in the era before God became Money and the Bible became how to make the most money and ........but I am quite sure you will forgive me if I say that if anyone on this forum is a drooling, gun toting, six fingered banjo player.....it is you...and maybe one or two others who post on here......but not orkneycacadian...or me.

**ducati** · 09-Oct-13, 20:33

Originally Posted by Oddquine

And when did sophisticated, in the brave new world of UK Friedman/Reagan/since Thatcher UK market PLC, mean anything other than more up-to-date methods of screwing people out of their cash for profit?

I have always had a rule of thumb..if it is being advertised at enormous expense on TV and in full page adverts in the papers.....there is nothing in it to recommend it more than the item I have been using for years and which does much the same thing more cheaply. (and it is probably cheaper because they don't spend silly money to add to costs which have to be covered by inflated item pricing, in order to make profit and pay advertising and marketing agencies for quite sophisticated campaigns).

Since the day I first saw the Anadin advert.....and wondered why some really silly person was paying to advertise nothing as in "Nothing works faster than Anadin"....and wondering why that promoted Anadin, I have always considered advertising and marketing as a con (by people with little grasp of the English language) much on the same lines as the current cold calling epidemic...because adverts and cold callers target the unthinking who do knee-jerk ...as in "this is a big brand I must have it because my neighbour might have...and if he doesn't, I'm one up on him"....and in the case of cold callers...add the unsophisticated and vulnerable to the terminally stupid.

So, on principle, I never buy anything I see advertised on TV...or in full page adverts in newspapers.To be fair..some of the adverts I do like...some of them are a lot better than the programmes nowadays...love the Meerkat ones....but no advert, however good, is going to persuade me to buy anything ever. In these internet days...what is the point of TV advertising at great cost anyway when nearly every company in the world has an equally pointless FaceBook page?

I'm not saying I don't ever buy something which has been advertised, though....because I probably do...but I don't buy it as a result of advertising...but because I am looking for something to do a specific job.......and in the supermarket or corner shoppie, I read all the blurb on the back of all the available items and choose the one appropriate to my needs at the time. Though tbh. can't help thinking that marketing agencies lie through their teeth a lot as well though.....because I have so far bought six different items from (I think) six different companies, based on their "how to use it and what it will do blurb...and so far none of it has worked.....when all of it should have. ...if you are to believe anything they say.

If you are trying to be snide about those of us who abhor the non-fecking jobs you appear to support, ducati....let me tell you that I am a fairly well educated Scottish female with the ability to think for herself and not slavishly follow the dictat of Governments, advertising agencies and marketing companies....or the MSM. I do have some very small qualification in the area of Business Marketing, Advertising and Finance.......though admittedly in the era before God became Money and the Bible became how to make the most money and ........but I am quite sure you will forgive me if I say that if anyone on this forum is a drooling, gun toting, six fingered banjo player.....it is you...and maybe one or two others who post on here......but not orkneycacadian...or me.

Lol, I beg to differ, I don't have a gun.

BTW How about a list of proper jobs from you just so we know how we are to employ our time in a way that would meet approval?

**Oddquine** · 09-Oct-13, 21:33

Originally Posted by ducati

Lol, I beg to differ, I don't have a gun.

BTW How about a list of proper jobs from you just so we know how we are to employ our time in a way that would meet approval?

What others do have no need to meet my approval...but they should be meeting society's approval...is that not what democracy is all about.......and I really don't think that many, apart from you, and those making profits from it actually believe that outbound calls from call centres are anything other than a complete irritation? Let's be honest, if someone is incapable of picking up a phone and calling a company with a service/good in which they are interested on their own volition......then they are incapable of saying f-off to a cold caller with good patter.

But given society, in the UK, is down to the Government.....and the Government consists of a disproportionately large proportion of millionaires, with no idea how the average punter lives.....far less the disadvantaged punter.....they don't represent society...given their focus definitely appears to be deciding which policies they can introduce to satisfy and accomplish their political convictions..and, with a bit of luck, get them in a position to acquire a lucrative part-time directorship in one of the companies they have helped instead of giving more of a toss for those who voted them into office, as opposed to those who paid for the advertising and marketing agenciesto get them into Government.

If that kind of Government suits you..then fine...takes all sorts!

**secrets in symmetry** · 09-Oct-13, 23:16

Originally Posted by ducati

OK We agree we need business don't we? Business needs one thing to employ all the engineers and scientists they employ and that is to sell all the stuff that the scientists develop and the engineers build. If it wasn't for sales activity no one would have a job.

Indeed.

However...

Sean from British Gas was just a nuisance. I was at work, and I didn't have half an hour to listen to chat from someone who was acting as if I was his long lost friend, and who claimed he was trying to secure me a good deal on something or other. He waffled on for so long that I still don't know what it was he was trying to sell lol!

More annoying are the halfwits trying to sell roof insulation, cavity wall insulation, solar panels, etc. They call back repeatedly despite being told I don't want them ever to phone me again. I know they're script jockeys because they all reel off the same patronising nonsense. Threatening to report them to police for harrassment if they do it again seems to have got rid of them at last.

**ducati** · 09-Oct-13, 23:36

Originally Posted by secrets in symmetry

Indeed.

However...

Sean from British Gas was just a nuisance. I was at work, and I didn't have half an hour to listen to chat from someone who was acting as if I was his long lost friend, and who claimed he was trying to secure me a good deal on something or other. He waffled on for so long that I still don't know what it was he was trying to sell lol!

More annoying are the halfwits trying to sell roof insulation, cavity wall insulation, solar panels, etc. They call back repeatedly despite being told I don't want them ever to phone me again. I know they're script jockeys because they all reel off the same patronising nonsense. Threatening to report them to police for harrassment if they do it again seems to have got rid of them at last.

But, don't scientists develop roof insulation, cavity wall insulation and solar panels? You can't have it both ways. Be careful, you'll be on the list of useless to society professions.

Hated and villified Sean (if he is any good) probably sells about 50 to 100 deals a week for which he gets about £25 a go. To do that he probably speaks to 500 punters so you have earned him £2.50 to £5.00 (so he's probably the one taking the piss out of you). That's the way it works.

**secrets in symmetry** · 10-Oct-13, 23:11

Originally Posted by ducati

But, don't scientists develop roof insulation, cavity wall insulation and solar panels? You can't have it both ways. Be careful, you'll be on the list of useless to society professions.

Hated and villified Sean (if he is any good) probably sells about 50 to 100 deals a week for which he gets about £25 a go. To do that he probably speaks to 500 punters so you have earned him £2.50 to £5.00 (so he's probably the one taking the piss out of you). That's the way it works.

Lol!

I couldn't hate Sean, he was funny, not detestable. If he could learn to get to the point, he could make more calls per hour and perhaps make more money.

The downside is that he'd annoy more people lol.

Seriously though, I accept your point about industry needing good sales teams in order to sell stuff, but the roof insulation, cavity wall insulation and solar panels sales people that have called me in the last couple of years were not good. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they were hopeless, and they were certainly no more convincing than the Indian eejits that occasionally try to convince me to give them control of a Windows PC.

**ducati** · 11-Oct-13, 09:19

Originally Posted by secrets in symmetry

Lol!

I couldn't hate Sean, he was funny, not detestable. If he could learn to get to the point, he could make more calls per hour and perhaps make more money.

The downside is that he'd annoy more people lol.

Seriously though, I accept your point about industry needing good sales teams in order to sell stuff, but the roof insulation, cavity wall insulation and solar panels sales people that have called me in the last couple of years were not good. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they were hopeless, and they were certainly no more convincing than the Indian eejits that occasionally try to convince me to give them control of a Windows PC.

I agree that the quality of sales people is poor in many areas. My bugbear is life insurance. As an ex Financial Adviser I am at a loss to know how you can effect a proper consultation over the 'phone. I've spent a large part of the last 20 years training sales people and it worries me that companies would rather throw job centre mud at the wall than invest in a professional sales force.

This is why I highlighted these jobs in the first place. How does it effect jobs figures if you mass recruit knowing that (maybe) 1 in 100 will last more than a couple of months?

**Oddquine** · 11-Oct-13, 10:25

Originally Posted by ducati

I agree that the quality of sales people is poor in many areas. My bugbear is life insurance. As an ex Financial Adviser I am at a loss to know how you can effect a proper consultation over the 'phone. I've spent a large part of the last 20 years training sales people and it worries me that companies would rather throw job centre mud at the wall than invest in a professional sales force.

This is why I highlighted these jobs in the first place. How does it effect jobs figures if you mass recruit knowing that (maybe) 1 in 100 will last more than a couple of months?

But when did that become a problem for the UK Government.....or businesses...the short-termism of employment? What counts for Government is getting people off unemployment, increasing the employment figures, even if only in the short-term...and "cutting public expenditure" by cutting back on benefits...not MPs salaries and expenses or the salaries of Civil Service Mandarins and the bankers in our "nationalised" banks... in the forlorn hope they can cut the continuing Government borrowing by that route. Businesses will do what it takes to make profits..hence the passion by both for non-jobs, like workfare and zero-hours contracts. The punter has little option but to take what is on offer..especially if they are under 25. Telesales irritate us...and if they irritate us enough, there will be diminishing returns for the companies involved in them, both the businesses selling...and the ones providing the call centres..and it serves them right!

**secrets in symmetry** · 12-Oct-13, 01:52

Originally Posted by ducati

I agree that the quality of sales people is poor in many areas. My bugbear is life insurance. As an ex Financial Adviser I am at a loss to know how you can effect a proper consultation over the 'phone. I've spent a large part of the last 20 years training sales people and it worries me that companies would rather throw job centre mud at the wall than invest in a professional sales force.

This is why I highlighted these jobs in the first place. How does it effect jobs figures if you mass recruit knowing that (maybe) 1 in 100 will last more than a couple of months?

Are you saying that only 1% of employees in call centres last more than a couple of months?