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Thread: Hs2

  1. #1
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    Default Hs2

    The logic behind the proposed HS2 line is to help close the north / south divide that exists in this "country", yet it will only go from London to the north of England. Not very British that is it? Yet I presume British tax money will help build it. So much for the NORTH / south divide.

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    The Edinburgh trams are not going to run along the original route to Ocean Terminal in Leith, they are stopping in Cenrtal Edinburgh. This is a terrible slap in the face to Leithers, who's taxes helped pay for the damn trams. I think thats Eck and his looney partys fault. Leith is being deprived of its rights here.
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

  3. #3
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    Leith? Where's that? I thought it had changed its name to Edinburgh Quays
    'We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike.'
    Maya Angelou

  4. #4
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    So you want independence and a high speed rail link to England just to reinforce that independence. The reality is hs2 is to link the financial heart to what's left of the industrial heart whether its value for money is a separate issue

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RagnarRocks View Post
    The reality is hs2 is to link the financial heart to what's left of the industrial heart whether its value for money is a separate issue
    Thats absolutely fine RagnarRocks. It links a bit of England to another bit of England. We know that. However if that is what it is then why designate it a UK project which benefits the whole of the UK? Because it doesnt. The same with the London Sewer Upgrade. The reason why these projects affect Scotland is because of the Barnett Formula. Simply - The Barnett formula works by taking the money spent in England on services and allocating an equivalent percentage (based on population and devolved service provision) to the Scottish Government.

    No problem you think - however - Projects considered UK wide - like HS2 and the London Sewers are taken out of this equation before the calculation is made. This reduces the amount shown as being spent on Services and therefore reduces Scotland's share. Same with the spending on the NHS. We often congratulate ourselves that in Scotland the NHS is protected from the creeping privatisation that is hitting the NHS in England and we should be proud of that but, the money spent on NHS services is reducing because of this privatiasation and so the amount passed to Scotland will reduce putting our NHS at risk.

    Golach would also have you beleive that the tram fiasco in Edinburgh is also Alex Salmonds fault and yet one of the first things that the SNP government did when it formed a monority government was to try to cancel the project because of the escalating costs and the massive problems and they were outvoted by the tories and the labour party. Again - take a look at the evidence and you will see the whole sorry mess laid out before you. Golach appears so blinded by his hatred of one man that he cant see whats in front of his face.

    HS2 and Sewers, spending on Trident, the bedroom tax are Scottish Priorities because they HAVE to be - we have no choice but to contrubute to these things, no choice but to spend money on them. In and Independent Scotland we - the voters could choose the parties who's priorities best meet Scotland's needs and not have these priorities foisted on us with no choice but to contribute.

  6. #6
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    I don't necessarily agree with HS2. But generally, any project that benefits the UK benefits all the UK. You could say the same about the Edinburgh trams or the new Forth crossing or indeed Brittania Quay. You'd think no Scot ever crossed the border.
    Last edited by ducati; 24-Sep-13 at 18:10.

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    Difference is that these projects are funded out of the money given to Scotland by the UK Government - take the commonwealth games there is NO money coming direct from Westminster to Scotland for the games. Despite the Olympics being a UK wide project and so taken out of the calcualtion. No extra money because the games are a UK wide project, no extra money because the trams may benefit the UK visitors to Edinburgh. These projects will have to be funded from Scotland's budget. Thats fine, and if I had been in charge we would still have contributed to Olympics because it truly was a UK wide project but you know - London Sewers????

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    Squidge, your narrow mindset, hopefully, belongs in the past. What after independence, no funding for caithness as all the cash was raised in glasgow? You think like a football fan.

    Anyway, explain me this. Why should taxpayers in croydon foot the bill for this: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/3...n-scotland--33

    Why oh why should they? Not their problem Altnahara is in the middle of nowhere is it? Why should the UK govt fund this? Or even attempt to?
    There are basically 3 type of people in this world, those who can count and those who cant

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    You misunderstand me Weezer. I think like a person who believes in an Independent Scotland. I think that Scotland should be managing its own spending on its own priorities. I think that Scotland's priorities need to be decided by an independent Scotland. I keep saying that. It may very well be that a Scottish Government would decide to contribute to UK projects but that should be for Scotland to decide. Equally we should be responsible for our own broadband, immigration, welfare spending, and so on. That would be because we can then tailor the systems and priorities we have to the needs of Scotland. If we arent paying for all this stuff then we could very well have had Faster Broadband sooner.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by golach View Post
    The Edinburgh trams are not going to run along the original route to Ocean Terminal in Leith, they are stopping in Cenrtal Edinburgh. This is a terrible slap in the face to Leithers, who's taxes helped pay for the damn trams. I think thats Eck and his looney partys fault. Leith is being deprived of its rights here.
    Did all of our taxes not pay for the trams?
    W.A.T.P.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by piratelassie View Post
    The logic behind the proposed HS2 line is to help close the north / south divide that exists in this "country", yet it will only go from London to the north of England. Not very British that is it? Yet I presume British tax money will help build it. So much for the NORTH / south divide.
    wow is that all you managed to glean from all that desperate web searching since your last unfounded rant

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    If we arent paying for all this stuff then we could very well have had Faster Broadband sooner.
    news flash vote for Independence and get faster broadband, wow that's me sold on it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    You misunderstand me Weezer. I think like a person who believes in an Independent Scotland. I think that Scotland should be managing its own spending on its own priorities. I think that Scotland's priorities need to be decided by an independent Scotland. I keep saying that. It may very well be that a Scottish Government would decide to contribute to UK projects but that should be for Scotland to decide. Equally we should be responsible for our own broadband, immigration, welfare spending, and so on. That would be because we can then tailor the systems and priorities we have to the needs of Scotland. If we arent paying for all this stuff then we could very well have had Faster Broadband sooner.
    Coulda woulda shoulda......

    The Uk is bigger, with the #1 heavyweight in is corner, the city of london. Broader shoulders and all that no? What does "Scottish" have to do with it? Brown was Scottish, so was Blair. Why does that matter?
    There are basically 3 type of people in this world, those who can count and those who cant

  14. #14
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    The UK has a natural border, ie its coastline. It is undeniable. An independent Scotland is based upon an artificial construct, it has a border with England that is just a dividing line across our island which is purely arbitrary and is drawn with spilt blood.

    Scottish Nationalism serves to promote the differences between the people who inhabit this island and ignores the common attitudes and customs that bind us.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    The UK has a natural border, ie its coastline. It is undeniable. An independent Scotland is based upon an artificial construct, it has a border with England that is just a dividing line across our island which is purely arbitrary and is drawn with spilt blood. Scottish Nationalism serves to promote the differences between the people who inhabit this island and ignores the common attitudes and customs that bind us.
    Probably the worst union argument I have ever heard
    W.A.T.P.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16 View Post
    Probably the worst union argument I have ever heard
    In your opinion and probably of Yes voters.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    Golach would also have you beleive that the tram fiasco in Edinburgh is also Alex Salmonds fault and yet one of the first things that the SNP government did when it formed a monority government was to try to cancel the project because of the escalating costs and the massive problems and they were outvoted by the tories and the labour party. Again - take a look at the evidence and you will see the whole sorry mess laid out before you. Golach appears so blinded by his hatred of one man that he cant see whats in front of his face. .
    Squidge oh how wrong you have me, I do not have a hateful bone in my body, I admit I detest the man and his party. I posted the slightly facetious reference to the Edinburgh Tram fiasco , with reference to piratelassie's silly anti English rants she comes out with every now and again. She repeatedly does this and sits back watching the feathers fly therefor I knowing full well you would jump in and alledgedly correct me
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

  18. #18
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    By that logic the whole of Europe should be one country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    The UK has a natural border, ie its coastline. It is undeniable. An independent Scotland is based upon an artificial construct, it has a border with England that is just a dividing line across our island which is purely arbitrary and is drawn with spilt blood.

    Scottish Nationalism serves to promote the differences between the people who inhabit this island and ignores the common attitudes and customs that bind us.

  19. #19
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    I am pro Scottish with a passion NOT anti English. Gulach what part do you nmot understand?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by piratelassie View Post
    By that logic the whole of Europe should be one country.
    Europe doesn't have a coastline...............
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

    - Charles de Gaulle

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