and About Time Too

[mi16]

The long-term unemployed will have to undertake work placements in return for their benefits, under tougher rules unveiled by Chancellor George Osborne.This must be one of the best things to be proposed in a while, it will make the lazy get the hell away from the play station or Jeremy Kyle, get back into a work routine and do a little for their payments.Perhaps go some way towards installing a work ethic back into the jobless.

[Alrock]

The long-term unemployed will have to undertake work placements in return for their benefits, under tougher rules unveiled by Chancellor George Osborne.

If there's work out there for them to do then give them a job, don't use them as a form of cheap labour....

... it will make the lazy get the hell away from the play station or Jeremy Kyle....

Ah... we do love a stereotype, makes it so much easier to put any particular group down...

[RagnarRocks]

The idea is being touted by both parties in similar tones. If you are genuinely looking for work then it shouldn't really affect you but if you're long term unemployed then considering you've not had any success why shouldn't you be expected to do some work. It's very well saying its cheap labour but if these people secure jobs they can have better paid employment, if a drug addict it offers help that's a positive, it asks people to attend daily to receive a benefit and prove they are looking for work, which seems fair to me. But if you are one of those lazy indolent couldn't care sorts which are in a minority then you won't like it at all. Remember this is aimed at about 200k people so not all the unemployed just a hard core minority. Lazy dole scroungers aren't a myth they are a reality this isn't aimed at most people who will work just the few who think society owes them a living :0)I am a bit sick of this give them a job attitude since when has it been the governments job to give people jobs !

[Alrock]

....I am a bit sick of this give them a job attitude since when has it been the governments job to give people jobs !

Isn't that what they are proposing.... Give them a job but don't pay them for it, just give them their JSA which in most cases will work out as far less than minimum wage plus you'd miss out on in work benefits that many of the employed benefit from, like Working Tax Credits etc.

[RagnarRocks]

Isn't that what they are proposing.... Give them a job but don't pay them for it, just give them their JSA which in most cases will work out as far less than minimum wage plus you'd miss out on in work benefits that many of the employed benefit from, like Working Tax Credits etc.

Half the idea is that they would rather get a real job rather than scrub graffiti or are you saying its ok to just be lazy and expect everyone else to pay ?

[golach]

Instead of sitting moaning, do as many Caithnessians have done before, including my own father.........move to where the work is. Too many are relying on hand outs from the government

[RagnarRocks]

Instead of sitting moaning, do as many Caithnessians have done before, including my own father.........move to where the work is. Too many are relying on hand outs from the government

I've always been amazed by the Americans and how they will literally up sticks and move across the country to work. I've had jobs where I was based in London and lived in Poole long journeys and a pain in the you where but at the time the rewards seemed worth it :0)) I also know people who are happy to sit on their backsides all day and expect social services to run around after them as they sit and laugh about the latest incidence of bad back, depression or whatever flavour of the day illness is that keeps the benefits rolling in . One very well known local in my old town had kids and missus sitting at home nice car tvs and he claimed he had depression and joked how he mugged them off,but it didn't stop him dealing drugs and having a very relaxed lifestyle :0)

[RecQuery]

I preface this by saying I have never been unemployed in my life.

The problem with this scheme is that:

• It will be exploited by dodgy companies and organisations to essentially provide them with slave labour. This will ultimately lead to people already in jobs losing them or a job not being created where previously one would have. It's been tried elsewhere and failed. Ref: http://www.scambridge.ie/ and http://www.scambridge.ie/aoife-one-d...r-heard-of-it/
• The benefits bill is about £6 billion, that's relatively minor in terms of government spending. In actuality there's a benefits underspend; according to the government more people should be claiming benefits than actually are. A good chunk of benefits goes to people who are already working or are on zero-hour contracts. It always struck me as odd that we go after the benefits stuff when at most all it will yield is an extra £6 billion. There are bigger fish out there that will yield a higher return for effort: VAT fraud, Tax evasion, etc.
• For people saying the unemployed should just move to where the jobs are: Don't be so glib, it's not that simple. This isn't the US. The UK has it's own dynamics and idiosyncrasies - we're one of the most centralised countries in the world, etc. It's rather difficult to move especially when you live in a remote location and have to jump through several hoops to get accommodation etc arranged. Not to mention that I don't imagine the unemployed have a pool of cash laying around to help them with this. That being said if you prefer the US system then I encourage you to move there.

Incidentally: No-one should get something for nothing, claims man (Osborne) who got everything for nothing.

[equusdriving]

The long-term unemployed will have to undertake work placements in return for their benefits, under tougher rules unveiled by Chancellor George Osborne.This must be one of the best things to be proposed in a while, it will make the lazy get the hell away from the play station or Jeremy Kyle, get back into a work routine and do a little for their payments.Perhaps go some way towards installing a work ethic back into the jobless.

yes this is the best and quickest way to cut unemployment levels and stop the "its not really worth me getting a job because I wont be that much better of " culture

[rich62_uk]

I think this is a good idea, not from the drum banging everyone should work for their money aspect but from the idea of getting those on long term benefits back into a mind set of working, and at the same time enable them to have much needed training that while I know is probably available now, is far more difficult to access.

The big but that comes with this there needs to be someone locally to make sure the people who really are not suitable for the scheme are supported with their needs taken into account ...... Its a good idea so long as it is done in a supportive way rather than a threatening way !

[equusdriving]

If there's work out there for them to do then give them a job, don't use them as a form of cheap labour....

I would think it would have to worked in a way where, they would have to work however many hours at (at-least) minimum wage that would equal their benefits. So not cheap labor, just honest work for honest pay and all the pride and self satisfaction that goes with it thrown in for free, just like the rest of society that have been following this practice for years, and supporting themselves and their families

[rob murray]

I preface this by saying I have never been unemployed in my life.

The problem with this scheme is that:

• It will be exploited by dodgy companies and organisations to essentially provide them with slave labour. This will ultimately lead to people already in jobs losing them or a job not being created where previously one would have. It's been tried elsewhere and failed. Ref: http://www.scambridge.ie/ and http://www.scambridge.ie/aoife-one-d...r-heard-of-it/
• The benefits bill is about £6 billion, that's relatively minor in terms of government spending. In actuality there's a benefits underspend; according to the government more people should be claiming benefits than actually are. A good chunk of benefits goes to people who are already working or are on zero-hour contracts. It always struck me as odd that we go after the benefits stuff when at most all it will yield is an extra £6 billion. There are bigger fish out there that will yield a higher return for effort: VAT fraud, Tax evasion, etc.
• For people saying the unemployed should just move to where the jobs are: Don't be so glib, it's not that simple. This isn't the US. The UK has it's own dynamics and idiosyncrasies - we're one of the most centralised countries in the world, etc. It's rather difficult to move especially when you live in a remote location and have to jump through several hoops to get accommodation etc arranged. Not to mention that I don't imagine the unemployed have a pool of cash laying around to help them with this. That being said if you prefer the US system then I encourage you to move there.

Incidentally: No-one should get something for nothing, claims man (Osborne) who got everything for nothing.

Well put, in sheer practical terms, has anyone thought through the logisitics, there will be on JSA in Caithness, if every one unemployed had to attend every day, then is there enough space and staff in JSA to do the work. Also if you commute from outside Wick you wait for a bus, treck up to girnigoe street, wait to sign on, presumably be interviewed to see what jobs you have applied for, then wait for bus and commute home ( who pays the bus fares ? ) This penalises the genuine unemployed, as you would be spending considerable time travelling, signing on etc if you don't make your signing time, benefits are cut 100% for three months..so how can people make signing times ( daily ) if they"ve no money. How do they survive...do people want to see the embarrassment of food banks throughout the county ?? ( SOme one here certainly do as I feel they laugh at the misfortunes of the vast majority of poor people )

ALso compare this to community service orders, which are a complete joke, work activities related to this cannot impact upon the real economy ie displace paid workers by getting community service people doing work which ordinarily has to be paid for. Ditto for "working for your dole"...doing what exactly ??

In my view this is 100% based on further attacks on the unemployed,to reduce welfare spending as aimed at the hard right hand em and flog em brigade...not trying to help people back back to work as the Tories claim. My remedy would be hefty fines for any employer found employing unemployed people working on the fly for starters (and theres plenty of that going on ) ;et them employ and pay people. Training courses aimed at up skilling unemployed people, who are unemployed for a minimum of 18 months ( compulsory ) or training that starts at day 1 of unemployment if they so wish it, but linked to proper work and community work, with severe benefit reductions for those who don't attend or buy in. Trainees being offered /advertised to employers who are incentivised to recruit them ( Business Gateway / Highland Opportunities offer such schemes just now )

Face facts Caithness isnt exactly a booming area, work is scarce for the unskilled / semi skilled ultimately where are the jobs, they have to be come from somewhere, so joined up thinking is needed here, trainees linked to business needs, businesses incentivised to take them on, business growth / business relocation to Caithness containing similar incentive packages..... not gestapo boot boy tactics.

This hatred is driving me into the Yes corner....and politically is aimed at regaining lost tory voters / lost to UKIP...so see behind the spinning and read the real politic going on.

[squidge]

Workfare doesnt work. The government's own research showed this. This is the concusion to DWP's own report into Workfare "There is little evidence that workfare increases the likelihood of finding work. It can even reduce employment chances by limiting the time available for job search and by failing to provide the skills and experience valued by employers."

The Pilot schemes the government have run show no difference in the number leaving JSA. IT doesnt create jobs, it undermines pay and conditions for people who are working for employers participating in Workfare schemes. The only way to reduce the number of long term unemployed is to create growth and jobs and subsidising wages for long term unemployed people to take real paid jobs has been shown to be far more effective. Rob is right this is about demonising and punishing people for their misfortune so that people actually cheer when others are treating in a demeaning and cruel manner.

And if George Osborne is going to ensure that people with problems get help for their addictions, mental health problems How is he going to do this? How - when waiting for a counsellor can take six months or more? When addiction support is none existent in many areas I wonder how he will do this - oh wait!!! he will offer contracts to more private organisations who will line the pockets of their shareholders and chief execs like A4e and ATOS by preying on the misery of the vulnerable and who will spectacularly fail to make a difference to the numbers of people moving into work. All they will do is make life hard for those already struggling. Oh and of course it will make those of us who congratulate ourselves on not being scroungers, never having had to claim anything and being able to move all over the country feel yet more superior.

Lets see - the vast majority of people claiming JSA long term would rather be working. Thats a fact I have mentioned before. People need the right help and the right support and given that they will move into work. However it is expensive although not as expensive as A4e or ATOS. It might mean that people are paid benefit to do quality training - something that has been missing for years and years and years. How good are Government Training Programmes anyway? Anyone remember any of these with fondness for the quality of their training? TOPS, ATS, JTS, New JTS? The only one that has actually been effective in any way is the Modern Apprentice Programme and Labour complain bitterly every time that the Scottish Government put more money into it.

This work for your benefits is a big con. It will make no difference and it will just provide more money for the private companies who specialise in doing nothing with unemployed people.

[squidge]

Here is an analysis of Jobs advertised on the government's universal jobmatch pages for Wick.

37 Catalogue distribution Jobs - Self employed
3 Mystery Shopper Jobs - Self employed
2 jobs which involved selling advertising space - self employed.

These "vacancies" are multiple adverts for the same job over a period of a it appears. No set hours, no set wages all Self employed.

I part time telephonist job - 15.5 hours a week - not enough to take someone off benefits
2 jobs for waiting staff - one at Whaligoe - needs own transport
1 Railway worker for winter work - ( should have PTS card)

There were then six jobs which required some experience - including

Team Leader at a supermarket
Deputy Manager - retail ( this job appeared to be advertised three times)
Chef
Chef de Partie

Then there were 12 jobs for people with specific qualifications or high levels of skills

These included a GP, Teacher, Joiner, LGV Driver, Stone Mason and a couple of jobs which needed Steel working qualifications and Planning qualifications.

There were also 9 vacancies for "personal Trainer Training" again these seemed to be the same opportunities advertised three times for three very similar companies. There was no guarantee of a job.

I then looked at the jobs on Jobs-North which is the jobs in the paper

There were two pages

5 Highly qualified or skilled jobs at dounreay - a couple of engineers, a couple of duty managers and a comissioning engineer

1 labourer Self Employed
1 excavator Driver
1 Shovel Driver
1 Plant Fitter
3 jobs with Remax - i admin 2 sales - no indication of part or full time hours
27 sales and marketing jobs nationwide which realistically are not based in Wick!

Oh and bizarrely a Transport Sales worker in Wick near Bristol!!!!

Where does someone limited to Caithness find a job? Why on earth would you bring people into the Jobcentre every day to apply for endless Catalogue distributor jobs? Is it any wonder that people are unemployed. Are we really sanctioning people for not applying for 37 self employed catalogue distributor jobs? God I hope not.

We need a properly functioning public Employment Agency which advertises proper jobs - if it means that employers have to notify vacancies then so be it. Give properly trained staff the jobs and the people signing on and the money and resources to address their problems. Properly funded fraud personnel and sanctions applied with fairness and common sense and you will crack it. Walk down the workfare route and you will simply fail - again and again and again.

[mi16]

It the mountain wont come to Mohamed then Mohamed must go to the mountain.

[squidge]

Does this mean move house.

Can you explain to me how someone who is on benefits can afford to move to a) Inverness b) Edinburgh c)Manchester or d) London?

Can you explain to me how someone who is a carer and on benefits can afford to move to the aforementioned places?

Can you explain to me how a single parent with two children at school can afford to move to the aforementioned places?

Can you explain to me how much it costs to move house both in terms of financial and emotional costs when you are in the positions I mentioned above?

[equusdriving]

It the mountain wont come to Mohamed then Mohamed must go to the mountain.

and the trouble is not only in a lot of cases does Mohamed not only want the mountain to come to him he wants it to bring a big wedge of money for his "necessary" luxuries like plasma tv, blackberry,sky tv, fags, booze, designer clothes for his many state funded offspring etc etc.
and in answer to the mamby pamby do gooders This has nothing to do with the sick, mentally ill etc, but the people who are signing on declaring that they are actively seeking work!

[squidge]

and in answer to the mamby pamby do gooders This has nothing to do with the sick, mentally ill etc, but the people who are signing on declaring that they are actively seeking work!

The post above applies to many people who are getting JSA. Remember that people are found fit for work DESPITE illnesses and disabilities so Equus if you too think that people claiming JSA are able to up sticks and move perhaps you could answer the questions above.....

[equusdriving]

Does this mean move house. Can you explain to me how someone who is on benefits can afford to move to a) Inverness b) Edinburgh c)Manchester or d) London?

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/s...dgeting-loans/

Can you explain to me how someone who is a carer and on benefits can afford to move to the aforementioned places?

The articles I have reads all state "long term unemployed" how does that affect carers?

Can you explain to me how a single parent with two children at school can afford to move to the aforementioned places?

who has said that a single parent with 2 kids will have to do anything that doesn't fit around them?

Can you explain to me how much it costs to move house both in terms of financial and emotional costs when you are in the positions I mentioned above?

and with this superb new scheme no one will have to face those financial and emotional costs, just do the same as all the people who pay taxes to keep them do!

[equusdriving]

The post above applies to many people who are getting JSA. Remember that people are found fit for work DESPITE illnesses and disabilities so Equus if you too think that people claiming JSA are able to up sticks and move perhaps you could answer the questions above.....

so are you saying at the moment, they are fraudulently signing saying they are actively seeking work,when they have no such intention , because if you are give me some names, I will gladly report them!