Labour Party running scared

[sam09]

The Labour Party are scared of Scottish Independence as if/when it happens Westminster will always be ruled by the Tory Party. That is why the discredited chancer of the exchequer Darling is fighting so hard on the no campaign. Who in their right mind would listen to anything he said after the mess he made of the Westminster finances?

[golach]

The Labour Party are scared of Scottish Independence as if/when it happens Westminster will always be ruled by the Tory Party. That is why the discredited chancer of the exchequer Darling is fighting so hard on the no campaign. Who in their right mind would listen to anything he said after the mess he made of the Westminster finances?

Me for a start, look at the mess Eck is going to get us in, promising old age pensions before 65, wheres the money coming from?

[sam09]

Me for a start, look at the mess Eck is going to get us in, promising old age pensions before 65, wheres the money coming from?

Golach of all people you are the last person that I would have taken as gutless. Afraid to stand on your own two feet and make your own decisions. That is all we (the yes voters) in Scotland are asking for. We can support ourselves, a fact which all political parties fully endorse. So come on wee hairy beasty, what are you afraid of?

[equusdriving]

Golach of all people you are the last person that I would have taken as gutless.

I would take gutless over clueless every-time

[golach]

I would take gutless over clueless every-time

Ditto..............

[ducati]

Born in the UKa Born in the UKa.

[weezer 316]

I cannot believe what this independence "debate" has become. Its the clueless vs the more clueless.

[ducati]

I cannot believe what this independence "debate" has become. Its the clueless vs the more clueless.

Well you can't debate so you might as well take the P. Any better ideas?

[sids]

"Running scared" is a great phrase!

[weezer 316]

I utterly despair. We have become a nation of the most ignorant people imaginable. Not one person seems to actually have a clue what Scotlands or the UKs actual fiscal position is, yet the info is there. When pressed for details the SNP say there are too many unknowns, yet are happy to trumpet oil figures (based on unknown future oil prices) and how this would fund all sorts of services...services they ant give a detailed breakdown of because of unknowns

Meanwhile unionists are preparing for gunmen on hadrians wall singing swing low sweet chariot.

Its utterly cringeworthy. How the hell can an informed choice be made when nobody seems to actually care what the facts are?

[embow]

Fact or fiction?http://www.heraldscotland.com/commen...dence.22231521

[rob murray]

Golach of all people you are the last person that I would have taken as gutless. Afraid to stand on your own two feet and make your own decisions. That is all we (the yes voters) in Scotland are asking for. We can support ourselves, a fact which all political parties fully endorse. So come on wee hairy beasty, what are you afraid of?

I would imagine like thousands of people a compete lack of the details involved, Salmond expects us Scots to believe in the land of milk and honey put our faith and trust in him and his agenda, making up sound bite policy on the hoof, his own finance minister has publicly raised concerns over several of Salmonella's recent pledges that an independent Scotland will / can deliver. Salmon is a liability, personally I have a lot of time for Swinney who has proved a very competent "scottish chancellor" and if he has concerns...a lot of people should take notice. Blind faith in the fuhrer isnt the way to go !

[Gronnuck]

As has already been said on one of the many debates on this subject we cannot be sure what state the county is going to be in two, three or ten years from now regardless of who's in power. I've seen enough to become the archetype cynic; I feel it isn't going to make a blind bit o' difference how the vote goes since most politicians are only interested in what they can earn for themsleves while holding their seat. Trough, snout and pigs come to mind.

[squidge]

There is loads and loads of information available to those who wish to look. There were some key points made in the pensions paper and Golach, not one of those was to reduce the pension age to below 65. Rob says there is a complete lack of details but in this he is wrong - take this most recent paper - the detail is there. There are several key pieces of detail and here they are

1. Scotland spends less on Welfare and pensions as a share of GDP than the rest of the UK - In fact Scotland spends less than any other country in Europe except the Netherlands - again as a share of GDP. The UK spends 42% of its GDP on Welfare and pensions and Scotland spends 38%

2. Scotland's GDP is at 99% of the rest of the UK WITHOUT its share of the oil revenue being included.

3. In an Independent Scotland Pensions will continue to be paid as they are now. The Scottish Government commits to the triple lock system for pension increases for at least the whole of the first term of an Independent Scottish Government.

4. The paper commits Scotland to reexamining the pension age increases because Life expectancy is less in Scotland. This is where Golach is mistaken. There is no promise to reduce the State Pension Age to less than 65. What the paper says is that an Independent Commission will be established to look at whether the State Pension Age needs to increase to higher than 66 in Scotland.

There is a whole section on Private Pensions and Public Sector Pensions.

It seems to me that those who say Scotland cant afford to be Independent simply are ignoring the evidence and refusing to see the details. The Information is there - go look for it. If you cant find it then ASK. Not me lol - I dont know everything - go along to a YES wscotland meeting - email YES Scotland - they will reply. Email better together and ask them too and then see what you think. There is NO evidence that Scotland is anything other than a wealthy country and the suggestion that somehow in 5 years or 10 years the SNP or Alex Salmond will have run the economy into the ground when they have balanced the books for the last few years in a way that the UK has failed to do seems to me also to fly in the face of the evidence that there is when you look.

[ducati]

Trouble is, that SNP and (tarred with the same brush) the nationalists have shot themselves in the feet so comprehensively that it doesn't matter what facts or fiction they come up with, I and many many others don't believe them. The damage to the credibility is done and won't be undone. And yes, you can say the same for the unionists but they aren't trying to persuade people to change.

[tonkatojo]

"Running scared" is a great phrase!

Also a good song.

[tonkatojo]

I utterly despair. We have become a nation of the most ignorant people imaginable. Not one person seems to actually have a clue what Scotlands or the UKs actual fiscal position is, yet the info is there. When pressed for details the SNP say there are too many unknowns, yet are happy to trumpet oil figures (based on unknown future oil prices) and how this would fund all sorts of services...services they ant give a detailed breakdown of because of unknowns

Meanwhile unionists are preparing for gunmen on hadrians wall singing swing low sweet chariot.

Its utterly cringeworthy. How the hell can an informed choice be made when nobody seems to actually care what the facts are?

Here's a fact, Hadrians wall is not the Scottish/English border.

[squidge]

Trouble is, that SNP and (tarred with the same brush) the nationalists have shot themselves in the feet so comprehensively that it doesn't matter what facts or fiction they come up with, I and many many others don't believe them. The damage to the credibility is done and won't be undone. And yes, you can say the same for the unionists but they aren't trying to persuade people to change.

How have they shot themselves in the foot Ducati? You dont beleive them despite the evidence - And often this is not SCOTTISH Government evidence but UK Government evidence. How is what they are saying fiction? Where is the made up stuff Ducati? There may be conflicting evidence on particular issues but that isnt fiction. I choose to beleive that the MMR injection doesnt cause autism - others disagree. I have plenty of evidence that it doesnt and the others have evidence that it does. That doesnt make them liars, or make what they say fiction. It makes us disagree.

I asked recently why people think Scotland will be bankrupt - the only answers I was given were because I dont beleive the UK provided figures - something isnt right sort of thing and That Scotland is too stupid to manage its own budget.

There doesnt seem to be an attempt to say Scotland will be a land of milk and honey. The pension paper does not seek to hide the fact that there will be challenges, it discusses the things that need to happen and need to be addressed over the next 5, 10 years and beyond in order to meet these challenges just like any other INDEPENDENT NATION will have to do. Why do you think these decisions are better being made in Westminster rather than in Scotland by a Government elected and accountable to Scotland?

[ducati]

How have they shot themselves in the foot Ducati? You dont beleive them despite the evidence - And often this is not SCOTTISH Government evidence but UK Government evidence. How is what they are saying fiction? Where is the made up stuff Ducati? There may be conflicting evidence on particular issues but that isnt fiction. I choose to beleive that the MMR injection doesnt cause autism - others disagree. I have plenty of evidence that it doesnt and the others have evidence that it does. That doesnt make them liars, or make what they say fiction. It makes us disagree.

I asked recently why people think Scotland will be bankrupt - the only answers I was given were because I dont beleive the UK provided figures - something isnt right sort of thing and That Scotland is too stupid to manage its own budget.

There doesnt seem to be an attempt to say Scotland will be a land of milk and honey. The pension paper does not seek to hide the fact that there will be challenges, it discusses the things that need to happen and need to be addressed over the next 5, 10 years and beyond in order to meet these challenges just like any other INDEPENDENT NATION will have to do. Why do you think these decisions are better being made in Westminster rather than in Scotland by a Government elected and accountable to Scotland?

Yawn. I thought it was rude on a forum to address individuals?

[weezer 316]

How have they shot themselves in the foot Ducati? You dont beleive them despite the evidence - And often this is not SCOTTISH Government evidence but UK Government evidence. How is what they are saying fiction? Where is the made up stuff Ducati? There may be conflicting evidence on particular issues but that isnt fiction. I choose to beleive that the MMR injection doesnt cause autism - others disagree. I have plenty of evidence that it doesnt and the others have evidence that it does. That doesnt make them liars, or make what they say fiction. It makes us disagree.

I asked recently why people think Scotland will be bankrupt - the only answers I was given were because I dont beleive the UK provided figures - something isnt right sort of thing and That Scotland is too stupid to manage its own budget.

There doesnt seem to be an attempt to say Scotland will be a land of milk and honey. The pension paper does not seek to hide the fact that there will be challenges, it discusses the things that need to happen and need to be addressed over the next 5, 10 years and beyond in order to meet these challenges just like any other INDEPENDENT NATION will have to do. Why do you think these decisions are better being made in Westminster rather than in Scotland by a Government elected and accountable to Scotland?

Eh I did answer you before on the bankrupt question, you either didnt see it or ignored it. Here it is again: http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...16#post1048016