Reply With QuoteNo, I don't think it was a vote on a referendum. It was a vote on what a cobblers the Labour Gov. had made of things.Originally Posted by Oddquine
1K.Orger
We did............it was an integral part of the SNP manifesto for 2011. Just because you didn't notice it, doesn't mean it wasn't there.! Sheesh!
Banned
No, I don't think it was a vote on a referendum. It was a vote on what a cobblers the Labour Gov. had made of things.
1K.Orger
Did you not notice the SNP commitment to a referendum then Ducati?
1K.Orger
Oh I knew it was there and for that (and many other) reasons, I put my x elsewhere.What % of votes did SNP gain in 2011?What % of votes is required to gain independence?
W.A.T.P.
Banned
No, but I didn't vote for 'em either.
1K.Orger
If that is the case...why pretend it was something that was not flagged up ahead and you were unaware of the intention? Or are you so used to manifestos by UK parties not being worth the paper on which they are written?
1K.Orger
Where did I say that I was unaware of their intentions?
W.A.T.P.
1K.Orger
No because we need a bigger voice not a smaller one.
An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing
1K.Orger
good sound reasoning Ju, and simply stated.
Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more
1K.Orger
One reason for voting No is that the SNP will cease to exist if Independence happens. The SNP bring something fresh to the political scene. Their MSPs are a mixture of either side side of the left/right political spectrum and that is benefitting to Scotland.
The SNP work together just fine now but on independence they'll cross the floor to a political group where they'll feel more comfortable and we'll get the adversarial politics that is more common at Westminster.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
1K.Orger
We don't have a voice..how can it get smaller?!
1K.Orger
There are 52 Scottish Members of Parliament at the present moment, and 6 of them are nationalists how is that not a voice?
Last edited by golach; 09-Sep-13 at 13:41.
Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more
1K.Orger
No.....get it right... there are 46 members of UK political parties and just 6 members of the UK parliament who care more for Scotland than the UK...so that isn't a voice.....it is an illustration of a crap electoral system.
The FPTP set-up to to limit democracy is not, by definition, democracy. However a "Union" in which an amalgamation of the MPs of NI, Wales and Scotland can only defeat a Bill in the House with the help of the English MPs. That is not a Union, it is a colonisation. Nobody but England can decide UK policies....and they don't tend to consider the effect of London-centric policies on the UK peripheries...not just Scotland, but NI, Wales and the regions in the North of England as well. A Federal system is democracy in a Union. An English Parliament changing its name in 1707, but not its control of that new "Union" Parliament is not....amply illustrated by the fact that it is UK Westminster which votes on English only Bills.......because who needs English devolution when you are in charge of the whole shebang? I honestly can't understand how nobody can see that..I've been aware of the fact of England deciding for the Uk since my first year in Secondary school in Moray about fifty+ years ago.
In the last century, there have been many attempts to achieve at least Home Rule (but all have been defeated by the English MP majority starting within five years of the Treaty signing by the bought and paid for Scottish Parliament members). In an era today in which petitions to the UK parliament have to be at least considered if they have a relatively few compared to population signatories.(think 100,000).....the Scottish Convention with two MILLION signatories was ignored by the UK Parliament after WWII.....much as every mass protest has been ever since(going into Iraq is just one example).
Let's not play silly twonks, golach....the UK Government does what the UK Government thinks they can get away with, with the help of those who are British first..and they appear to think that what they can get away with is setting up the likes of McCalman to deliberate for yonks about how to go forward re Scotland and have everything they produce ignored. It's called fudging the issue to gain time to work out how they can get off with a lot less (as in the Scotland Act 2012..a sticking plaster which doesn't remotely cover the wound.).
Where was Scotland's voice when Ted Heath handed over our fishing waters to be raped by the EU? Where was Scotland's voice when Bliar decided to steal 6000 square miles of Scottish waters? Where was Scotland's voice when a UK Parliament imposed the poll-tax on us in contravention of the Union Treaty? Where was Scotland's voice when the bedroom tax was imposed? Where was Scotland's voice when we hurtled into Iraq hanging onto to the US coat-tails? When, and I'd appreciate some facts, has Scotland EVER had a voice since 1707 listened to by anyone? And what effect will Scotland's voice have if we vote NO in the "promised" EU referendum....and England votes to come out of the EU.....but we don't?
Just asking!
Last edited by Oddquine; 09-Sep-13 at 21:15.
1K.Orger
Ochone Ochone, your anti English bigotry is showing. I notice you make no mention, that without the help of our brothers down south,during the 2 World Wars we would be speaking German now. At least we Unionists do not support the IRA as your Nats and Eck does.
Last edited by golach; 09-Sep-13 at 22:33.
Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more
1K.Orger
They support the IRA, is that right ?
1K.Orger
Well Eck does
http://www.britainfirst.org/campaign...-the-79-group/
Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more
1K.Orger
There are roughly 10 people south of the border for every one that lives in Scotland and the the political system is one MP per so many people/ area so it's not rocket science to realise that Scotland would always be a small voice, just basic mathematics.
1K.Orger
I'm not anti-English....but I am definitely anti-rule by a dominant (of all nationalities) population in England via their votes in an undemocratic voting system......and their predominance of representatives in what is laughingly called a "Union" Parliament..or do you think that everybody living and voting in England is English? You sound kinda like them Americans and Israelis who think that if folk don't like the way their Government acts, they are anti-every single person living in the country. Did think we had more sense than that....but obviously not.
Excuse me...but what has WWII got to do with anything at all?
To quote you At least we Unionists do not support the IRA as your Nats and Eck does. Why do you so often talk such crap, golach? Got links to prove we pro-independence supporters, and Alex Salmond support the IRA? I'd be interested to read your links.
Your complete irrationality re the SNP is showing,.... I think.
1K.Orger
There you go, the link supplied by Golach - http://www.britainfirst.org/campaign...-the-79-group/
.Orger
I do not think those in power in Scotland are capable of running a raffle never mind a country, SNP are a shower of idiots ,
They make it up as they go along, basically fat shrek cod eyed cretin & odd bod got lucky by being elected & in my opinion they never dreamt in their wildest dreams theyd be in power so they are totally lacking in policies as they obviously didnt think they ever get in.
its happened & they have changed Scotland beyond ridiculous, for eg A gaelic sign in caithness costing stupid amounts while Kids in Ceyac in Wick have their days cut from 5 to 3 days a week ?? Special needs kids have a right to be educated too Gaelic signs are an unwanted waste of time here.
The licencing laws are ridiculous also, cant buy a drink from an off licence before 11 or after 10pm , the alkys get round this by stockpiling whereas occassional drinkers are penalised, cheers Alec , nugget
Independence, ?? whos gona pay for it ? the oil is running out ,
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