Your reasons for voting No in the Independence referendum

[rob murray]

You will never know as

a People can lie on their intent
b People need the full facts prior to making an informed decision ( 100% are in agreement we dont have access to the full facts over the key issues ) and wont commit through blind faith
c The decision will be by ballot process hence secret.

After the ballot you will know for definite, so just wait.

[squidge]

The OP asked us No voters to state why we are going that route. Why are the yes crowd coming here and trying get us to change our mind.....it will not work with me.

Im not trying to get anyone to change their mind. I just asked a question about a subject that interests me.

[neilsermk1]

I have yet to see anything which has even the passing resemblance of a convincing arguement for independence.

[orkneycadian]

Numerous reasons, but readily summed up by the pro's telling us in answer to our concerns "Of course we don't know what we are going to do come independence, silly, no one does. We have to vote for independence first, then figure it out." It strikes me that once we have voted for, and have become independent, then its a little too late to find out that the books will not balance.

So thats the summary. If you are interested, here are a smattering of issues that, as far as I am aware, have not been addressed. If a phone book sized document titled "Election Communication" covering these has dropped through the letterbox and has been eaten by the dog without my noticing, then apologies.

• What will happen to the Postal Service and the USO, assuming it survives that long. What will happen to postal charges for "international" posting
• What will happen to nationalised services and any USO's that they have - Whilst appreciating we have Scottish Gas and Electricity companies, but they operate under a national USO. British Telecom and Openreach are, however, distinctly national companies.
• What will our defence system be like? Will we have the back up of the UK, or are we "on our own now"
• Will national carriers, such as Fedex, TNT and the likes, be able to consider Scotland an International destination, and charge accordingly?
• What currency will we have to use? There appears uncertainty that sterling will remain.
• Will we be able to become members of the EU
• Will we actually want to become members of the EU? (The answer to that one being suitable may soften my resistence to independance)
• Will we be able to benefit from the NATO umbrella, should someone want to pick a fight with us?
• Will we actually be able to have any say in our government? A recent consultation on the licencing of air rifles returned 87% of consultees in opposition to licencing. The Scottish Government are pressing on with it anyway. Can we consider that to be democracy? Is that the way everything else is going to work when Eck and Nic get the ability to do what they want, without any interference from Westminster, or heaven forbid, the electorate?
• What does the financial "business plan" look like? Income streams such as oil revenue should be fairly predictable, and will obviously have a decaying away pattern to them. Meanwhile, on the radio today, we hear that 1/3 of households in Glasgow are officially "workless", and that that is the highest rate of any town in the UK. A business plan, similar to that which an entrepreneur would take to his or her bank manager detailing where our money will come from, and where it will go, over the next 20 or more years, would be helpful.
• What an independent Scotland would do to satisfy the desires of the electorate post independence. Will they re-introduce capital punishment if a referendum shows the majority of Scots wish it? Will they put measures in place to ban cold calling and unwanted emails, if the Scottish population wish it? Will they abort plans for average speed cameras on the A9 if the majority of Scots wish it? In short, will the people of Scotland be able to demand, and get, what they want?
• Will we be recognising EU Human Rights legislation? Or will we be telling all the thugs, rapists and murderers that "You should have thought about what prison or the death penalty might have been like before committing the crime"?
• Will we have a level playing field (or like some of our EU conterparts, dice loaded in our favour) when it comes to fishing and agricultural policies? Or are we going to have to continue to say "How High?" when Brussels says "Jump!", whilst observing other EU counties not bothering to even lift their feet off the ground.

Now, don't get me wrong. Independence is a huge opportunity to sort out a lot that is wrong with our country at the moment. But simply flying a saltire instead of a union jack is not a fix, other than for ego's. If the SNP would tell us what an independent Scotland is really going to be like, then they might be in with half a chance. Leaving us wondering, and telling us all these things will be considered post independence doesn't do it for us.

Somewhat akin to the entrepreneur mentioned above trying to persuade the bank manager give her the money anyway, even though there is no business plan. She can always sort it out later....

[equusdriving]

Numerous reasons, but readily summed up by the pro's telling us in answer to our concerns "off course we don't know what we are going to do come independence, silly, no one does. We have to vote for independence first, then figure it out. It strikes me that once we have voted for, and have become independent, then its a little too late to find out that the books will not balance.

So thats the summary. If you are interested, here are a smattering of issues that, as far as I am aware, have not bee addressed. If a phone book sized document titled "Election Communication" covering these has dropped through the letterbox and has been eaten by the dog without my noticing, then apologies.

• What will happen to the Postal Service and the USO, assuming it survives that long. What will happen to postal charges for "international" posting
• What will happen to nationalised services and any USO's that they have - Whilst appreciating we have Scottish Gas and Electricity companies, but they operate under a national USO. British Telecom and Openreach are, however, distinctly national companies.
• What will our defence system be like? Will we have the back up of the UK, or are we "on our own now"
• Will National carriers, such as Fedex, TNT and the likes, be able to consider Scotland an International destination, and charge accordingly?
• What currency will we have to use? There appears uncertainty that sterling will remain.
• Will we be able to become members of the EU
• Will we actually want to become members of the EU? (The answer to that one being suitable may soften my resistence to independance)
• Will we be able to benefit from the NATO umbrella, should someone want to pick a fight with us?
• Will we actually be able to have any say in our government? A recent consultation on the licencing of air rifles returned 87% of consultees in opposition to licencing. The Scottish Government are pressing on with it anyway. Can we consider that to be democracy? Is that the way everything else is going to work when Eck and Nic get the ability to do what they want, without any interference from Westminster, or heaven forbid, the electorate?
• What does the financial "business plan" look like? Income streams such as oil revenue should be fairly predictable, and will obviously have a decaying away pattern to it. Meanwhile, on the radio today, we hear that 1/3 of households in Glasgow are officially "workless". A business plan, similar to that that a entrepreneur would take to his or her bank manager detailing where our money will come from, and where it will go, over the next 20 or more years, would be helpful.
• What an independent Scotland would do to satisfy the desires of the electorate post independence. Will they re-introduce capital punishment if a referendum shows the majority of Scots wish it? Will they put measures in place to ban cold calling and unwanted emails, if the Scottish population wish it? Will they abort plans for average speed cameras on the A9 if the majority of Scots wish it? In short, will the people of Scotland be able to demand, and get, what they want?
• Will we be recognising EU Human Rights legislation? Or will we be telling all the thugs, rapists and murderers that "You should have thought about what prison or the death penalty might have been like before committing the crime"?
• Will we have a level playing field (or like some of our EU conterparts, dice loaded in our favour) when it comes to fishing and agricultural policies? Or are we going to have to continue to say "How High?" when Brussels says "Jump!", whilst observing other EU counties not bothering to even lift their feet off the ground.

Now, don't get me wrong. Independence is a huge opportunity to sort out a lot that is wrong with our country at the moment. But flying a saltire instead of a union jack is not a fix, other than for ego's. If the SNP would tell us what an independent Scotland is really going to be like, then they might be in with half a chance. Leaving us wondering, and telling us all these things will be considered post independence doesn't do it for us.

Somewhat akin to the entrepreneur mention above trying to give her the money anyway, even though there is no business plan. She can always sort it out later....

very well put

[Humerous Vegetable]

This would be the NATO umbrella currently protecting innocent Syrian civilians, would it?

[Kenn]

Hitler had charisma ! I've read some strange statements but that has to be one of the weirdest.

[outsidethebox]

Hitler had charisma ! I've read some strange statements but that has to be one of the weirdest.

apparently one of the most charismatic people of his time, how else do you think he got so many people to support him in the first place?

Just because he became a delussional psychopathic murdering racist scumbag does not mean that he could not have charisma.

[Big Gaz]

I'm still not decided myself, every time i see a reason to vote yes, a possible reason against it crops up so at the moment i'm hovering around the no side by about 40/60. My only major concern for the moment is that of a case of most people just blindly voting yes just to get rid of the English and the Tories and we do get independence. Don't get me wrong though, I do like the idea of an independent Scotland but there are many issues i still haven't seen addressed yet and they worry me enough to consider voting no

[orkneycadian]

This would be the NATO umbrella currently protecting innocent Syrian civilians, would it?

A couple of points;

1. Syria is not a member of NATO, or even an alliance partner
2. NATO is an alliance of member states who have signed up to a collective defence arrangement.

Technically then, NATO's only real interest in Syria, would be if there was a threat of attack, or to the national security of one of its members, or of citizens of a member state. I agree however that in the past some of the definitions have been less than clear cut, and its hard to see where the member state boundaries stop, and being the "heavies" for the UN starts.

At this point in time, the UN have not yet published their findings, so its all hypothesis at the moment anyway, and fodder for another thread on here!

[ducati]

I'm still not decided myself, every time i see a reason to vote yes, a possible reason against it crops up so at the moment i'm hovering around the no side by about 40/60. My only major concern for the moment is that of a case of most people just blindly voting yes just to get rid of the English and the Tories and we do get independence. Don't get me wrong though, I do like the idea of an independent Scotland but there are many issues i still haven't seen addressed yet and they worry me enough to consider voting no

Sorry Big Gaz, you won't be getting rid of the English.

[orkneycadian]

Back on topic.....

I am also uncertain that any "business plan" that might be forthcoming will show the hidden costs that are not met by the Scottish Government. For example, things like hikes in postal charges, driving licence applications, personal tax rates and the likes. Things that will hit the Scot in the street in the pocket, but will not necessarily show up on the Governments accounts.

[Big Gaz]

Sorry Big Gaz, you won't be getting rid of the English.

Dang!!

[ducati]

One of my many reasons for voting no are the attitudes of people like oddquinn.

[billmoseley]

One of my many reasons for voting no are the attitudes of people like oddquinn.

a very good point. i was opened minded at first but the way some of the yes campaigners have tried to bully people makes me just want to dig my heels in

[Big Gaz]

One of my many reasons for voting no are the attitudes of people like oddquinn.

I am not paying attention to any of the drivel on here, it will take a lot more than the caithness.org whimper squad to sway my decision for a yes or no vote. I want the facts, both for and against, plainly laid out and in laymans terms with none of the bovine excretion scaremongering. Not too much to ask is it? After all, if independence does happen and it all goes pear-shaped, there's only one nation (and a load of orgers) to blame!

[Oddquine]

One of my many reasons for voting no are the attitudes of people like oddquinn.

So what is it about my attitude which makes you lie through your teeth? I read here a long time before I came back and posted again in May 2011......and you have never appeared to be in any way open to being anything but pro-Union/Conservative and one of those who could be almost guaranteed to vote NO in the referendum.....so given I was reading you well before I posted on here again...how come I'm being blamed for YOUR decisions? Don't you have the courage of your own convictions?

My attitude is that if pro-Unionists insult and denigrate...as you have always done, to a greater or lesser extent...and as you have done in the quoted post, you can expect the same back......though I think I make a much better fist of being polite than you manage most of the time.

[Tangerine-Dream]

Alex Salmond is a nob end and that Nicola Sturgeon mouthpiece is as common as muck...... that's my reason for saying NO. What we SHOULD be discussing is a way to get this (once great) union united again....... breaking it into pieces is doing nobody any favours apart from fat little men like Alex Salmond who will "personally" prosper.... the rest of the Scottish population won't know what's hit them once our English "friends" are no longer subsidising everything........ Free prescriptions today, I wonder how much they will be "if" Mr. Salmond gets the "power" he is seeking? Scottish oil?........ How's he going to tell the rest of the world (who are extracting it) to get lost? Believe it or not, the oil has got sod all to do with men in kilts...... the big boys are in there extracting it and they aren't going to hand it over to Alex Salmond...... Whisky and sheep, yep, that will really make Scotland a Global force to be reckoned with. If I see that Nicola Sturgeon's face on the TV one more time I think I'll throw it out of the window..... as common as muck! Give me her Royal Majesty any day over that little Glasgow bauchle. I won't be voting "NO" I'll be SHOUTING "NO!"..... if enough knuckleheads vote "YES" and these clowns get into "power" I'll be moving out of Scotland pronto........ Bulgaria would be a more attractive proposition, maybe even Syria.

Anyhoo.... that's MY reason for voting no.

[Tangerine-Dream]

BTW if I receive an "infraction" for calling Alex Salmond a "nob end" I will be right onto the European commission for human rights

[Big Gaz]

Aye, i guess theres the other side of the coin for all the NO voters too. Such as "Will you stay in Scotland or move out if it gets independence?" there's so many pros and cons, it's difficult to even find a starting point!