Your reasons for voting No in the Independence referendum

**Oddquine** · 03-Sep-13, 22:20

This is aimed at the nay-sayers on here....and you know who you are. You all know why those of us who support independence do so, even if you have all made it obvious that you don't agree.......but none of you (bar gollach with his pension paranoia) have ever said why you intend to vote NO.

I don't expect, given your posts on the subject, that your minds can be changed......but I'd really be interested to know why you want to remain in the Union.

**golach** · 03-Sep-13, 22:24

Originally Posted by Oddquine

This is aimed at the nay-sayers on here....and you know who you are. You all know why those of us who support independence do so, even if you have all made it obvious that you don't agree.......but none of you (bar gollach with his pension paranoia) have ever said why you intend to vote NO.

I don't expect, given your posts on the subject, that your minds can be changed......but I'd really be interested to know why you want to remain in the Union.

If your going to mention me,..........at least spell my name correctly

**Alrock** · 03-Sep-13, 22:25

I think you'll find that fear of the unknown plays a large part, also the misconception that a vote for independence equates to a vote for the SNP & in particular Alex Salmond.

**mi16** · 03-Sep-13, 22:31

Originally Posted by Oddquine

This is aimed at the nay-sayers on here....and you know who you are. You all know why those of us who support independence do so, even if you have all made it obvious that you don't agree.......but none of you (bar gollach with his pension paranoia) have ever said why you intend to vote NO.

I don't expect, given your posts on the subject, that your minds can be changed......but I'd really be interested to know why you want to remain in the Union.

because I am proud to be a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

**golach** · 03-Sep-13, 22:35

Originally Posted by mi16

because I am proud to be a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Will second that mi16

**Kenn** · 03-Sep-13, 22:40

Simple, I have yet to see any sort of breakdown of how Scotland would be able to fund it's self .

**outsidethebox** · 03-Sep-13, 22:40

because the yes campaign have not yet put forward one good reason to vote yes

**cptdodger** · 03-Sep-13, 23:20

Originally Posted by mi16

because I am proud to be a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Well said mi16, and same here. And to be honest Oddquine, that's all you need to know, because it is not us that wants to change anything, it is you and the rest of the people that want independence to prove to us, without any shadow of a doubt why we should change our minds. This Referendum business has caused more harm to this country (Scotland) than anything I have seen in a long time. It has caused so much ill feeling between people, that you should really be asking yourself - is it worth it?

**equusdriving** · 03-Sep-13, 23:35

Originally Posted by cptdodger

Well said mi16, and same here. And to be honest Oddquine, that's all you need to know, because it is not us that wants to change anything, it is you and the rest of the people that want independence to prove to us, without any shadow of a doubt why we should change our minds. This Referendum business has caused more harm to this country (Scotland) than anything I have seen in a long time. It has caused so much ill feeling between people, that you should really be asking yourself - is it worth it?

well said and spot on

**lesley_mac** · 03-Sep-13, 23:38

if for any unknowen reason we do get independence can you tell me how the queen is still going to be our queen so at the end of the day we arent getting independence its just alex salmond filling his pockets

**Rheghead** · 03-Sep-13, 23:49

The UK has a Voice, an independent Scotland will have a whisper

**macadamia** · 04-Sep-13, 00:42

Reading threatening comments by the Cybernats of limited intelligence along the lines of "we know where you live" in the "Yes Scotland" and "SNP" pages on Facebook is one very solid reason I would not wish to cast my lot with such people, and the kind of demagogic leadership stirring them up (from behind, of course). There is real ugliness here which has more to do with a crude tribalism than with a healthy regard for the future.

**cptdodger** · 05-Sep-13, 10:23

Originally Posted by cptdodger

Well said mi16, and same here. And to be honest Oddquine, that's all you need to know, because it is not us that wants to change anything, it is you and the rest of the people that want independence to prove to us, without any shadow of a doubt why we should change our minds. This Referendum business has caused more harm to this country (Scotland) than anything I have seen in a long time. It has caused so much ill feeling between people, that you should really be asking yourself - is it worth it?

I rest my case. And with still over a year to go until the Referendum, it is just going to get worse.

**weezer 316** · 05-Sep-13, 12:11

I havent posted here in a while, but here is why.

Common Language
Shared history
Common culture
UK is powerful, Scotland is not
Larger economy, less dependent on one large volatile commodity, broader shoulders and all that
Complete and utter lack of clarity over what and Independent Scotland would look like. I wont chuck my future away on a point of principle
Huge, potentially utterly crippling blackhole in Scotland budget that I havent heard an argument about how we will deal with
Already have control over most things (NHS, Schools, law etc)
EU membership????
Division is the past, coming togetehr is the future.

If the Yes campaign were to lay out who we could for example become denmark then Id vote yes in a haertbeat, but such has been the complete failure of the Yes campaign its hard to see how they can restore credibility now.

Most people my age agree. Grown up with poeple and services coming from all over the world, we dont see "Scottishness" as even being a thing really. Its a bit like religion, its all in your head.

**Oddquine** · 05-Sep-13, 14:56

Originally Posted by cptdodger

I rest my case. And with still over a year to go until the Referendum, it is just going to get worse.

However informing the undecideds and those who would have voted for devo-max, if it had been allowed to be on offer is where the difference in numbers between a yes or a no vote and success or failure for one or the other side lies, cptdodger.

Many pro-Unionists appear to think that if they do nothing but scaremonger, lie, misrepresent, and from time to time insult, while pooh-poohing information directly taken from Government figures and facts, because they are not interpreted in favour of the Union, the majority of undecided people will on the day, vote for the devil they know...and it will be no change.

You saw how well a negative, vituperative campaign against the SNP by the Labour Party worked in the 2011 Scottish elections.....are all of you who will definitely vote NO next year, prepared to assume the same type of result won't happen again this time round?

The difference on here between the two POVs is glaring......the pro-Independents among us are trying to have a debate to inform the voters and clear up misconceptions as to fact, as best as we can ahead of the White Papers to come.....and the pro-Unionists are stifling that debate, just as they do elsewhere on the internet.

**equusdriving** · 05-Sep-13, 15:39

Originally Posted by Oddquine

the pro-Independents among us are trying to have a debate to inform the voters and clear up misconceptions as to fact, as best as we can ahead of the White Papers to come.....

yes and now tell us the one about the three bears

**outsidethebox** · 05-Sep-13, 16:39

Originally Posted by Oddquine

However informing the undecideds and those who would have voted for devo-max, if it had been allowed to be on offer is where the difference in numbers between a yes or a no vote and success or failure for one or the other side lies, cptdodger.

Many pro-Unionists appear to think that if they do nothing but scaremonger, lie, misrepresent, and from time to time insult, while pooh-poohing information directly taken from Government figures and facts, because they are not interpreted in favour of the Union, the majority of undecided people will on the day, vote for the devil they know...and it will be no change.

You saw how well a negative, vituperative campaign against the SNP by the Labour Party worked in the 2011 Scottish elections.....are all of you who will definitely vote NO next year, prepared to assume the same type of result won't happen again this time round?

The difference on here between the two POVs is glaring......the pro-Independents among us are trying to have a debate to inform the voters and clear up misconceptions as to fact, as best as we can ahead of the White Papers to come.....and the pro-Unionists are stifling that debate, just as they do elsewhere on the internet.

The SNP wanted to include the Devo-max option to cloud the issue, and to try and squeeze a yes vote for something which was not what they actually wanted. It would have made a fair referendum impossible. They as a party stand for "Nationalism" the clue is in the name :-)

If they wanted further powers for the Scottish Parliament, and not independence then they should have engaged with all parties and demanded those powers from Westminster. They did not wish to do that, and indeed where quite obstructive of the Scotland Bill which gave greatly increased powers to Holyrood. So their spurious devo-max charade was kicked into touch, and the people living in Scotland are now quite rightly being given a straight choice between remaining part of the union, and becoming independent.

It would be good if the SNP therefore gave some honest and compelling reasons to the electorate to allow them to make an informed decision as to which way to vote. So far we havehad plenty of smoke and mirrors, we have had bluster and lies, we have had ridiculous claims about how the world is going to bend over backwards to give wee 'eck all that he wants, and that nothing is going to stand in the way of his grand plans. Unfortunately the truth and reality are very different to the pretty pictures they are trying to paint.

So if the SNP want to change the status quo they need to start treating the people of Scotland as grown ups, stop simply promising them everything they think people might want and start telling us what they would like to see an Independent Scotland look like.

The only way in which the unionist parties (and incidentally the federalist parties) are currently stifling debate is by showing up all the grand plans as so much hot air and downright lies.

If, and that is a big if that I cannot see happening, they start to treat people with courtesy, with honesty, with integrity then, and only the will they have any chance of persuading people to follow their grand plan.

**cptdodger** · 05-Sep-13, 17:08

Originally Posted by Oddquine

Many pro-Unionists appear to think that if they do nothing but scaremonger, lie, misrepresent, and from time to time insult, while pooh-poohing information directly taken from Government figures and facts, because they are not interpreted in favour of the Union, the majority of undecided people will on the day, vote for the devil they know...and it will be no change.

I have never done that. You asked for "reasons" as to why we are voting no, then that turned that into "excuses" What exactly are we supposed to be excusing ourselves for, we have done nothing wrong, apart from having a different opinion from you it seems. You wo'nt even accept the reasons you have been given, yes I am proud to be British, and I do not care who knows that. If you are not, that's fine, forgive me for saying this, but it's a big world out there, go and find somewhere else you can change and be proud of. Just do'nt ask the question then belittle people , because it is not the answers you want to hear.

**Hoida** · 04-Sep-13, 11:29

Originally Posted by mi16

because I am proud to be a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

I agree with mi16 wholeheartedly.

**equusdriving** · 03-Sep-13, 23:19

Originally Posted by Oddquine

This is aimed at the nay-sayers on here....and you know who you are.

as apposed to all the thousands of nay-sayers across Scotland?

You all know why those of us who support independence do so

oh do we? would that be because of the draconian bigoted anti-british/anti-english chip on your shoulder?

because you sure haven't given any valid fact based reasons

but none of you (bar gollach with his pension paranoia) have ever said why you intend to vote NO.

if you bothered reading the posts you would see, its quite simple really

I don't expect, given your posts on the subject, that your minds can be changed

unlike you, my mind could be changed,but it would take solid facts and figures and answers, not the usual fingers crossed, wait and see and it cant be any worse than it is now drivel you lot continuously spout

......but I'd really be interested to know why you want to remain in the Union

somehow I dont believe that