Nor Scot

[Partan]

SNP lying comes from the very top of their party.

I was speaking recently to an eminent professor of economics, who happens to be a friend of Ugly Fat Eck. Apparently, it's very difficult to stay friends with Eck because of the continuous lies he spouts about the economics of secession. The professor has explained to Fat Eck why his claims are lies on very many occasions, but Eck still repeats them both in public and to the professor of economics!

Unsubstantiated playground drivel, devoid of intellect and integrity.

Partan

[squidge]

Yes, thats pretty positive, upbeat and optimistic! !

Not as upbeat and optimistic as this.... From this publication in March 2013.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...l-strategy.pdf

"However, amongst the general public, the oil and gas industry is currently perceived as a “sunset industry” which makes a diminishing contribution to the UK economy. It is incorrectly perceived that the industry faces an unsustainable future and that it is coming to the end of its life. If this perception persists, talented individuals might overlook the industry; compounding the skills shortage.According to Oil & Gas UK’s Activity Survey, the reality is that the UK will continue to supply oil and gas well beyond 2055.On the long term demand side, even ifthe International Agency’s “New Policies Scenario” is met, global demand for oil and gas is forecast to increase by 28% between now and 2035"

I will say again, its not all about oil - Scotland's economy OR the reasons for voting YES. . If that is the basis on which you decise how to gote orkneycadien then fine but it is different things for me and many others.


Ducati, you are right if Scotland was a region of England the figures I showed would not be of any use at all. If we were not facing a referendum on independence it would not be pertinent but we are.

Scotland now has a choice about what is best for Scotland and one of those issues is how accountable the Government would be to Scots Voters. The information about the influence of Scots voters on UK general elections is absolutely pertinent to that point. We have the OPPORTUNITY to choose a democracy which is closer and more accountable to the people of Scotland. Nothing which I posted was a lie. The figures shown are correct. The statement that we would have a government that we could vote out of office in a way we cannot do now, is correct.


Phill suggests that voters in rural scotland would be ignored by an Independent Scotland but they number almost 20% of the Scottish Electorate so not so easy to ignore. In addition, if we secure a YES result then we will be able to vote for the party who best supports rural Scotland.

[golach]

Phill suggests that voters in rural scotland would be ignored by an Independent Scotland but they number almost 20% of the Scottish Electorate so not so easy to ignore. In addition, if we secure a YES result then we will be able to vote for the party who best supports rural Scotland.

Squidge, with all your knowledge, pray tell us what party will that be. Surely not the SNP from their record up until now.

[squidge]

Well Golach, lets see

It might be the Green party with their support of less centralisation, It might be the SDA as they have started to field candidates. It might be the Scottish Labour Party or the Scottish Conservatives, it could be the monster raving loony party or a party which appears on the electoral scene after the referendum.

The point is Golach that the referendum is a vote for the type of democracy we want to have in Scotland NOT the party we want to lead the Government. The vote for which party will lead Scotland into Independence will take place in 2016 and you can vote for the party of your choice, based on their position on decentralisation, on immigration, on oil, on welfare, on defence or whatever else is important to you.

The referendum asks whether you agree Scotland should be independent or not. Thats it, thats the only question. After that WE get to choose who governs our country. We -the scottish voters - decide, no one else.

[golach]

The referendum asks whether you agree Scotland should be independent or not. Thats it, thats the only question. After that WE get to choose who governs our country. We -the scottish voters - decide, no one else.

I have already decided which way I am voting

[squidge]

You have already decided who you are voting for in the 2016 elections? Given you havent seen much in the way of manifestos then ... Erm ... Good for you!

Or, oh goodness me, perhaps you mean the referendum. Have you Golach? Really? ( she says wide eyed and surprised looking like) I NEVER Would have guessed that lol.


Golach, old friend, I know .... You didnt have to tell me x

[Humerous Vegetable]

Unsubstantiated playground drivel, devoid of intellect and integrity.

Partan

Well said. I am constantly tempted to put this secrets person on ignore, but it would cut down on the number of small spurtles I can feel sorry for.

[equusdriving]

In addition, if we secure a YES result then we will be able to vote for the party who best supports rural Scotland.

and still get the government that the other 80% of the population want???????????????

[orkneycadian]

I will say again, its not all about oil - Scotland's economy OR the reasons for voting YES. . If that is the basis on which you decise how to gote orkneycadien then fine but it is different things for me and many others.

As the original poster kicked off the thread comparing Scotland and Norway, and their oil reserves, then at the moment, yes I do think it is about oil. However, in addition to that, in being asked to consider voting next year, there should be a rational reason for voting one way or another. Knowing that we will have a sustainable economy is very important to many of us.

The document you link to paints an extremely varied picture. Mainly, it appears to set out aspirations - i.e what its authours would like, rather than what might actually be the case. Its a bit contradictory as well. In section 2, there is an aspiration to maximise recovery of oil and gas, with a hope that by 2040 it will still be meeting 70% of our energy demand. Meanwhile, in section 3, we are advised that the oil and gas industry (at present I assume) meets almost half of our primary energy needs.

So, it meets nearly half of our needs at the moment, and is expected to still be supplying 70% of our needs come 2040.

Meanwhile, demand for oil and gas will have risen significantly. So, apart from finding another Brent, Piper or Forties, how are we going to go from nearly half at the moment, to 70% in 27 years?

[golach]

You have already decided who you are voting for in the 2016 elections? Given you havent seen much in the way of manifestos then ... Erm ... Good for you!

Or, oh goodness me, perhaps you mean the referendum. Have you Golach? Really? ( she says wide eyed and surprised looking like) I NEVER Would have guessed that lol.
Golach, old friend, I know .... You didnt have to tell me x

Even if there is a chance that the Independent crowd mange to win, and thats a big IF. I will still know what to vote Squidge lol

[secrets in symmetry]

Even if there is a chance that the Independent crowd mange to win, and thats a big IF. I will still know what to vote Squidge lol

The secessionists won't win. The people of Scotland have seen through them already.

[mi16]

I see the latest opinion polls indicate the Unionist camp are extending their lead over the republican rebels.

[sam09]

Yes but... So doing my own research and using existing knowledge of the dynamic of employment in Scotland.

The biggest employer is (probably) the NHS., numbers two to twenty are (probably) local authorities. I doubt if a private sector employer makes it into the top 30. So, employers 1 to 30 are paid for by the people working for employers (getting ever smaller) 31 to whatever. So you tell me, how can that be sustainable?

BTW if you look up Scottish Insider 500 you will find there are some very small businesss in the top 500 Scottish private companies. (and an awful lot of English ones).

Surely you mean U.K. companies ducati? After all England is a region of the U.K.

[mi16]

Companies are listed by country not the union

[sam09]

Companies are listed by country not the union

Are you trying to say that England is a seperate country from The Union?
England is only a region of the U.K.

[mi16]

Are you trying to say that England is a seperate country from The Union?England is only a region of the U.K.

Whatever, regional then
However if you wish to be a pedant it is actually the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland not the U.K. as you state.

[ducati]

Surely you mean U.K. companies ducati? After all England is a region of the U.K.

No, I mean English companies. Ones with HOs in London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and so forth. You won't find very many major employers headquartered in Wales or Northern Ireland either.

[sam09]

No, I mean English companies. Ones with HOs in London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and so forth. You won't find very many major employers headquartered in Wales or Northern Ireland either.

It is often wrongly interpreted that Scotland is subsidised by the rest of the UK, because public spending is £1,200 higher per head than in other parts of the country. However, on average Scots generate £10,700 per head in taxes compared to £9,000 per head in the rest of the United Kingdom, meaning Scotland actually receives £500 less back from Westminster than it contributes.^[68] Furthermore, in February 2012, the Centre for Economics and Business Research concluded that "Scotland receives no net subsidy".^[69] Overall, Scotland generates 9.9% (£56.9bn) of the UK's tax revenues with just 8.4% of the UK population. It receives 9.3% (£64.5bn) of spending, which, although a budget deficit, is considerably smaller than that of the rest of the United Kingdom. Over the past thirty years, Scotland has also contributed a relative budget surplus of almost £20 billion to the UK economy.^[70][71] In the final quarter of 2012, the Scottish economy recorded 0.5% growth, outperforming the United Kingdom, which recorded a contraction of 0.3%.^[2] Scotland also outperforms the rest of the United Kingdom in both employment and unemployment levels, with the Scottish unemployment rate currently standing at 7.1% as of June 2013, well below the UK figure of 7.8%. Scotland's youth unemployment rate is much lower as well, standing at 15.2% compared to 19.5% for the rest of the UK. The employment rate is also higher north of the border, standing at 72.2% in comparison with the UK figure of 71.5%.^[72]
In the run up to the Scottish independence referendum, opinions on the likely state of a post-UK Scottish economy are varied. Some commentators believe that a current account surplus would accrue to Scotland (including oil and gas revenues).^[73] In response, a spokesman for finance secretary John Swinney referred to “the UK’s deteriorating growth outlook" and noted that Scotland was the only area of the UK outside London to record output growth between 2007 and 2010 and that "among the 12 nations and regions of the UK, Scotland is the third most prosperous in terms of output per head in 2013 – behind only London and the South East of England.”^[74] (According to Office of National Statistics data, Scotland was also outperformed by the South West region of England for the period 2007-13.)^[75]

[squidge]

I read a collections of quotes for how Scotland performs and would perform under Independence.

“I have no time for those who say there is no way Scotland could go it alone. I know first-hand the contribution Scotland and Scots make to Britain’s success – so for me there’s no question about whether Scotland could be an independent nation.” (David Cameron, February 2013)

“The question is not whether Scotland can survive as a separate state. Of course it could” (Alistair Darling, June 2012)

“I reject the arguments that some people make on my side that Scotland is too poor and too stupid. ‘Cos I don’t think it is. I think it’s well capable of being a vibrant, successful nation.“ (Willie Rennie, July 2013)

“It is insulting to suggest, as many Labour politicians do, that, while Norway, Sweden and Denmark can exist happily on their own, Scotland could not. Of course Scotland can survive on her own; she is a strong and capable country full of brilliant and talented people.” (Tory MP Eleanor Laing, November 2012)

“This isn’t a question of whether or not Scotland could go it alone — of course Scotland could.” (George Osborne and Danny Alexander, April 2013)

“No-one from Better Together thinks that Scotland couldn’t go it alone.” (unnamed Better Together “spokesman”, April 2013)


Interestingly these people who support the Union and actively campaign for a NO vote seem to think that Scotland would do very well out of independence and yet the armchair doom mongers and the hoard of (imaginary?) friends that Secrets has in almost every walk of life and every area of the country and every sector of business and industry seem to think that Scotland will fall apart almost the day after the referendum.

A panelbase poll published today and reported in the Daily Record showed support for Yes is at 44 per cent compared with 43 per cent for No, and 13 per cent who do not know, among 908 Scottish adults who are most likely or certain to vote. Even when you added in those who are uncertain and less likely to vote the result was 41 per cent backing Yes, 42 per cent for No and 17 per cent who do not know.

Its interesting to see this reported as it seems that polls which show results where the gap is closing in favour of Independence are studiously ignored by the main stream media so well done to the Daily Record for publishing this. The polls are all over the place - it will be fun to watch how they go as we approach the 1 year to go date. Everything to play for methinks.

[equusdriving]

I read a collections of quotes for how Scotland performs and would perform under Independence.

“I have no time for those who say there is no way Scotland could go it alone. I know first-hand the contribution Scotland and Scots make to Britain’s success – so for me there’s no question about whether Scotland could be an independent nation.” (David Cameron, February 2013)

“The question is not whether Scotland can survive as a separate state. Of course it could” (Alistair Darling, June 2012)

“I reject the arguments that some people make on my side that Scotland is too poor and too stupid. ‘Cos I don’t think it is. I think it’s well capable of being a vibrant, successful nation.“ (Willie Rennie, July 2013)

“It is insulting to suggest, as many Labour politicians do, that, while Norway, Sweden and Denmark can exist happily on their own, Scotland could not. Of course Scotland can survive on her own; she is a strong and capable country full of brilliant and talented people.” (Tory MP Eleanor Laing, November 2012)

“This isn’t a question of whether or not Scotland could go it alone — of course Scotland could.” (George Osborne and Danny Alexander, April 2013)

“No-one from Better Together thinks that Scotland couldn’t go it alone.” (unnamed Better Together “spokesman”, April 2013)


Interestingly these people who support the Union and actively campaign for a NO vote seem to think that Scotland would do very well out of independence and yet the armchair doom mongers and the hoard of (imaginary?) friends that Secrets has in almost every walk of life and every area of the country and every sector of business and industry seem to think that Scotland will fall apart almost the day after the referendum.

A panelbase poll published today and reported in the Daily Record showed support for Yes is at 44 per cent compared with 43 per cent for No, and 13 per cent who do not know, among 908 Scottish adults who are most likely or certain to vote. Even when you added in those who are uncertain and less likely to vote the result was 41 per cent backing Yes, 42 per cent for No and 17 per cent who do not know.

Its interesting to see this reported as it seems that polls which show results where the gap is closing in favour of Independence are studiously ignored by the main stream media so well done to the Daily Record for publishing this. The polls are all over the place - it will be fun to watch how they go as we approach the 1 year to go date. Everything to play for methinks.

so just because we could survive after Independence , is not a valid reason to vote for Independence where is any proof that we would be better off or at least no worse off after Independence