Nor Scot

[equusdriving]

Ill respond to your posts with answers to questions you ask but as soon as you start being a numpty and picking at words and their meaning Im off.

what did you say previously about name calling, when you last chucked your toys out of the pram for not being agreed with? HYPOCRITE comes to mind.

bye now, missing you already

[squidge]

Prod prod prod ........ What do they say? Dont feed the troll?

Like I say when you have a serious point to make, Ill happily chat and discuss the issues but I dont know why you bother to be honest. You are always slagging me off - Im apparently a liar and now a hypocrite too . I have no idea why you find me such a despicable human being and although I have tried to find out what your problem with me is you blank me on that too.

I give up ok... I cant be bothered with your nastiness any more. I disagree with Golach,Rheghead, Lizz and others but I dont mind that they have different views to me and we have a friendly relationship otherwise, Im sure they would agree. J have tried to be friendly with you too but you seem determined to be as mean as possible and I havent the energy to deal with you just now.

[equusdriving]

Prod prod prod ........ What do they say? Dont feed the troll?

Like I say when you have a serious point to make, Ill happily chat and discuss the issues but I dont know why you bother to be honest. You are always slagging me off - Im apparently a liar and now a hypocrite too . I have no idea why you find me such a despicable human being and although I have tried to find out what your problem with me is you blank me on that too.

I give up ok... I cant be bothered with your nastiness any more. I disagree with Golach,Rheghead, Lizz and others but I dont mind that they have different views to me and we have a friendly relationship otherwise, Im sure they would agree. J have tried to be friendly with you too but you seem determined to be as mean as possible and I havent the energy to deal with you just now.

you are a hypocrite, when someone calls you a name you don't stop bleating about it, but its fine for you to do it, dry your eyes and get over yourself
P.S if you really are that sensitive block me(again) and stop PM ing me

[squidge]

There has been an interesting development in the "on the streets" campaigning.

It appears that in several places where Yes Scotland have applied to have a stall or a presence and been given permission to do so they have had their permission withdrawn because Better Together Stalls cant find enough volunteers to man their stall. This has a couple of times not been communicated to the YES Scotland campaigners until they arrive and set up - they are then asked to take their stall down because the Better Together Stall hasnt turned up or has called to say they cant get volunteers.

In a separate development the official Better Together Webpage and Facebook page has been criticised for deleting posts which question what they are saying on any particular subject and then banning people from posting again - even when they are polite and not offensive. This banning seems to be happening to people who are not posting pro independence stuff in the form of adverts or links to pro independence articles and the like - I could understand that - but it is happening to people who simply ask a question of an original post. An example was a post about the BBC licence fee which said that they had to withdraw a leaflet because "nationalists complained that we used the BBC logo without permission". I asked a question which said "Can you tell me how you knew that it was complaints by nationalists rather than the BBC themselves who asked you to withdraw and amend the leaflet" I hadnt posted before and I wasnt rude and yet my question was deleted and I was banned from posting again.

It seems to be a huge issue on the Better together page with - its reported 30% of posts censored compared to 11% on the Yes Scotland page in June alone. Now I know its their page and they can run it how they want but it seems a bit heavy handed to me. In addition you could say that is because the "terrible cybernats"(yawnnnnn) are at it and yet I cant see how that would be when other Pro Union pages dont seem to be censoring the same amount of posts. Again Im not sure what I think about this and would be interested in other people's opininons.

[sids]

There has been an interesting development in the "on the streets" campaigning.

It appears that in several places where Yes Scotland have applied to have a stall or a presence and been given permission to do so they have had their permission withdrawn because Better Together Stalls cant find enough volunteers to man their stall. This has a couple of times not been communicated to the YES Scotland campaigners until they arrive and set up - they are then asked to take their stall down because the Better Together Stall hasnt turned up or has called to say they cant get volunteers.

So the event ends up having no political stalls at all? How awful!

It seems to be a huge issue .

Yes, gigantic, but on a very small scale.

[orkneycadian]

based on a variety of information. Firstly Oil is a massive bonus and we should be delighted that we have the prospect of revenues from oil, but our economy is not based on oil, its based on many other things like Scotland's food and drink industry, whisky and tourism. I have talked about this before.

Originally Posted by squidge

Scotland having generated more tax per head than the UK for every one of the last 30 years
* Our world-class food and drink industry which is seeing rising exports and the most recent annual turnover of £12.4 billion
* Our thriving creative industries which are recognised throughout the world and have an annual turnover of £4.8 billion
* Our global reputation in life sciences and an annual turnover of £2.9 billion
* Our oil and gas industry, which is seeing record investment and which, in 2011, contributed £26bn to Scotland’s GDP and boosted the UK balance of payments by £40bn.
* Our green energy reserves, with an estimated 25 per cent of Europe’s tidal and offshore wind resources.
* Our tourism industry which employs almost 200,000 people
* Our manufacturing sector, which exported £14.7bn in 2011


If you add to this information that the 2011-2012 GERs figures show that Scotland has 8.4% of the UK population and we receive 9.3% of UK public spending to run our services. However Scotland generates 9.9% of UK taxes (up from 9.6% the previous year).

If I can refer you to this document http://scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0042/00422987.pdf

This offers an interesting and eminently readable view of the Scottish Economy.

Scotland has contributed more per head in taxes than the rest of the UK in each of the last thirty years. Scotland's wealth per head of the population is 99% of the rest of the UK and it leads the way in inward investment and the economy is growing.

So why do we think Scotland cant afford Independence?

If I simplistically add up all the turnover figures you quote above, I get £60.8 billion of turnover. There are about 5.2 million people in Scotland (could be less if the islands declare independence too....). Thats about £11,700 of turnover for each of us. Not clear "profit" to go and spend on life's necessities. Even if it were clear "profit", then £11,700 is not a huge amount for supporting each and every one of us, bearing in mind that that "income" per head has to cover all the services provided by government and local authorities, and is not just the "household income". And it doesn't help the situation that the £26 billion attributed to oil will continue to ramp down drastically over the next decade or 2.

[squidge]

Thats not everything though Orkneycadien it is an illustration, a part of the whole. You need to look at those sectors and then analyse the GERS reports and go through them at some length. You need to think about taxation, income tax, corporation tax and see what the analysts say about that. You then need to examine the paper that the Scottish Government produced on the Economy and Independence. In addition you need to look at the figures for Expenditure and think about how much Scotland pays into the UK for Defence and gets back in defence spending. If you also take on board things like the income raised from things like TV licence and how much of that is spent in Scotland on programmes and consider the surplus left over from that. The same with Road tax ( I know Mi16, I know) You need to think about the Barnett Formula and how it is worked out so and what projects are being designated as benefitting the UK and therefore excluded from the calculations. Like the Whole UK benefitting (not) High Speed Rail Link, Like the London Sewer upgrade. You need to think about Welfare and how much we spend on that and how we could change that. Many of the "spending on Scotland" is actually borrowing to spend on these things and we would not be doing that in an Independent Scotland. We would be borrowing and spending on Scottish priorities. Think about trident and how much we would NOT be spending on Tridents replacement. You need to talk to economic experts and listen to what they say - experts from both sides of the fence and make your own mind up.

There is no simple answer to the Economic issue - these are all the things that I have done to decide what I think about it and you have to do what you need to do to. I dont expect anyone to agree with me or to be persuaded - I have said this time and again. I beleive that Scotland can prosper and grow as an Independent Country even without oil. It has taken me a long time to get to that stage because there is a lot of information on both sides.

The bottom line is, however, that Money raised in an Independent Scotland - from whatever source would be spent on the priorities of Scotland. These priorities would be decided by us - the voters. They would be implemented by a Scottish Government elected by and answerable to the Scottish electorate. This isnt what happens now. I think this is a better way of managing our economy and meeting the challenges that will face us in the future..... including any reduction in the income from the oil industry

[squidge]

Yes, gigantic, but on a very small scale.

Ok lol - maybe huge was a bit of an overstatement lol.

[squidge]

P.S if you really are that sensitive block me(again) and stop PM ing me

One PM and you are stamping your foot! Like I said in the PM Leave me alone lol. You dont like me and I dont care. Stop prodding me for a response. Its boring for me and boring for everyone else. Find something else to do.... for everyones sake

[equusdriving]

Find something else to do.... for everyones sake

im very happy doing what I do thanks, and considering how sensitive and easily upset and offended you say you are, I find it strange you keep responding to my posts, but I guess you just cant stand not having the last word can you?

[squidge]

im very happy doing what I do thanks, and considering how sensitive and easily upset and offended you say you are, I find it strange you keep responding to my posts, but I guess you just cant stand not having the last word can you?

Absolutely and I know that about myself - its a failing I know -

so ......last word zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[equusdriving]

last word zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

what was that about stopping for everyones sake? oh yeah I forgot you are a hypocrite

[Phill]

Lets face it, if we had any decent amount of oil left or other mass of natural resources, the Yanks would be here bombing some freedom and democracy into Scotland.

[ducati]

I may have mentioned this before. The vast majority of 'Scottish Industry' is owned, and managed by foreign organisations. This means to me that while they may (or may not) pay taxes in Scotland, Scotland does not benefit from the profits or income generated. The fast majority of working Scots, have relatively low paid service and industrial jobs and we do not have a hugely dynamic global financial services industry.

To sum up, I don't believe the assurance that we can prosper in independence, I think it is a lie.

[squidge]

Is it a lie though Ducati? If there are experts, industry specialists and advisers saying both Scotland can and Scotland cannot afford to be an independent country then is it a lie or different interpretation. A lie means that those saying a thing believe it to be untrue. There is a vast array of expert opinion which says that Independence is affordable. Do you think that they have made it up in order to deceive? If you think that one side is lying, with all the evidence then why would you believe the other side when their evidence comes in the same type of package?

[equusdriving]

If there are experts, industry specialists and advisers saying both Scotland can and Scotland cannot afford to be an independent country then is it a lie or different interpretation.

so you would agree, Independence would be a massive Gamble with all our futures at stake, progress at last

[ducati]

Is it a lie though Ducati? If there are experts, industry specialists and advisers saying both Scotland can and Scotland cannot afford to be an independent country then is it a lie or different interpretation. A lie means that those saying a thing believe it to be untrue. There is a vast array of expert opinion which says that Independence is affordable. Do you think that they have made it up in order to deceive? If you think that one side is lying, with all the evidence then why would you believe the other side when their evidence comes in the same type of package?

The people using their interpretation to assure us we can afford it, are lying.

[Humerous Vegetable]

The people using their interpretation to assure us we can afford it, are lying.

People using their interpretation to assure us we can't afford it are also lying. It's called propaganda.

[equusdriving]

People using their interpretation to assure us we can't afford it are also lying. It's called propaganda.

that may be true, the BIG difference is, everyone knows what we have and have not got now, the pro-Independence propoganda is based on trying to convince us to gamble with all our futures, whereas the anti-Independence "propoganda" is based on trying to convince us not to gamble.

a bit like an alcholic/drug addict/smoker saying that drinking/drugs/smoking wont kill him and a doctor saying it probably will, is the doctor lying?

[Humerous Vegetable]

No, because clinical decisions are based on research data. Politcal decisions are based on political agendas, spin and social media websites, on both sides The trick is to be able to diffentiate between propaganda and facts. The SNP are purely in place to give the Scottish electorate the ability to chose an independent voice in the future of their country. After the independence vote, you can vote for whoever you want - are you a Tory, vote for them. The point of the referendum vote is to give the Scottish electorate the ability to vote for someone other than what the UK electorate decides is best for Scotland.