Nor Scot

[squidge]

what completely blinkered, naive, and unfounded utter rubbish at best or blatant lies?

Lol... My opinion thats all. However I would be interested to know how you can say the same thing about all these issues if we remain within the Union. Free prescriptions, Free tuition fees, Free personal care, the removal of the bedroom tax, the development of a different welfare system, a new system of taxation, a publicly funded NHS - can you say that these will be retained or even possible if we remain in the Union? I dont think you can.

However, I am prepared to be proved wrong Equus so on ya go hon...

[equusdriving]

Lol... My opinion thats all

Shame that its facts (or lack of) that change peoples minds not opinions

However I would be interested to know how you can say the same thing about all these issues if we remain within the Union.

Exactly! I don't know so I haven't said! you don't know but you have said! and I don't think your fears have much reason, as we are in the Union and have all these benefits now, but you are somehow using that fact to back Independence

[squidge]

Ok Equus here are some FACTS for you.

The only party to introduce and maintain the universal benefits is the SNP. The prescriptions charges, tuition fees, and personal care will disappear as soon as the SNP cease to form a government and the labour party under the instructions of Westminster repeal them. Unless they are protected by a constitution. The ONLY way there will be a constitution is in an Independent Scotland.

The Bedroom Tax will only be repealed if we get an Independent Scotland or a Labour Government and if you think independence is unlikely then a Labour Government is just as unlikely. We cannot abolish the Bedroom Tax within Scotland as it is.

Fact- there are NO plans for a different welfare system based on support rather than punishment in the UK.
Fact- there are NO plans for a new system of taxation
Fact- the money coming to Scotland for the NHS is reducing because of the cuts in public spending on the NHS in the rest of the UK. How long before we cant afford to make up the difference?

If you add to these facts the information that you can find all over the press about calls by MPs to slash the money coming into Scotland and to abolish the Barnett Formula and if you also understand that the Scottish Parliament itself could be disbanded by Westminster (Although I dont believe that will happen but some people do) then it is perfectly reasonable to believe that, as I said, these things can only be retained or even be possible with a YES vote.

These things may not matter to you, you may have other priorities and that is ok but these are some of mine. If you can show me that there is even a better chance or maybe just an even chance, that we will retain these things or have the chance to change the welfare or tax systems then I would be glad to change what I have said. Until then my opinion stands.

[equusdriving]

The only party to introduce and maintain the universal benefits is the SNP. The prescriptions charges, tuition fees, and personal care will disappear as soon as the SNP cease to form a government

so what happens after Independence and a different party is voted in ??

We cannot abolish the Bedroom Tax within Scotland as it is.

Cant say I will lose any sleep over that

Fact- there are NO plans for a different welfare system based on support rather than punishment in the UK.
Fact- there are NO plans for a new system of taxation
Fact- the money coming to Scotland for the NHS is reducing because of the cuts in public spending on the NHS in the rest of the UK. How long before we cant afford to make up the difference?

FACT- No plans to, doesn't mean it wont/cant happen

These things may not matter to you, you may have other priorities and that is ok

Oh I am pleased about that

Until then my opinion stands.

good for you

[squidge]

so what happens after Independence and a different party is voted in ?? D

As I said there is a commitment to draw up a written constitution after the YES vote. Issues like housing and The right to free education are likely to be included in the constitution which means they will be fundamental rights in an independent Scotland. Without a YES vote there will be no constitution and no doubt that these important supports will be removed.

Cant say I will lose any sleep over thatD

You are alright then Equus? Not having to decide between paying the tax or buying food or electric? I am glad.

FACT- No plans to, doesn't mean it wont/cant happen D

FACT- There is no westminster party which is ideologically committed to fundamentally changing the welfare system or the tax system. There is NO opportunity for changes within Westminster. You arent a fool Equus - you must know that. So Ill say it again... The only way to ensure we retain these public spending priorities, protect the NHS and have the opportunity to change the tax and welfare system is to vote YES in the referendum.

[equusdriving]

are likely to be included

oh well that's reassuring then

no doubt that these important supports will be removed

I take it that's another "your opinion" slipped in like a fact

You are alright then Equus?

yes very good thanks

There is NO opportunity for changes within Westminster

and another one.

You arent a fool Equus

oh well you must be right then

The only way to ensure we retain these public spending priorities, protect the NHS and have the opportunity to change the tax and welfare system is to vote YES in the referendum.

and one more to end on

I cant understand how, if Independence is so good, why the few are having to convince the many of it.............but then again I bet your lot would have seen the emperors new clothes too Squidge

[squidge]

I cant understand how, if Independence is so good, why the few are having to convince the many of it.............but then again I bet your lot would have seen the emperors new clothes too Squidge

Lol Equus I am not trying to convince anyone. I simply post my opinions on threads which interest me. At least it gives an alternative to the endlessly negative, often rude, occasionally patronising and rarely positive stuff posted here in support of a NO vote. Not forgetting the discreditted Scotland is too poor, too wee and too stupid to cope with independence argument which is rolled out with unfailing regularity on this board. I dont care which way people vote but I do care that they get to hear different opinions or points of view.

[equusdriving]

I am not trying to convince anyone

and that statement certainly isn't convincing anyone!

I simply post my opinions

yes and try to pass them off as facts!

At least it gives an alternative to the endlessly negative, often rude, occasionally patronising and rarely positive stuff posted here in support of a NO vote.

hold on, its your lot that starts the posts, and then throw your rattles when holes are pointed out in your facts/opinions (delete which one is appropriate)

Not forgetting the discreditted Scotland is too poor, too wee and too stupid to cope with independence argument which is rolled out with unfailing regularity on this board

that's funny because your lot are always bringing this up, but I cant remember the last time I have seen this mentioned by a unionist.

I dont care which way people vote but I do care that they get to hear different opinions or points of view.

No you mean you care, that they don't believe YOUR point of view

[squidge]

and that statement certainly isn't convincing anyone! yes and try to pass them off as facts! hold on, its your lot that starts the posts, and then throw your rattles when holes are pointed out in your facts/opinions (delete which one is appropriate) that's funny because your lot are always bringing this up, but I cant remember the last time I have seen this mentioned by a unionist. No you mean you care, that they don't believe YOUR point of view

I never start threads on independence. Varieties of the too small too weak and too stupid have been posted in this last week or so. Maybe you dont bother to read anything but your own mutterings. Equus I truly dont care which way you or anyone else votes. Its up to them. Surely you too must agree its good to hear alternative opinons. Now this conversation has moved away from the issues to me responding to your nit picking and sniping. I cant be bothered so I'll step out here and leave you to it. I be back if there are issues to respond to Equus. In the meantime, have a nice day

[ducati]

I was at a live gig in Snecky last night and the stage gaggie asked the question "Inverness, independence yes or no?" A resounding no. So we are still on track.

[equusdriving]

I never start threads on independence.

I said "your lot"

Varieties of the too small too weak and too stupid have been posted in this last week or so.

please show where those words have been used or is it yet another case of reading what suits you into it?

Maybe you dont bother to read anything but your own mutterings

no, but I don't suffer fools gladly either.

Equus I truly dont care which way you or anyone else votes. Its up to them.

just as well because with your reasoning I don't see you convincing anyone

Surely you too must agree its good to hear alternative opinons.

yes if they are credible

Now this conversation has moved away from the issues to me responding to your nit picking and sniping.

I forgot you don't like substantiating your claims

I be back if there are issues to respond to Equus.

when you have a plausible answer to them I hope

In the meantime, have a nice day

missing you already

[squidge]

Yesterday there was a paper released by HMRC. This paper http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/re...isagg-info.pdf is called "A disaggregation of HMRC tax receipts between England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland" a real snappy title I'm sure you will agree.

What it does is it seperates out the tax receipts for each part of the UK and shows you this in a table and a graph form. What the tables show is that in each of the last 13 years Scotland has contributed more than its population share of taxes - so Scotland has 8.4% of the population and has contributed up to 10.2% of the total tax take of the UK in 2008/9 and 8.6% in 2001. The last time that Scotland contributed less than its population share was 1999/2000 when it contributed 8.3% What this means is that since devolution Scotland has contributed £42.5 billion over and above its populations share to the income of the UK.

There are also a couple of graphs which show the increases over time with and without the income from oil. Without oil the tax receipts from Scotland increased more rapidly than England and Wales and with the income from oil the tax receipts from Scotland grew more rapidly than England Wales and Northern Ireland although they did show more volatility.

This report states that it is an experimental report and I havent time just now to follow the links to drill down into the figures but it clearly shows that Scotland is not subsidiesed by the rest of the UK and stands tall on its own two feet. It is an HMRC report and not a Scottish Government Report and so cant is objective and interesting.

There is no suggestion that this will change after Independence from any credible source and so it is a jolly good place to be I think. Worth a look whichever side of the debate you sit on.

[golach]

Yesterday there was a paper released by HMRC. This paper http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/re...isagg-info.pdf is called "A disaggregation of HMRC tax receipts between England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland" a real snappy title I'm sure you will agree..

In my opinion, since the IR took over the HMC&E there have been so many inaccurate statements coming out of that department, if they told me tomorrow was going to be Friday I would not believe them.

[squidge]

In my opinion, since the IR took over the HMC&E there have been so many inaccurate statements coming out of that department, if they told me tomorrow was going to be Friday I would not believe them.

hahahahahaha Golach is there ANYONE or ANYTHING you DO beleive?

[Oddquine]

hahahahahaha Golach is there ANYONE or ANYTHING you DO beleive?

There is.....every media hack who miscalls Alex Salmond and the SNP. Every right wing site like Britain First which produces quotes he can use to miscall Alex Salmond and the SNP......and every word emanating from the UK Government and their employees.....but only those which confirm his POV.

I do hope that there aren't many more like golach, who appears to be going to vote in this important referendum based on the personalities of the current temporary leaders on either side. That is not voting for Scotland or the Union...that is voting for or against Alex Salmond/SNP and David Cameron/Tories...and we have regular elections which enable us to do that..but perhaps the difference between an election for a Government and a referendum on independence has passed them by.

[ducati]

I'm quite happy to accept the report at face value. It makes no difference to me. It is not percentages that matter, it is actual numbers of £s available.

[ducati]

There is.....every media hack who miscalls Alex Salmond and the SNP. Every right wing site like Britain First which produces quotes he can use to miscall Alex Salmond and the SNP......and every word emanating from the UK Government and their employees.....but only those which confirm his POV.

I do hope that there aren't many more like golach, who appears to be going to vote in this important referendum based on the personalities of the current temporary leaders on either side. That is not voting for Scotland or the Union...that is voting for or against Alex Salmond/SNP and David Cameron/Tories...and we have regular elections which enable us to do that..but perhaps the difference between an election for a Government and a referendum on independence has passed them by.

Interesting considering you are usually so vitriollic about the current and past UK governments.

[golach]

hahahahahaha Golach is there ANYONE or ANYTHING you DO beleive?

I believe in my own Judgement and common sense Squidge.

Oddthing I am not voting for any politician I am voting for the Union, no matter who is currently at the helm. I do not contribute to or read the Britain First website, but on your recommendation, I will now have a look.

[equusdriving]

hahahahahaha Golach is there ANYONE or ANYTHING you DO beleive?

I bet salesmen rub their hands together when they see you coming,salesman "morning madam would you like to part exchange your car for this nice shiny one" Squidge " is it more economical" salesman "well it could well be" Squidge "is it cheaper to tax" salesman "well it could well be" Squidge "is it cheaper to insure" salesman "well it could well be" Squidge "is it cheaper to maintain" salesman "well it could well be" Squidge " has it got service history" salesman "maybe" Squidge "how much is it" salesman "I will let you know after we have done the deal" Squidge "wow that sounds perfect I will take it"

[squidge]

I believe in my own Judgement and common sense Squidge.

Oddthing I am not voting for any politician I am voting for the Union, no matter who is currently at the helm. I do not contribute to or read the Britain First website, but on your recommendation, I will now have a look.

Britain First isnt my recommendation.Golach. I dont suggest that ANYONE grubs around in some of the unionist pages unless they have a strong stomach for EDL, SDL. National Front ( yes they still exist - particularly in the Anerdeen area for some reason) anti islam, anti catholic rhetoric. They can be really really unpleasant. Dont go there.