Labour for Independence

[squidge]

Secrets - your post says it was edited because you forgot important words.

Lets guess what they might be

"seccessionist Scumbags" ahh alliteration is soooooooo satisfying isnt it - especially when all you have is insults and name calling.

"power at any cost" Well lets see - if it was power at any cost then we would surely have seen armed and violent struggle. We have not done so and there is no expectation that there will be any sort of armed uprising - oh unless you consider the post referendum targetting of "secessionist scumbags" that you recommended on an earlier thread. what was it - hanging, torture, and banishment.

"undemocratic" How is it undemocratic to want a system which will mean that people in Scotland will get the parliament that it votes for? Wont that be a more representative system than we have now and wont that give us a more accountable system than we have now? Wont that be a more democratic system than we have now?

"failed Extreme left" firstly we havent actually failed at anything as we havent even got started on Independence yet
Secondly is it really "extreme left" to want a fairer, better and more equal society"? Is it really extreme left to want to identify our own priorities and spend Scotlands money on those priorities? By saying our own - I mean the priorities of the Scottish Electorate because it will be us - that electorate - that choose the first government of an Independent Scotland based on what our priorities are. In addition Those people in Scotland who support right of centre policies are not well served just now - we have an almost unelectable Conservative party. After Independence it is generally suggested that there will be a change in the politics and new parties which are unencumbered by the history will grow and this can only benefit those supporting right wing policies.

"Dinosaur" Backward looking, slow to change and adapt, outdated and slow. Do these adjectives really apply to the YES campaign? A campaign which champions change and opportunity, which talks about Scotland being a country taking its place on the world stage and making its voice heard to benefit not only Scotland but the rest of Europe? A campaign which talks about an outward looking, welcoming independent country? Or the No campaign, whose Too wee too poor too stupid remarks are an insult to everyone living here, who want to pull the UK away from Europe and who see nothing wrong with policies which are stigmatising the disabled and the immigrants? A campaign which tries so hard to feed fears and worries of people trying to make the decision of their lifetime.

"Vanquished" - the language of the crusades - bizarre indeed. I dont really know what to make of that.

Finally Scotland already is a proper and successful part of the United Kingdom but it can be a proper and Successful independent country if we secure a YES vote.

So important words indeed Secrets, and yet words is all you ahve - your comments are SUCH balderdash that I am starting to think you might be an SNP mole infiltrating the Caithness.org NO Clique - watch who you get your picture taken with wee man!!!!

[golach]

Goallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll... .... was that what you thought Golach - I suppose you needed something to cheer after today's Hibs result lol

Thats low squidge, but what I have come to expect from you snp cranks

[squidge]

Awww sorry golach were your feelings hurt? Ach its only football!!!!! Isnt it?

[golach]

Awww sorry golach were your feelings hurt? Ach its only football!!!!! Isnt it?

when a Hibernian supporter, one gets used to such minor set backs, and jibes from others less fortunate than me

[Rheghead]

I
I have never said that the UK is worthless, embarrassing or been ashamed. i am not voting for Independence because I think the UK is awful. It suits you to say that I do just like it suits Anas Sarwar to paint LFI as a front for the SNP. Just for the record .... AGAIN.... Just so as there is no misunderstanding... Again. Here you go.

I like living here, Scotland and Britain. I am an English woman, a northerner a lancashire lass. I like those things about me. Im not ashamed or embarrassed. We live in a good place and we are lucky to do so but it could be better. I will vote for Independence not because I think the UK is worthless, embarrassing or something to be ashamed of but because I believe there are things wrong with the way Westminster governs, there are things wrong with the society we live in that adversly affect the lives of millions of people that Westminster are ignoring, making worse and about which our government does not care. Things which are affecting the great industries and social structures you proudly boast of. Diminishing them, choking the life out of them. I believe that only independence gives us the opportunity to change those things because only Independence gives us the power to make our own decisions, decide our own priorities.

As for Alex Salmond, well he can please himself, he can make little tin gods of himself and flog them on the royal mile for all i care because a YESvote is not a vote for Alex Salmond. I know you unionists like to think it is but really how hard is this to understand. The referendum is about who we want to grow, develop and deliver a fair, prosperous and truly equal society.... Us- The people of Scotland or Westminster politicians? If you want to vote for Alex Salmond you can do so in 2016. Ill decide who to vote for depending on their policies a bit nearer the time.

I believe a YES vote gives us the opportunity to do things differently and to make things better for this beautiful, vibrant place we live in. Changes that I have worked for, hoped for, campaigned for for most of my life. Scotland may have become great within the union but if that greatness is to continue into the 21st century and beyond, we need to be an Outward looking, independent nation.

Disagree with me? Fine. Think I am one of Golach's cranks? Fine. Vote no then. I dont care. Whatever the result I will be working for something better for my kids, your kids and all our kids. You do what you must to retain your beloved status quo... Including the name calling and the putting words into my mouth. Me? Im voting for opportunity and for change and for something better...

There is an old saying. And you agree that Scotland is a great place to live. Don't fix something that isn't broken. It will cost billions to get what you want.

You have been unduly influenced by your immediate friends and family who are of the Scottish independence flavour. I cannot blame you for that. Love is apowerful thing.

However, I also believe in loyalty. In the union, we believe in loyalty above all other things, not opportunitism. And it is through loyalty and unity that has made the UK the greatest union on the planet. We shouldn't just ditch the union when no net benefits are forecoming because that is political suicide.

[piratelassie]

The quote is self explanitory, you don't have to be in a political party to support an independent Scotland or not support it.

EH, explain?

[Rheghead]

The quote is self explanitory, you don't have to be in a political party to support an independent Scotland or not support it.

Yes and that is why there is a huge Better together campaign against the SNP who pretend others are in league with them. Even the green party left the Yes campaign but later joined withe proviso that individual members can make up their own minds. If snp members decided to stay with the union then they would be expelled.

[secrets in symmetry]

The main problem with these secessionist idiots is that they don't understand economics. Many of them are brain-dead extreme lefties who don't understand anything, but the vast majority simply don't understand that a seceded Scotland would be economically (and perhaps politically) unstable, so they wouldn't have the money to do anything they want to do. In fact, they would have much less money than they have now, so spending cuts after secession would be far deeper and far more damaging than anything we've seen from George (the Cameron and Clegg rottweiler). Any half-competent economist could tell you that. Don't listen to "politicial economists" (i.e liars) because they'll tell you anything you want to hear.

[Partan]

It's just another (very small) bunch of clowns that have have been drawn to Ugly Fat Eck - just like the odd few sensible people can be drawn to the most evil powerful politicians on the planet. They'll be booted out of their respective parties after Eck gets hammered in the eckerendum.

Puerile, repetitive, tedious and intellectually bankrupt.

[secrets in symmetry]

Puerile, repetitive, tedious and intellectually bankrupt.

Yes, those words describe the secessionists and your post rather well, although at least you're not repetitive - yet, lol.

Come back when you understand.

[squidge]

There is an old saying. And you agree that Scotland is a great place to live. Don't fix something that isn't broken. It will cost billions to get what you want.

Oh well then thats ok, It is a great place to live for me, I have a job, a family, a roof over my head. Oh .... but look at my neighbour - they have just been found fit for work after an ATOS assessment, and yet they are still fighting cancer. And what about the person living across the road - they have been caring for their child who has additional needs for over 40years and are still fighting for every mortal thing they and their child need and now they are watching others in similar situations fighting in the same way that they had to do 30 years ago. Nothing has changed because they are not considered important by those who are "all right Jack". What about the person leaving the Broo who got spat on today - called a scrounger, idler and a lazy so and so. What about the immigrant sitting in their living room whilst a van drives past with a sign telling immigrants to "go home". It might be illegal immigrants its targeting but she got asked whether she was legal by some woman in the co op yesterday and doesnt want to face that again. What about those people using the foodbank and that child needing care - failed by their parents they will be failed again by a care system that is not fit for purpose. What about the people living in South Kessock who's life expectancy is 20 years less than someone living less than five miles away? Do you think that they think Scotland is the best it can be? Or that the UK is the best it can be? because these issues affect the whole of the UK - The difference is that there is some will to change things in Scotland and a potential mechanism for doing so - Independence. I hope that we would be able to show that there is a different way of doing things than that which is offered to us by Westminster currently.

Yes Rheghead - Scotland is a great place to live for me. I'm alright Jack and that might be good enough for you but it isnt for me.

You have been unduly influenced by your immediate friends and family who are of the Scottish independence flavour. I cannot blame you for that. Love is apowerful thing.

Ahhhhhh the old mysoginistic "lets pat the wee wifie on the head after all she cant possibly be able to make her own mind up" card. She must be unduly swayed by her heart, her hormones had her head turned by a handsome man. As if I was a girl of 18 and not a woman of nearly fifty. Im surprised that you didnt suggest its my "time of the month" or given my age It's because Im on " the change". After all you have chosen to play the patronising chauvenist piggery card yet again when it is so beneath you and demeans you so much.

However, I also believe in loyalty. In the union, we believe in loyalty above all other things, not opportunitism. And it is through loyalty and unity that has made the UK the greatest union on the planet. We shouldn't just ditch the union when no net benefits are forecoming because that is political suicide.

Loyalty above all else? My country Right or wrong? What about people? Opportunism is not always a good thing but when it is the opportunity to do something better, to improve things for people to create and grow something fairer, better and more equal then it is worth it - it wont happen overnight - it may take years but its STILL worth it. Nothing lasts for ever - ask Ozymandias. The union has served us all well but it is no longer doing so. It is time to look forward for something better and for the powers we need to achieve that.

You can argue the costs if you like but no one except maybe you, Golach and the "no one knows better than me" Secrets in Symmetry is suggesting that Scotland cannot afford to be independent. Even David Cameron acknowledges that. Even without oil. And how much better could we do when we are spending money not on Trident but on People? When money that should be coming to Scotland isnt being spent on high speed rail links from London to Birmingham and London's sewage works instead? When the government we have has the priorities of the people of Scotland at the heart of their policy making? When money raised in Scotland is spent on Scotland's Priorities by a Scottish Government voted for and accountable to the people that live here and that make their lives here. Yes Rheghead Scotland IS a great place to live for me, I want it to be a great place to live for all Scotland's people and I believe that Independence gives us an opportunity to work towards achieving that in a way we cannot do within the Union.

[RagnarRocks]

Just to attempt to redress the idea that the rest of the Uk is affluent whilst Scotland suffers . This is without doubt one of the most beautiful places in the world to live,the weather isn't the best but its never unbearably hot,nor Siberian cold a bit windy is the worst you can throw at it. I've relocated here from a town considered one of the country's most affluent,and yes whilst it has a swathe of billionaires and multi millionaires strung along a few miles of coast nestled a few miles down is a part of the town which has all the social problems you find here. The average wage is massively skewed by the millionaires the reality is lots of people work in KFC McDonald's Starbucks etc the wages aren't better than here but the cost of living and renting is obscene, there are still homeless the drug addicted and people who have had hard lives for whatever reason if nothing else the corporate boot is firmly on the necks of most of the town. The health service here is free down south I paid. I've found the services on par with my old local health service some differences but they balance out, drugs are still rationed due to expense, the elderly still suffer the same indignities, yes the infra structure may be better and broadband faster etc but the quality of life available here is better, the same problems exist down south as here maybe some are replaced with others. But I don't think even with independence you'll notice a huge change,the world is becoming smaller due to technology, but is more defined by trading blocks than national identity! which is waning so you gain independence but have to trade off to Europe. As a new member of the European Union you replace one not perfect but fairly accountable prepared to listen and compromise partner for a rather larger not particularly democratic and autocratic unaccountable partner. I doubt independence would cripple Scotland there would be teething problems no doubt but it would survive, yes gas and oil will help for a couple of hundred years it wouldn't be the end of the world it may well prosper magnificently. But at the end of the day what will really change England will still be there so will Wales and Ireland.Borders apparently they won't really change, pensions and health service won't really change nor will currency so its down to taxation mainly and whether you're happier having elected buffoons at least trying to work collectively for the whole lot or a more expensive bunch of your own in Scotland. I mean it won't change the south east of England's population density or strong hold on finance and business so when all is weighed and broken down its really much ado about nothing replace one bunch off over paid lying clowns with another non you can trust are far as you can throw them so is it really worth getting all hot and bothered about. In 100 years time it will just be The European Union and they will probably want us speaking French or German. That's allowing that the Chinese don't call in there debts and the future generations are barefoot in the flow planting rice to keep Beijing well fed .

[squidge]

Oh well we just shouldnt bother then. Its just too hard!!!!!! You know i have maybe said this before but for a country with the thistle as a national emblem there are lots of folks that are feart of the jaggy bits.

[golach]

Oh well we just shouldnt bother then. Its just too hard!!!!!! You know i have maybe said this before but for a country with the thistle as a national emblem there are lots of folks that are feart of the jaggy bits.

Legend has it our national emblems jaggy bits, were for defence, not for taking chances

[squidge]

Defence of what Golach? Our Country right or wrong? Like Rheghead?

[golach]

Defence of what Golach? Our Country right or wrong? Like Rheghead?

no-one knows, but legend has it that a sleeping party of Scots warriors were saved from ambush by an invading Norse army when one of the attackers trod on a thistle with his bare feet. His cries raised the alarm, the roused Scots duly defeated the invaders, and the thistle was adopted as the symbol of Scotland. Unfortunately, there is no historical evidence for this, but Scots, like other nations, love a good story. You choose squidge

[squidge]

Its suggested it was the Battle of Largs lol. We did the linlithgow show with a great viking group called Carrick 800 and our fights were based on the Battle of Largs. The guys did show the Thistle legend as part of that. We are working with Carrick at Fort George Celebration of the Centuries this weekend and I think one of the fights we are doing is the same one... the other is a representation of skirmishes which led up to Bannockburn ready for next year. Not sure who is getting jagged in the foot this weekend tho.

[Oddquine]

Times I wonder if pro-unionists suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

[equusdriving]

Times I wonder if pro-unionists suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

and I wonder if pro-independents suffer from "believe anything we are told regardless if it makes sense or not syndrome"

[equusdriving]

and I wonder if pro-independents suffer from "believe anything we are told regardless if it makes sense or not syndrome"

or the "vote for independence and fingers crossed, we might not be any worse off syndrome"
or the "we may end up the creek without a paddle, but at least we will be in our own canoe syndrome"