Caithness Map :: Links to Site Map Paying too much for broadband? Move to PlusNet broadband and save£££s. Free setup now available - terms apply. PlusNet broadband.  
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 100

Thread: bird strikes & wind farms

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    12,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by webmannie View Post
    Why don't you just call the witnesses liars, don't beat around the bush.
    To tell a lie there has to be some form of malice aforethought in telling a falsehood. It could well be that the people on the bus were telling the truth as they saw it, but it might not be the case. One is for certain though, Caithness has no shortage of anti-windfarm thinking people or roadkill buzzard corpses for that matter. Just ask yourselves, what is the likelyhood of someone on a moving bus witnessing this tragic event then persuading the bus driver to make a detour to scour the area in which this event took place from a large distance away? Would it be worth their bother? Where were they going and at what time? And another thing, if a raptor got hit by a 140mph blade then I'd imagine there would be nowt much left of it bar blood and feathers. Was the corpse condition consistent with a blade strike if it was handed in as evidence in one piece??

    I know Forss is subject to an extension to the existing 2 turbines and this event has come rather timely to add a welcome complication for anyone with anti-windfarm leanings.

    Not saying anyone is lying neither am I being contrary for being contrary's sake, I just see this as one for objective analysis on the facts.

    If we all believe everything what is given as an eyewitness account in the newspapers then we would be extremely naive to say the least...
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  2. #22

    Default

    You are obviously unaware of the topology of the Forss windfarm, how close the turbine is to the business park road and the frequency of the minibus service. Yes I find it pretty amazing that it was seen, otherwise some people might stupidly think that it just dropped dead from the sky.

    Don't insult me by trying to wrap this up as you being 'objective'. To be objective you must understand the factual details, like the technical & infrastructure arrangements, the credibility of the witnesses etc and put the incident in context to that, something you have obviously not done. (PS don't try and join the constabulary, you'll fail the entrance exam)

    Who said that the Buzzard was hit by the tip, Not me?

    The 'extension' has been approved, in fact it is under construction now. I hope to be walking round it at lunchtimes in the summer again. I also hope I DO NOT come across any more dead birds but If I do then i'll not be keeping quiet about it.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    723

    Default Bigger Picture

    It stands to reason the buzzard was killed by the blades. It stands to reason birds have been killed at Causewaymire. Sooner or later it was bound to happen. Even developers allow in their EIA's for a teensy bit of that sort of thing going on. You only have to read up on the horrific numbers of birds killed at Altamont in California, in Norway, and so on to accept that it happens here too. (No, Rheghead, I'm not looking up any references/proof for you tonight - I'll come back later with them should you insist.)

    More important than the number of birds killed is the fact that windfarms take away huge tracts of habitat, nesting areas and food from bird populations - that's the real killer. And we have too many internationally protected and truly endangered bird species, resident and migrant, depending on Caithness for us to wantonly sacrifice their habitat.

    The developers' line that we have to sacrifice birds for the long-term goal of combatting climate change is risible and totally self-serving.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    12,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by webmannie View Post
    You are obviously unaware of the topology of the Forss windfarm, how close the turbine is to the business park road and the frequency of the minibus service. Yes I find it pretty amazing that it was seen, otherwise some people might stupidly think that it just dropped dead from the sky.

    Don't insult me by trying to wrap this up as you being 'objective'. To be objective you must understand the factual details, like the technical & infrastructure arrangements, the credibility of the witnesses etc and put the incident in context to that, something you have obviously not done. (PS don't try and join the constabulary, you'll fail the entrance exam)

    Who said that the Buzzard was hit by the tip, Not me?

    The 'extension' has been approved, in fact it is under construction now. I hope to be walking round it at lunchtimes in the summer again. I also hope I DO NOT come across any more dead birds but If I do then i'll not be keeping quiet about it.
    Yes you have to be objective about it, has there been a vet to examine the bird? I guess no. Basically there aren't enough facts available to make a murder out of this smoking gun unless you are jumping the facts.

    Oh and btw, I served with Cumbria Constabulary as a constable for 3 years with a commendation to boot.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kas View Post
    For those who have not seen the story

    http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk...pNodeId=149221


    I am keen to find anyone with info regarding the comment about the dead birds at the causeway mire turbine farm. Is this the case.
    Kas,
    I remember someone telling me some children on a school trip to Causewaymire soon after it started operating witnessed a large bird blown to bits on a turbine blade. But I can't substantiate that - I can't even remember who told me, what school, etc. Maybe another .orger heard that too?

  6. #26

    Default

    Oh, come on, give up, Tilter, a Cumbrian constable with a special commendation clearly has the advantage over an ignorant Caithnessian.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    8,200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spurtle View Post
    In the light of the press report of a buzzard being killed by a turbine blade, is anyone researching bird strikes, around the wind farms currently operating in Caithness?
    I have seen no similar press reports researching pheasant strikes by speeding cars on the A9, I wonder when will the P&J cover that story, and as an after thought the number of flattened hedgehogs, rabbits, and even, dare I say it...Cats, needs to be looked into with sympathy
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

  8. #28

    Default

    'special commendation to boot'. Up here obviously

  9. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by golach View Post
    I have seen no similar press reports researching pheasant strikes by speeding cars on the A9, I wonder when will the P&J cover that story, and as an after thought the number of flattened hedgehogs, rabbits, and even, dare I say it...Cats, needs to be looked into with sympathy
    You said it, noooooooooo. Cats! Murderers, Satan of the birdworld, be gone you devil before we are all led down the road to perdition.

  10. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by golach View Post
    I have seen no similar press reports researching pheasant strikes by speeding cars on the A9.
    seriously though

    A couple of years ago I was travelling up home from Glasgow as a passenger in a car, to pass time I counted pheasant roadkill, from Glasgow to Thurso there were 23. I was quite surprised.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    8,200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by webmannie View Post
    seriously though

    A couple of years ago I was travelling up home from Glasgow as a passenger in a car, to pass time I counted pheasant roadkill, from Glasgow to Thurso there were 23. I was quite surprised.
    Webmannie My point exactly, one bird that is daft enough not to see a beeg blade and the whole o Kaitness is up in arms
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

  12. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by golach View Post
    the whole o Kaitness is up in arms
    I'd hardly say that, .org doesn't have that many members. 'storm in a teacup' maybe suits

    To me the news item in the P&J was more the fact that somebody seen it rather than that a turbine had killed it. You'd have to be pretty naive to think that it doesn't happen, what is unknown to most is how often it happens.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    702

    Default

    [quote=[I]captain chaos;185650]Nirifo[/I]

    You quote "it would take over a 1000 windmills to generate the same output that say Dounreay PFR used to put out"

    I am no lover of windmills but your maths are a little out... most wind turbimes at present are between 1 and 2 MW output. PFR was a 250Mw generator this would mean between 125 to 250 windmills would replace the old PFR generator.

    Modern nuclear power station now generate 2200MW so 1000 windmills would not even replace a new power station.[/quote


    The output efficiency of wind turbines compared to conventional power generating plant is usually accepted as being approx 30%, here's an excerpt from the following web link, many similar web links can be found with a basic search.

    http://www.bwea.com/energy/rely.html

    The load factor of wind varies according to the site and the type of turbine, but it is generally around 30%. It is higher during the winter than the summer. An average windfarm with an installed capacity of say 5 MW will produce an output of 13,140 MWhours/year, i.e. 30% of what it would produce if it were operating continually at maximum output.
    The relationship between capacity credit and load factor

    Capacity credit is calculated by determining the reductions of installed power capacity at thermal power stations so that the probability of loss of load at winter peaks is not increased. Or, in other words, how much thermal power plant could be 'replaced' by wind power, without making the system less reliable. For low levels of penetration of wind power into the grid, the capacity credit of wind energy is about the same as the installed capacity multiplied by the load factor. In other words if there is 100 MW of wind energy installed in the country, then this can be relied upon to replace (or avoid the need to build) 30 MW of thermal or nuclear generation capacity. However as the level of wind penetration rises, the capacity credit begins to tail off as shown in the figure.

    Here's another quote from the following web link, there's many more.

    http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-59/iss-8/p11b.html

    As a free-standing, reliable, and stable source of energy, wind power is totally inadequate; even as a secondary, supportive source, it has serious limitations. Due to the character of wind, power is not produced in a steady stream over a long period but in a succession of spikes between zero and full power. The fluctuation makes reliable management of the power grid very risky. Moreover, wind power generation delivers only a modest fraction (20% to 25%) of the installed power capacity. For example, a 150-MW wind farm planned for the Gulf of Mexico outside Galveston, Texas, at a cost of $310 million would realistically deliver at an average rate of 30 MW. This will provide power for less than one extra minute per day for the state. To keep up with a 1.5% annual increase in electrical usage in Texas, one would have to build about 25 of these wind farms every year. So one 150-MW wind farm is small potatoes for Texas's electrical supply.
    Germany is half the size of Texas but has more than twice the installed wind power capacity of the entire US, namely 16 400 MW, producing 4.9% of Germany's electricity (1.25% of its total energy). The problems created by the large investment Germany has made in wind power are discussed in the Wind Report 20051 from E.ON Netz, Germany's second largest electrical utility. The report concluded that the possibility of wind energy replacing conventional energy sources is quite limited. For instance, the country's 16 400 MW wind-energy system can actually only contribute 8% of its output capacity (1312 MW) as secure power production. So an extra, conventional generating capacity of about 90% of the wind capacity has to be added to the grid as backup, which would require an enormous additional investment.
    The report also stated that the feed-in capacity for wind energy can change often and dramatically. "On Christmas Eve 2004, wind production in Germany fell 4000 MW in 10 hours, representing the capacity of eight 500 MW coal-fired power plants! This created an enormous challenge for the operators of the grid and it could easily have led to a vast blackout in central Europe."
    For people thinking "the more wind energy the better," Wind Report 2005 should be required reading.
    It therefore follows that to generate the equivalent output of the PFR when it was operational 1000 windmills is not so far out.

    nirofo

  14. #34

    Default

    To get back to the original point - has anyone done any study locally on bird strikes - it would be instructive to have an idea of the actual effect.

    I would imagine that a coastal scheme like Forss would be a particular danger for the nocturnal migrants that come in, in quite large numbers in the back end of the year.
    It is well documented tha raptors are particularly bad at keeping out of the way, and they tend to be more noticeable than other birds, being generally larger than average.

    A walk round once a week would at least give an indication.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    12,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spurtle View Post
    To get back to the original point - has anyone done any study locally on bird strikes - it would be instructive to have an idea of the actual effect.

    I would imagine that a coastal scheme like Forss would be a particular danger for the nocturnal migrants that come in, in quite large numbers in the back end of the year.
    It is well documented tha raptors are particularly bad at keeping out of the way, and they tend to be more noticeable than other birds, being generally larger than average.

    A walk round once a week would at least give an indication.
    I would welcome any study like that here. The results either way would be very interesting.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spurtle View Post
    Oh, come on, give up, Tilter, a Cumbrian constable with a special commendation clearly has the advantage over an ignorant Caithnessian.
    Spurtle,
    I gave up long ago. Anyway, Rheghead's a cat in disguise. Didn't you know? He's had lots of lives in order to get all his qualifications and experience in his many and varied careers. There's a different career for every thread. That's why he knows so much more than us.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Eyewitness accounts are very unreliable, especially mass eyewitness accounts, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance in poor visibility, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance in poor visibility from people who may not be looking in the direction at the time, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance in poor visibility from people who may not be looking in the direction at the time and who come from an area whose opinions on windfarms are not favorable.

    Why not say that there is no proof that there were even witnesses or that the windfarm is only heresay, what a load of crap!!

    nirofo.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Scrabster
    Posts
    1,166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by golach View Post
    I have seen no similar press reports researching pheasant strikes by speeding cars on the A9, I wonder when will the P&J cover that story, and as an after thought the number of flattened hedgehogs, rabbits, and even, dare I say it...Cats, needs to be looked into with sympathy

    Not a dig but just agreeing with your comment Golach.
    Roads deaths will never ever be prevented, 14 people died on Scotlands roads in the last 48 hours, how much will be done to prevent this from happening again? Yet if 14 people died from any other circumstances there would be major investigations.

    Nearly everyone needs road travel to exist these days so it is almost accepted. Whereas Wind turbines are something that has opinions split, and those who oppose them will use every arguement in their case.

    As a bird lover I hate the thought of anything that kills birds, although I have double standards as I do own a cat myself.(She prefers rodents to birds though thankfully.)

    Why can they not place turbines on the outskirts of towns and cities, instead of slap bang in the middle of our beautiful countryside. Is it because that the land is cheaper?
    Away with the birds

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    12,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilter View Post
    Spurtle,
    I gave up long ago. Anyway, Rheghead's a cat in disguise. Didn't you know? He's had lots of lives in order to get all his qualifications and experience in his many and varied careers. There's a different career for every thread. That's why he knows so much more than us.
    Live life to the full!! Nowt worse than the ever looming rocking chair and no life experience to look back upon...
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Caithness
    Posts
    12,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nirofo View Post
    Why not say that there is no proof that there were even witnesses or that the windfarm is only heresay, what a load of crap!!

    nirofo.
    I walk into a room and see you crouched over a dead body and there is a smoking gun on the table.

    Without further investigation, can I say you shot the guy?

    No more than if someone came up to me with a dead bird with a eyewitness account that I could say it got hit by a wind turbine.

    No more than Tony Blair could say that weapons of mass destruction were in Iraq. (that one was for you fred )

    Of course you could put a lot of evidence from other sites into a big dossier but on this occasion with this bird, with this evidence?

    Sorry I can't but I admit it is a good possibility that it did happen but not that it did.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •