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Thread: bird strikes & wind farms

  1. #1

    Default bird strikes & wind farms

    In the light of the press report of a buzzard being killed by a turbine blade, is anyone researching bird strikes, around the wind farms currently operating in Caithness?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by spurtle View Post
    In the light of the press report of a buzzard being killed by a turbine blade, is anyone researching bird strikes, around the wind farms currently operating in Caithness?
    I do question the validity of such a report. Those blades turn quite slowly - it would have to be a pretty daft buzzard to have been struck by one. More likely is that the bird was blown into or flew into the structure itself.
    "Step sideways, pause and study those around you. You will learn a great deal."

  3. #3
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    I think this report speaks for itself.

    http://www.surfbirds.com/blogs/mduch...es/000042.html

    Birds are taken into consideration when wind farms are built in the UK.
    But alas bird dont expect a blooming great obstruction to drop into their flight path so these incidents will occur, although greatly reduced by sensible planning.
    The R.S.P.B will object strongly if windfarms are built near migratory routs or planned for bird sensItive areas.

    Colin

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    Default bird strikes

    Bird strikes are supposed to be part of the E I S but the fact is are that most EIS s are a joke .I have known of some EIS s where the consultants spent only three half days on site in a 30 months study and that only happen because the sun was shining .
    The Developer picks the consults and makes sure the questions that need to be answered are in a way that will suit .
    One Turbine Factory on the East Coast of Caithness had over 30 geese strikes in 1 day and thats the ones we know off
    Turbines are not a natural form on the landscape so birds can't compute the risk and so they really dont see them .It 's a bit like letting your 18 month old child to walk down the street unsupervised . The child would see the cars and can tell by the size ,shape that the cars are moving but they CANT take onboard is the RISK AND THE LIKELYHOOD they COULD BE killed .Birds dont have the capacity to assess what the Turbines are and the DAMAGE they can do
    99% of strikes go unreported because there is no one to see them happen and if they do find birds dead they sure as hell won't report them as it would put the EIS in jeopardy so the strikes are alot more common than reported
    If the TRUE figure was to get out the Turbine Industry would collapse over night as the planning permission would be revoked because the EIS s would be deemed untrue or false.
    I think that the Turbine operator knows what happen is not a one off and thats why they are keeping a low profile...
    If the Council have any guts they should stop the works and get the whole site reassessed...

  5. #5
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    Quote from Ricco

    "I do question the validity of such a report. Those blades turn quite slowly - it would have to be a pretty daft buzzard to have been struck by one. More likely is that the bird was blown into or flew into the structure itself."


    Ricco

    It may surprise you but a normal wind turbine blade at the tip is travelling at 140mph YES... 140mph even at 1/4 of the distance from the hub the blade is doing 35mph.

    This would be in a ground wind speed of about 14mph

    Even a buzzard would have difficulty dodging at these kind of speeds

    How Turbines Work

    Turbines use the principle of lift, which allows the rotational speed of the blades to actually surpass the wind speed. This is described quantitatively by the tip speed ratio: the ratio of the rotation blade speed to the wind speed. Turbines today that employ lift technology can reach tip speed ratios of approximately 10.

  6. #6

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    [QUOTE=dozy;185427]The Developer picks the consults and makes sure the questions that need to be answered are in a way that will suit .

    To confirm your atatement, here is the view of an honest consultant who tried to put an unbiased view to the developer who had employed him :

    HADRIANS BIRD WEEK
    12 Ð 20 Feb 2000
    JOHN MILES
    Jockey Shield
    Castle Carrock
    Carlisle, Cumbria, CA4 9NF
    Email John@birdsociety.softnet.co.uk
    26th March 2000
    Dear Brian
    Having seen both your letter and your article I thought it was time to write
    to you. I spent 3 years carrying out Ôenvironmental assessmentsÕ for wind
    turbine companies until I came up against the old enemy. I had previous
    worked for the RSPB from 1976 Ð 1991 and I challenged the establishment on
    their views. Here again as a free lance consultant I was facing the problem
    of a company claiming that my evidence was wrong for their own gain. My
    conclusion was that the site was finally not suitable for the turbines.
    The site was close to the other English pair of golden eagles and
    information from California showed that immature golden eagles were the most
    vulnerable birds when the turbines sites were erected. Also in Southern
    Spain large numbers of birds of prey were being killed by turbines off the
    Straits of Gibraltar. (The new Scottish site in Argyll where large amounts
    of money have been spent trying to keep eagles away from turbines is an
    interesting case!)
    The company paid another consultant for a one day visit to the site to write
    a report condemning my findings and came up with 13 statements that they
    wanted changing or I would not get paid for my work. He even changed my
    name to make his findings more suitable!
    I wrote a letter to the local press telling them what the company was
    playing at and after a long wait finally got paid although the company were
    given the last reply in the paper which I felt was wrong. I was never
    approached by a turbine company again!
    The problems of being a free lance consultant are that you are paid to write
    what they want to hear not the truth.
    I hope this is some help to you
    All the best
    John Miles
    copy ends

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    Default bird strikes

    I would say that the consultant is correct in what he says , they only hear what they want to hear and they only pay for the answers they want .
    I have worked as Engineer on these projects as the EIS needs to include the installation infastructure and have been lucky to work with one of the countries best Environmental Consultants and he lives in Caithness .
    Most of the EIS are of a very poor qualility and yet they get through and thats a Planning Department failure.

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    For those who have not seen the story

    http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk...pNodeId=149221


    I am keen to find anyone with info regarding the comment about the dead birds at the causeway mire turbine farm. Is this the case.
    Last edited by kas; 27-Jan-07 at 00:57.
    Away with the birds

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by dozy View Post
    I would say that the consultant is correct in what he says , they only hear what they want to hear and they only pay for the answers they want .
    .
    Environmental Impact Assessments (EIS) (or Environmental Statements ES), are a compulsory requirement for a windfarm development. The developer has to pay for it. When you pay for something you make sure you get what you want.
    Simple answer is for the developer to fund the EIS and the Planning Authority to commission it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kas View Post
    For those who have not seen the story

    http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk...pNodeId=149221


    I am keen to find anyone with info regarding the comment about the dead birds at the causeway mire turbine farm. Is this the case.
    Has the story been substantiated?
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  11. #11
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    Default bird strike

    See todays P&J page 6 ( Iain Grant)

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Has the story been substantiated?
    I believe the bird was picked up

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    Any bird strike is distressing if you are stood there watching but it is worth while remembering that birdstrikes with static buildings is far more common and just as deadly, let alone bird strikes with traffic, trains etc.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  14. #14

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    Isn't a busload of people not enough substantiation?

    I reported the incident to the area RSPB recorder,a photo of the bird carcass has been requested from the person who has it. I have reported one other strike in the past with photographic evidence, I believe it was a sparrowhawk (I am no expert).

    The evidence of the recent 'hit' suggests that it had been 'sucked' into the blade. Witnesses spoke of it flying past and wind disruption contributing to its demise.

    When we came across the sparrowhawk it had been struck from above, which suggests to me that it had been 'hovering' prior to it's demise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [I
    ywindythesecond;185553]Environmental Impact Assessments (EIS) (or Environmental Statements ES), are a compulsory requirement for a windfarm development. The developer has to pay for it. When you pay for something you make sure you get what you want.[/i]
    Simple answer is for the developer to fund the EIS and the Planning Authority to commission it.

    It's well known in serious birding circles that many of the windfarm developers require the environmental impact survey's to be doctored to read exactly how they want them. In many cases the true facts are never put to the approving bodies and councils, many of the councillors don't care anyway, the environment means little if anything to some of them. Why should they care if the visual amenity is ruined and the attraction for tourists is removed, they think it's bringing jobs and cash into the local community when in reality the only jobs are a few short term labouring jobs (remember the forestry planting), all the other jobs are short lived and provided by professionals from further afield. As for cash for the community, what a red herring, it's a smoke screen to tempt the local people into accepting the intrusion of the insidious windmills on their doorstep, it's peanuts compared to the huge profits the developers and landowners are making from the huge government (your money) subsidies). It's only later after these things are built that people realise what they've let themselves in for, it's too late then of course. Anyone who thinks these things are being built in an effort to alleviate the effect of CO2 emissions are living in cloud cuckoo land, they'll never replace our growing need for power and dependancy on conventional and nuclear power generation, it would take over a 1000 windmills to generate the same output that say Dounreay PFR used to put out.

    nirofo.

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    Nirifo

    You quote "it would take over a 1000 windmills to generate the same output that say Dounreay PFR used to put out"

    I am no lover of windmills but your maths are a little out... most wind turbimes at present are between 1 and 2 MW output. PFR was a 250Mw generator this would mean between 125 to 250 windmills would replace the old PFR generator.

    Modern nuclear power station now generate 2200MW so 1000 windmills would not even replace a new power station.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webmannie View Post
    Isn't a busload of people not enough substantiation?.
    Eyewitness accounts are very unreliable, especially mass eyewitness accounts, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance in poor visibility, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance in poor visibility from people who may not be looking in the direction at the time, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance in poor visibility from people who may not be looking in the direction at the time and who come from an area whose opinions on windfarms are not favorable.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Eyewitness accounts are very unreliable, especially mass eyewitness accounts, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance in poor visibility, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance in poor visibility from people who may not be looking in the direction at the time, especially mass eyewitness accounts from a distance in poor visibility from people who may not be looking in the direction at the time and who come from an area whose opinions on windfarms are not favorable.
    Why don't you just call the witnesses liars, don't beat around the bush.

    The bus was a minibus heading down past the turbine, I can't for the life of me class that as a 'mass' of people.

    The fact was it was killed (by the blade), there is no hiding that.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by webmannie View Post
    Why don't you just call the witnesses liars, don't beat around the bush.

    The bus was a minibus heading down past the turbine, I can't for the life of me class that as a 'mass' of people.

    The fact was it was killed (by the blade), there is no hiding that.
    Don't get upset, mannie, Rheghead is just a stirrer, with nothing better to do, and does not mean to be taken seriously - you will see him stotting around the forum, taking the contrary view on anything at all. If someone puts a price on his head, he should just take the money.

  20. #20

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    Cheers for that Spurtle, I don't get upset, this is just the internet. Where people can become whatever alter ego they like and say what they like. What I like about this great medium is that it works both ways.

    Anyway thats enough about that, digressing from the fact that the buzzard was killed by a wind turbine blade, which I know has not been an isolated incident.

    He can call me a liar, it doesn't change the fact that a bird is at a higher risk whilst around turbine blades.

    I'd like to see Rheghead dodge blade tips travelling at 140 mph. I'll supply the parachute. You up for it Rheghead, or is it too risky?

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