Spittal Potts

**Rheghead** · 19-May-13, 16:48

Originally Posted by Oddquine

Might be worth asking you, yet again, what you, personally are doing to reduce your carbon footprint....I have asked before, more than once, with no response from you...

That is because it is none of your business. I am only interested in how we, as in the every person we, can reduce our carbon footprint. I'm not an eco-warrior, but I am flattered that you think I am, however, I'm just an ordinary person who can plainly see that the Earth is heading for an ecological disaster.

So the upshot of what I am saying is this, if you want me to reduce my footprint to zero then I am all in favor of that but the Government must make it happen. They must make me reduce my carbon footprint and make everyone around me as well. Or do it in such a way that I do not have to put any effort in so I do not notice. I'm not going to go out and save the whales on my own.

**Oddquine** · 19-May-13, 19:26

Originally Posted by Rheghead

That is because it is none of your business. I am only interested in how we, as in the every person we, can reduce our carbon footprint. I'm not an eco-warrior, but I am flattered that you think I am, however, I'm just an ordinary person who can plainly see that the Earth is heading for an ecological disaster.

So the upshot of what I am saying is this, if you want me to reduce my footprint to zero then I am all in favor of that but the Government must make it happen. They must make me reduce my carbon footprint and make everyone around me as well. Or do it in such a way that I do not have to put any effort in so I do not notice. I'm not going to go out and save the whales on my own.

Lol! Just what I thought........you are only as green as not having to do anything about it as an individual will allow you to be!

You'll happy to see windmills thrown up all over Caithness.....just so you can continue to live the same lifestyle as if you weren't continually ad nauseam paying lip service to the idea windmills will cure all ills. Any ecological disaster will be due to our consumption of every darn thing...given nature hasn't done as much damage so far as we have done since the Industrial Revolution.

We could cover every spare inch of the UK in windmills....but as long as there are roads and people with 4x4s, airports with planes taking in and out people and goods....and carbon sinks being removed in the name of progress (and windmills).....the ecological disaster will possibly happen..but I suspect that won't bother you as you will be able to live till you die as you do now.

**Rheghead** · 19-May-13, 20:00

Originally Posted by Oddquine

Lol! Just what I thought........you are only as green as not having to do anything about it as an individual will allow you to be!

You'll happy to see windmills thrown up all over Caithness.....just so you can continue to live the same lifestyle as if you weren't continually ad nauseam paying lip service to the idea windmills will cure all ills. Any ecological disaster will be due to our consumption of every darn thing...given nature hasn't done as much damage so far as we have done since the Industrial Revolution.

We could cover every spare inch of the UK in windmills....but as long as there are roads and people with 4x4s, airports with planes taking in and out people and goods....and carbon sinks being removed in the name of progress (and windmills).....the ecological disaster will possibly happen..but I suspect that won't bother you as you will be able to live till you die as you do now.

The thing is that there will be no political appetite for going green if that meant that everyone had to go and live in a cave. The bottom line is that we have to go green or the Earth will face disaster. As individuals, we can only do what we can afford. The rich will feel smug for buying fancy solar panels and eco cars that cost a fortune but it is purely lipservice to the problem. We need mass movement on renewables so that we all go green.

Human nature will make us do nothing about it if we can get away with it. That is the honest answer. You can feel all high and pius by saying we have to keep the hills clear of wind turbines but at the end of the day, without any statutory instruments to make us more green the Earth is heading for disaster. Reality must take precedence over human political freedoms as nature cannot be fooled.

**Oddquine** · 19-May-13, 20:33

Originally Posted by Rheghead

The thing is that there will be no political appetite for going green if that meant that everyone had to go and live in a cave. The bottom line is that we have to go green or the Earth will face disaster. As individuals, we can only do what we can afford. The rich will feel smug for buying fancy solar panels and eco cars that cost a fortune but it is purely lipservice to the problem. We need mass movement on renewables so that we all go green.

Human nature will make us do nothing about it if we can get away with it. That is the honest answer. You can feel all high and pius by saying we have to keep the hills clear of wind turbines but at the end of the day, without any statutory instruments to make us more green the Earth is heading for disaster. Reality must take precedence over human political freedoms as nature cannot be fooled.

Don't you think if everybody believed the doom and gloom predictions, they'd be doing something themselves, though? Have we become such a nanny state that we have to be told eternally what to do as well as what to think and what we are allowed to say.or even worse expect to be paid for doing it? Not a lot of personal responsibility there.

We are turning into Pavlov's dogs...who have trained ourselves to salivate at the current buzzwords on fora. Yours is windmills, Flynn's is racism..mine, I suppose is independence (though Palestine runs it a close second).

Re carbon reduction.....personally.I think nuclear is a better option than windmills....and one nuclear plant would be less obtrusive than hundreds of windmills.and a lot more reliable. After all..those of us who aren't ameliorating our lifestyles now to ensure future generations don't have to, as you say, live in caves, because they, selfishly, still want to live as they always have, can't possibly be worrying about leaving our descendents up crap creek for centuries....because that is what we are in the process of doing already by waiting for the Government to talk....or legislate some sense into us!

**Rheghead** · 19-May-13, 20:55

Originally Posted by Oddquine

Don't you think if everybody believed the doom and gloom predictions, they'd be doing something themselves, though? Have we become such a nanny state that we have to be told eternally what to do as well as what to think and what we are allowed to say.or even worse expect to be paid for doing it? Not a lot of personal responsibility there.

I don't think that we want to be told eternally what to do. Who wants that? That is why I'd like green politics to be right at the heart of everything that we do so that everything that we do. Green politics should not be an inconvenient political add-on, it doesn't work, it isn't working. Too many powerful political giants are getting rich on the oil and gas market to allow it to happen I'm afraid to say. Nobody should have the right to opt out of doing their bit, that is why I like wind farms, everyone uses green electricity everytime they turn on a light switch. They even get to share in the environmental and economic benefits as well. If there is no option, certain people cannot get all high and pius about everyone around you not being as green as they should or claim to be. Nobody wants that because it spreads indifference and apathy.

At the end of the day, we need real political change that will make a difference.

**secrets in symmetry** · 21-May-13, 11:28

Originally Posted by ducati

I know a number of off grid people (mine isn't really up and running yet) small turbines 100 to 300w so they are very small, (the type you see on small pleasure boats) and a bunch of 80w panels and they are having to dream up ways of wasting the extra electricity they are generating. If you have room for a small garden shed you can do it.

How do they boil water for a cup of tea? How do they power anything on cold, still winter evenings? Do they have big batteries?

**mi16** · 21-May-13, 13:02

Originally Posted by secrets in symmetry

How do they boil water for a cup of tea? How do they power anything on cold, still winter evenings? Do they have big batteries?

Generator perhaps

**secrets in symmetry** · 21-May-13, 14:41

Originally Posted by mi16

Generator perhaps

Yes, that would work, but it would be a nuisance to have to start the generator every time you wanted to boil the kettle, or to switch on some other domestic appliance that would take your electricity usage over that produced by a wee 100W windmill and a bunch of 80W solar panels.

In the other hand, they may have a big bunch of panels - but even they wouldn't help after 4pm in winter.

**mi16** · 21-May-13, 14:50

Originally Posted by secrets in symmetry

Yes, that would work, but it would be a nuisance to have to start the generator every time you wanted to boil the kettle, or to switch on some other domestic appliance that would take your electricity usage over that produced by a wee 100W windmill and a bunch of 80W solar panels.

In the other hand, they may have a big bunch of panels - but even they wouldn't help after 4pm in winter.

Im guessing but if I would think they have a combination of panels, turbines, batteries, inverter and deisel alternator.
I would be interested to find out what such a system may set you back.

**secrets in symmetry** · 21-May-13, 14:57

That would be my guess too.

Knowing the price would be useful, as would more details of the actual setup.

**ducati** · 21-May-13, 15:51

If you're interested, there is loads of info on the net. I use 8x 110AH batteries and a 1000w inverter. The solar panels and turbine charge the batteries. This is sufficient to power the mobile home.

To power the house, I'll be using a 24v volt system. Probably 12x 2 volt cells (forklift batteries) a 1250w turbine (about £3-400) and 6 -8 80w solar panels (about £130 each including the charge controllers). Electric kettles are a no no, we use gas

A decent system including batteries, about £2500

I'm only using a bigger turbine because I have room and a windy location, you need to find a happy balance between wind and solar.

A small petrol genny is useful to put a quick high amp charge into the batteries should you need it.

A bit of effort but it is worth it surely to never have another lecky bill?

I should add, the inverter converts 12-24v D/C to 230v A/C

**secrets in symmetry** · 21-May-13, 16:19

Using gas to boil your kettle is cheating if you have mains gas. I'll let you off if you have gas bottles, or even a tank.

It'll be interesting to see how much power the wind turbine generates on average. Have you tested one at your location?

I was thinking about how much electricity I use at peak times. I could conceivably have the kettle, oven, microwave, washing machine, drier, dishwasher, TV, freezer, fridge, and probably some things I've forgotten, all switched on at once. I haven't worked out how much power that lot would consume, but it must be a lot!

What's the peak power your system (including the generator) will be able to provide, and for how long?

**ducati** · 21-May-13, 16:51

Originally Posted by secrets in symmetry

Using gas to boil your kettle is cheating if you have mains gas. I'll let you off if you have gas bottles, or even a tank.

It'll be interesting to see how much power the wind turbine generates on average. Have you tested one at your location?

I was thinking about how much electricity I use at peak times. I could conceivably have the kettle, oven, microwave, washing machine, drier, dishwasher, TV, freezer, fridge, and probably some things I've forgotten, all switched on at once. I haven't worked out how much power that lot would consume, but it must be a lot!

What's the peak power your system (including the generator) will be able to provide, and for how long?

Mains gas? In raural Caithness?

You are missing the point. The petrol generator isn't part of the system. (I could run everything off the genny all the time at 2.5 KWh. ). I don't know about peak output, that depends on the batteries. You do have to manage your useage. Idealy the batteries even out the generation against use. A pal is having to turn his fridge and freezer up full at the moment. In the winter you use excess power to heat water. In extreme cases you can use a dump system which will just heat up a lump of metal.

The thing to remember is you are generating most of the time whether you are using it or not. And I am not an expert, I'm still learning all this stuff myself.

**secrets in symmetry** · 21-May-13, 17:47

I was thinking of peak power output when I asked about the generator.

However, I agree that the generator shouldn't be considered part of the system, and you are of course right about peak output depending on the (state of the) batteries.

You may not be an expert, but you've clearly thought about the details far more than I have! As I've often claimed, energy storage is the key to making the whole thing work. (I think) I believe you can do it right now in a rural domestic setting - even if you have to resort to heating a lump of metal every now and then lol. The big problem is doing it on a national and international scale - you need a lot of batteries, hot water tanks, reservoirs, and perhaps even huge lumps of metal!

**secrets in symmetry** · 21-May-13, 17:51

As for gas, your challenge is to produce your own.

**Rheghead** · 21-May-13, 19:49

Originally Posted by secrets in symmetry

As for gas, your challenge is to produce your own.

I'm sure on the original 1970s tv series of Survivors they found a way.

**derek** · 21-May-13, 20:11

(This is the sort of entrepreneurial endeavour our County needs during the current economic barren spell) Can you explain how this is what our county needs and why it would benefit the county? apart from the land owner developer and wind farm company!