Just announced, Strathy North Wind Farm

[Bobbyian]

Sorry I have forgotten or overlooked the issue about the car, can you repeat?
Talking about Reliability ( stability of System) I use my car realtively not very often but if it had a reliabilty curve like the wind energy power creation I think I would have sent it back to the makers.
Imeant that if my car run like the power available curve of a wind Generator ie up and down etc

I am in fact neither for or against windfarms either. I think they can be badly placed in terms of damage to wildlife and aesthetic reasons etc, but where there are no major conflicts then I see no reason why a landowner and developer can't put one up.
I Agree but is a Tourist area not a major conflict? Hear they have them along the Motorway round Bremen. Not in but atleast near the town

I don't find them paricularly appealing to look at but I try not to let that influence my judgement on their performance which others seem to do. I respect any person who just thinks they are ugly and don't want them at any cost but when persons go on about irrelevent or even bogus issues because they think they are ugly then that will get me going.
I Agree

This is not a game for me, I feel very passionate towards the environment and I know full well there are many double standards we deal the world in terms of resources but windfarms are a nettle which we could all do well to grasp, moaning at them won't solve a thing.
I Agree

They aren't a golden bullet to cure the energy crisis but neither is solar, hydro, nuke etc etc. A balanced mix of generation even with fossil fuels, will help combat climate, free us from foreign influence and solve the issue of dwindling resources.
I Also Agree and add that ther may be more done if we can get Demand down

Yesterday, I had a quote over the phone for a solar heating system, £2600 so I am putting my money where my mouth is and going for it. Not every one can afford that sort of money but I inherited a little money just recently. I am stopping short of getting a turbine as I don't think we get enough wind where we are.

That is comedable, I know the systems are Expensive and I think there should be more subsidies in this to Householders. what I was looking at if I can work out a solution is to get the household running on Lets say for working purposes on 12/24 or 48v where it is easier to do local storage with Batteries and solar panals and or wind/Water for Charging. we use already solar water warming which reduces a lot of the energy requied for hot water etc so if I can get my demand down to nearly zero ( which is proberly impossible for a town House only thing that bothers me there is the size of Battery production if that was to fullscale for the population and all the chemical Hazards that brings with it.

[Bobbyian]

I so envy you your neutrality - neither for or against. But what if this is not the way? What if a few years down the line there's a change of policy or enlightenment of some kind. What if it's a mistake? Are there better options?
The quick answer is I don`t know, But I think I should do more to motivate engineers to look at all possibilities even if the main direction is governed by money.

It'll be too late for this county - the Highlands - we can never go back. Hundreds of miles of cables and thousands of tonnes of concrete industrialising our countryside for ever. The rewards (not financial) for losses such as these have to be comparable - there's no margin - no room for error, no ifs, buts or maybes. It has to be right.

on this I think the Politicians should also not forget that a large part of Scoltands Economy is reliant on Tourism and foreign people are not really motivated by a Landscape that is full of windmills ( unless its called Holland)
most poeple that I know here that go to Scotland do so because of the wild Landscape Views and that shouldn´t be forgotten and that is where the Thin line has to be found I think

[KittyMay]

on this I think the Politicians should also not forget that a large part of Scoltands Economy is reliant on Tourism and foreign people are not really motivated by a Landscape that is full of windmills ( unless its called Holland)
most poeple that I know here that go to Scotland do so because of the wild Landscape Views and that shouldn´t be forgotten and that is where the Thin line has to be found I think

That's so true, Bobbyian. This would be so much easier to debate if the price we were being forced to pay was comparable to the projected benefit - and more so if we believed these projections.
You attached a link to the Kilbruar windfarm, do you have any idea how many turbines/windfarms are being proposed for this area - we're not talking a couple of windfarms here? It's crazy numbers and our regional council are desperate to climb aboard this money spinner.
As to tourism, the wind industry and government just role out their survey statistics, tell us that tourists love windfarms and people living near windfarms are huge supporters.
Even our local councillors have suggested the tourist industry might benefit as a result of wind turbines - can you imagine tourists from around the globe choosing a particular holiday destination for the windfarms. They make comparisons between the environmental impact/intrusion of a windfarm to that of holiday cottages.

How are decisions on suitable sites for wind developments in your area made?
Is it left to developers and landowners to choose the sites?
How big a part does community benefit play in the proceedings?
What's your understanding of the grid problems in Germany? I understand that if Germany didn't have interconnectors with neighbouring countries there would be major restrictions on the level of wind generated electricity.

[KittyMay]

Well name one, you can forget wave, tidal, solar, hydro etc as they are all intermittent or unreliable as you like to call it and they will all need to use these 'never attainable' energy storage systems, lol

Forget nuke because they can't be used for fast changes in demand, you will still have to rely on fossil fuels to do that, more akin to what the French are doing.



Exactly, but if I was totally denying or acknowledging what you had said then you would have the same job on your hands trying to persuade me that you are correct, a bit like me trying to convince you that windfarms mitigate fossil fuels.

Is it me or are we going round in circles - I'm getting dizzy.

Can you define intermittant? Are we talking intermittant as in no wind, some wind, too much wind affecting generation or are we talking intermittant as in the fluctuations of power output (voltage - I'm not being clear but you know what I mean - flickering lightbulbs etc) when the turbines are actually operating - or both. The reason I ask is your reference to hydro being intermittant. I thought that when available hydro generated a firm supply - steady and controllable and reliable. I wasn't aware it was classed as intermittant.
There's so much to learn about this electricity milarky.

You're 2nd point/para has bamboozled me. I didn't think we'd disagreed that we'd be relying on fossil fuels for quite some time yet. Or are you suggesting that we don't use nuclear or fossil fuel. I agree nuclear can't be used for meeting changes in demand but it does provide about 20% of our baseload.
I'm just not clear on what point you're making - can you expand please.

I've agreed that windfarms displace some fossil fuel generation. I've just not agreed on how much or how beneficial it is in comparison to other options.

You made this statement in another post 'They aren't a golden bullet to cure the energy crisis but neither is solar, hydro, nuke etc etc. A balanced mix of generation even with fossil fuels, will help combat climate, free us from foreign influence and solve the issue of dwindling resources.'

Right let's move on.
What do you propose would be a realistic energy mix for Scotland - in say 10 years and 20 years time?
Would you provide a breakdown of all technologies and the levels you envisage for each of the renewable options - onshore wind, offshore wind, tidal, wave, solar and micro renewables.
You've mentioned that the grid can take intermittant generation of 20%.
I've read a number of reports which state that anything much above 10% is going to cause major problems on the UK grid system.

One last question - distributed generation/decentralisation is now considered to be the way forward - the future for electricity generation. Lots of small generators supplying communities, regions etc.

You support spending billions of pounds on developing onshore windfarms. You've acknowledged and support the spending of billions of pounds on upgrading the grid to carry this wind generated electricity south.

Does this fit in with our future distributed generation networks? Or is this another gap filler?

[Bobbyian]

[quote=KittyMay;187062]
You attached a link to the Kilbruar windfarm, do you have any idea how many turbines/windfarms are being proposed for this area - we're not talking a couple of windfarms here? It's crazy numbers and our regional council are desperate to climb aboard this money spinner.

I`ve only found todate that Nordex have an order as stated for 19 70 meter high turbines to the value of about 60 million euros for Kilbruar

and just before Christmas an order for 26 smaller turbines for a windfarm just north of Manchester for a company called Peel wind Ltd but I´ll have to check the name, to the value of 61 million Euros this company is really doing well they have manufacturingsites here in Germany and China If I remeber correctly 780 million Euros turnover last year.