What is Democracy?

[Phill]

I don't see the link between UK democracy and that being a mandate by the people to re introduce the death penalty.
To turn it on its head, to save the potential deaths of those convicted of murders, in a democratic system. You think it would be better to have a dictatorship?

[ducati]

I was thinking more of their forms of Democracy rather than of their economy. You think that a democracy and a diversified economy don't mix?

I think that the form of democracy will influence the kind of economy, along with things like natural resources and how well you did out of the last major global conflict.

[John Little]

Why do you lot chicken out of proper discussion? Direct democracy of the sort brought up by Orkneycadian and macadamia is likely to result in the reinstatement of the death penalty in this country. Flynn wrote a serious post on the other thread. Most of the rest of you are cackling childishly about pigs and ham on another thread. John Little doesn't want to discuss his views when challenged. That's not good enough. He wants the state to kill people on my behalf and he expects me to sit back and be silent. Or to join in his thread that he started to make fun of my objection to murder by the state. Isn't that sick? Flynn thinks I'm a stirrer. That's his right and I respect his view. I also support his clear forthright view on state sponsored murder as expressed on the other thread.

If you read through the posts again you will find that John Little was not 'challenged'. He did not even bring the subject up and did not attach his name to the issue of the death penalty in any way- you did that.

You may also reflect that there may be a certain insensitivity in attempting to frogmarch somebody into a 'discussion' when you are well aware of what their views are upon an emotive issue.

I have no intention of digging my memories out of their grave at the behest of anyone who has an axe to grind. There are plenty of people who will be only too happy to discuss this matter with you.

There is no particular importance to what I think.

[MerlinScot]

I wouldn't bother to reply to stupid provocations, John the 'stirrers' must always be ignored. Call it 'net-etiquette'
Nobody can be forced to express an opinion, especially in a 'democracy'.

[Oddquine]

Democracy should be something which empowers the whole population to make their views known...by voting...whether by plebiscite or within a political system which ensures that the majority view is heard and the minority view is not simply swept under the carpet as the Government caters only to the majority which voted for them.

I am very inclined to agree with Tony Benn thoughts here



Our Government and opposition do not want anything approaching democracy.....because if democracy is one person, one vote which counts for something, their fight against the adoption of the flawed AV system, which would possibly have changed the political landscape, even if only slightly, illustrates that they much prefer to hold onto their jobs, and the power to set the agenda to favour their own ideology at the expense of the general population.

I, personally, would make voting compulsory as it is in Australia...but I'd also have a "none of the above" box..so that dissent doesn't get hidden within a total of "spoiled ballots". With proxy and postal voting, there is no longer the need to get off the backside on a wet and miserable Thursday every five years to put a cross in a box.....so nobody has to make any real effort to vote any more.........and disenchantment with a bad system which means you don't bother to vote at all simply leaves that bad system in place as long as it suits the politicians.

Have to say....I wonder what would happen if the majority vote was for "none of the above" in that scenario....maybe a coalition of all those actually elected, a rush of compromise commonsense to the collective self-interest and political parties having a damn good look at themselves.......or more likely.....the immediate repeal of the compulsory voting law and the collective sigh of relief as they collapse back into their cushy comfort zone unbowed and unchanged!

[John Little]

He talks a lot of sense actually - I recognise what he is saying completely.

I have wondered about compulsory voting in the past and had doubts about how well it sits with the general UK culture. On the other hand if there was a small tax rebate to be gained by turning up and voting it seems to me that turn-out might soar. You know 5% off your council tax if you vote.

No compulsory voting because you don't know what they do in the booth - and sort of 'bribing' folk to turn up. Or an incentive, depending on how you look at it.

'None of the above' is a good idea though.

[orkneycadian]

Direct democracy of the sort brought up by Orkneycadian and macadamia is likely to result in the reinstatement of the death penalty in this country.

So aside from the debate on the death penalty (which was only cited as 1 example....), and replacing it in the above quoted statement with any other matter of public debate and concern, does this not suggest that we do not have democracy? If the majority of the public want sanctuaries to be built for fluffy bunnies, and no sanctuaries for fluffy bunnies get built, the democratic wishes of the population have not been fulfilled and we have no democracy?

Here's hoping that fluffy bunny sanctuaries are a safe example to use....

[crayola]

Murderers are murderers irrespective of who does the murdering.

[John Little]

Well now.

I started a thread on the meaning of Democracy- it was a perfectly good thread, but despite my best efforts it has turned into something else entirely.

There is another perfectly good thread running now on the death penalty, with a range of hard-held and honest views that I am sure that you take issue with.

But you did not comment on that all week until yesterday.

Why I wonder? It obviously mattered a lot so you would not just leave it…

Can it be because that discussion HAS to take place here on this thread and no-where else? I daresay that some of the folk over there on the other thread were wondering why you had not graced them with your presence after such a palaver on this one.

The Democracy thread has been murdered by somebody who wishes to talk about something else.

Now, when I look at the death penalty thread which I started but have taken no further part in I am minded of the words of Charles 1 when he waved the Earl of Strafford’s death warrant at his queen;

‘There Madam – do you see what you have made me do?’



Okay. I know when I’m beaten.

He who screams and runs away lives to chat another day.

I void the field, quit my thread and make it over to you as a gift to do with as you wish without let or hindrance.

I shall not post on it again; I give up!

Thank you to everyone whose comments helped to solidify my thinking over the last few days of bouncing my ideas round - they really were helpful.


It’s all yours Crayola- talk about whatever you like.


I think though you maun bear in mind that in future when you post a thread there may well be some caring souls who will enquire of you solicitously;

“Are you sure now Crayola, that you don’t want to talk about the Death Penalty?”

[crayola]

I was responding to Orkneycadian's post. I've had more pressing and important things to do this week. I don't have to make excuses to you or anyone else so don't flatter yourself.

[ducati]

In Egypt? It looks like they have the kind of democracy some of you want.