Against windfarms for good techinological reasons

**KittyMay** · 11-Jan-07, 00:06

Thanks for your comments Rheghead. Don't take this the wrong way but they really haven't helped a bit.

I'll try again though. Would anyone with a little knowledge of this subject be able to assist.

Anyone out there able to clarify the following re. this ‘gap’ in electricity production Rheghead refers to.

1 - Is it correct that currently there is no gap - even when the wind isn't blowing and the turbines are not generating - (that’s what Ofgem and DTI data states?) and at the moment as wind energy comes on line existing generators spend the day ramping up and down, depending on wind conditions, to accommodate wind energy, meet demand and balance the grid?

2 If there was an actual ‘gap’ between supply and demand (it’s forecast that about 20% of our generating capacity is to be decommissioned over the next 20 or so years) could wind energy be relied upon to fill the gap?

3 Would there not always be the requirement for a back up capacity (almost*) equal to that generated by the wind ie equal to the gap - on standby to ramp up when the wind doesn’t blow?? (*I know a little about G Sindens’ theory about spreading developments across the country but that’s a whole new debate – keep it simple for now)

4 If we’re always going to need the backup why bother with the turbines in the first place? Genuine question.

Answers on a postcard to .. only joking. Seriously, can anyone provide the truth?
Leave aside any climate/carbon issues and concentrate on security of supply only.

**fred** · 11-Jan-07, 01:56

Originally Posted by Bill Fernie

In addition community benefits from wind farms already up and running are already yielding significant suusme for the localities involved. This will possibly encourage others to join in as they begin to see the money being made availabl in smaller village groups. Will community council lend their wieght to suppor them and if they do not and oppose will they begine to have to deal with the wrath of local voters in community council elections if they are seen to be turning down the possibility of bringing in perhps the largest sums of money ever for theiir local areas. I throw these suggestions in for discussion.

None of this deals with the issue of what happens to all that electricity.

If Caithness ends up with power from 2,000 turbines that's going to be a peak output of knocking on 5GW of electricity, more than the largest coal fired powerstation in Britain and that feeds a good part of the industral north.

I cannot concieve they could ship that amount of electricity south, it would take two double-circuit 400Kv lines and all we've got is one 275Kv line. A 400Kv line costs up to a million pounds per killometer and with a peak more than three times average most of the time it will be vastly under used.

**Rheghead** · 11-Jan-07, 02:04

Originally Posted by KittyMay

Thanks for your comments Rheghead. Don't take this the wrong way but they really haven't helped a bit.

I'll try again though. Would anyone with a little knowledge of this subject be able to assist.

Anyone out there able to clarify the following re. this ‘gap’ in electricity production Rheghead refers to.

1 - Is it correct that currently there is no gap - even when the wind isn't blowing and the turbines are not generating - (that’s what Ofgem and DTI data states?) and at the moment as wind energy comes on line existing generators spend the day ramping up and down, depending on wind conditions, to accommodate wind energy, meet demand and balance the grid?

2 If there was an actual ‘gap’ between supply and demand (it’s forecast that about 20% of our generating capacity is to be decommissioned over the next 20 or so years) could wind energy be relied upon to fill the gap?

3 Would there not always be the requirement for a back up capacity (almost*) equal to that generated by the wind ie equal to the gap - on standby to ramp up when the wind doesn’t blow?? (*I know a little about G Sindens’ theory about spreading developments across the country but that’s a whole new debate – keep it simple for now)

4 If we’re always going to need the backup why bother with the turbines in the first place? Genuine question.

Answers on a postcard to .. only joking. Seriously, can anyone provide the truth?
Leave aside any climate/carbon issues and concentrate on security of supply only.

So you would agree that the energy which is currently being generated by the wind energy sector would be generated by gas or coal stations in wind's absence?

**Rheghead** · 11-Jan-07, 02:12

Originally Posted by KittyMay

Anyone out there able to clarify the following re. this ‘gap’ in electricity production Rheghead refers to.

I haven't said there is a gap in generating capacity.

**Rheghead** · 11-Jan-07, 02:20

Originally Posted by KittyMay

2 If there was an actual ‘gap’ between supply and demand (it’s forecast that about 20% of our generating capacity is to be decommissioned over the next 20 or so years) could wind energy be relied upon to fill the gap?

Who is actually claiming this? And can you give any links to it? Wind is not there to enable decommisioning of other plants, it is there to mitigate fossil fuel usage.

4 If we’re always going to need the backup why bother with the turbines in the first place? Genuine question.

I think you already know the answer to this question. It is to mitigate fossil fuel useage.

**ywindythesecond** · 14-Jan-07, 22:59

Originally Posted by fred

None of this deals with the issue of what happens to all that electricity.

If Caithness ends up with power from 2,000 turbines that's going to be a peak output of knocking on 5GW of electricity, more than the largest coal fired powerstation in Britain and that feeds a good part of the industral north.

I cannot concieve they could ship that amount of electricity south, it would take two double-circuit 400Kv lines and all we've got is one 275Kv line. A 400Kv line costs up to a million pounds per killometer and with a peak more than three times average most of the time it will be vastly under used.

Fred
The Beauly to Denny grid upgrade is estimated in round figures at £400million for 137 miles. That is closer to £1.8 million per kilometre.
We have to pay for it by the way.
ywindythesecond

**KittyMay** · 15-Jan-07, 14:53

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Who is actually claiming this? And can you give any links to it? Wind is not there to enable decommisioning of other plants, it is there to mitigate fossil fuel usage.

I think you already know the answer to this question. It is to mitigate fossil fuel useage.

Rheghead - if you were the slightest bit interested in the beef around the bones of this subject you would have sourced this information for yourself. As you're clearly not interested I won't bore you any further.

**golach** · 15-Jan-07, 16:18

Originally Posted by ywindythesecond

Looking for members.

Just a wee thought Ywindythe second, just how many members have joined up?

**Rheghead** · 15-Jan-07, 17:50

Originally Posted by KittyMay

Rheghead - if you were the slightest bit interested in the beef around the bones of this subject you would have sourced this information for yourself. As you're clearly not interested I won't bore you any further.

I am quite interested in it actually, so when you provide some beef on the bones instead of your beef over the windturbines then I am quite happy to discuss this subject. Still waiting...

**stevep** · 15-Jan-07, 21:19

I would be interested to hear from anybody who currently uses wind turbines and or solar panels for their own domestic use and what yields you are obtaining. Is it worthwhile?

**KittyMay** · 15-Jan-07, 23:47

Originally Posted by Rheghead

I am quite interested in it actually, so when you provide some beef on the bones instead of your beef over the windturbines then I am quite happy to discuss this subject. Still waiting...

Very good - I almost laughed but held back at the grinning stage.

So when you've done the necessary research let's discuss your findings.

Now I'm waiting.