Property values and the Independence vote

[Rheghead]

Yes agreed, costs, thats the real issue behind the lack of scale wave / tidal devices, although the costs are not borne to UK or Scotland, they will gain from revenues produced, the costs of design / prototyping / manufacturing wave / tdial devices runs into billions, its not the state thats paying this, oh the UK are not pushing renewables, in Scotland its entirely led by the SNP " The Saudia Arabia of Renewable Energy" that sits at the centre of the independance debate : in the absence of any UK government thinking / policies or interventions : we, the SNP, see the future of Scotand and the re building of our once proud yet neglected manufacturing infrastucture tied to renewable developments....The Saudia Arabia of Renewables...want proof...Thurso will be central to scottish ecomonic developments....must be true it wis in e Groat !

No, the Scottish government is administering the push for renewables in Scotland as it should be of course. The real push is from Westminster and the performance of Scottish renewables is incorperated into UK legally binding targets with the EU.

[rob murray]

No, the Scottish government is administering the push for renewables in Scotland as it should be of course. The real push is from Westminster and the performance of Scottish renewables is incorperated into UK legally binding targets with the EU.

Thanks, so the SNP Saudia Arabia of renewable claims, are actually driven by UK central government targets...so the propoganda is original but the idea isnt ?

[Rheghead]

Thanks, so the SNP Saudia Arabia of renewable claims, are actually driven by UK central government targets...so the propoganda is original but the idea isnt ?

I do not know who first coined the phrase that Scotland was the Saudi Arabia of renewable energy but each time I hear it I suddenly cringe. The facts don't add up for a start to support the analogy.

[Rheghead]

One of the schemes that Salmond has in mind is an interconnector between Scotland and Norway. He has tried to get funding from Westminster for it but no success yet. He is acutely aware that cooperation is likely to be less over the push for renewables in scotland after independence. So he needs options to export that energy. He needs to store the energy in the hydroelectric plants in Norway. Denmark already does this but at a huge cost.

[rob murray]

[QUOTE=Rheghead;973515]I do not know who first coined the phrase that Scotland was the Saudi Arabia of renewable energy but each time I hear it I suddenly cringe. The facts don't add up for a start to support the analogy.[/QUOTE

"Scotland's first minister, Alex Salmond, will eventually allow Scotland to become the "Saudi Arabia of renewable energy". More than any other country in Europe, Scotland's coastline is blessed with abundant, if unharnessed, marine energy"...blah blah blah...source The Guardian 2011,this phrase has been used many mnay times over the past two years by AS to promote the myth that renewable energy ( wave / tidal ) can re build Scotlands lost manufacturing base, yes the facts far from stack up a point I have made on this forum on many occasions, yet this arguement is key to future SNP economic claims that an independent Scotland will flourish on this the new oil.

[weezer 316]

IM no an engineer and wont pretend I understand a great deal about energy transmission becuase I dont, but what exactly is stopping England building lots and lots of its own windfarms, to go on top of its nuclear power and then harnessing wales renewables potential and making themselves self sufficent whilst we sit up here and produce several times the energy we use?

I am sure electricity harnessed here too, espcially this far north, is mostly going to go to waste before hitting even the central belt, never mind England...assuming they buy it.

[secrets in symmetry]

I do not know who first coined the phrase that Scotland was the Saudi Arabia of renewable energy but each time I hear it I suddenly cringe. The facts don't add up for a start to support the analogy.

You cringe because it's a lie. The wee fat ugly one is an expert in nonsense and lies. In that sense he's no different from any other odd loon or quine.

One of the schemes that Salmond has in mind is an interconnector between Scotland and Norway. He has tried to get funding from Westminster for it but no success yet. He is acutely aware that cooperation is likely to be less over the push for renewables in scotland after independence. So he needs options to export that energy. He needs to store the energy in the hydroelectric plants in Norway. Denmark already does this but at a huge cost.

Yes, indeed.

I have no idea how (or if) the energy storage problem for renewables will ever be solved in Scotland. Peter Dow has shown us on this forum how big a problem it is, but I doubt the wee fat ugly one would ever admit how much needs to be done - assuming he understands the scale of the problem in the first place.

[squidge]

(Interested now - Squidge asks) What needs to be done then? how could Scotland - in or out of the union, independent or devo max or not - make renewables work for Scotland? All the things that you guys say are not possible as it stands - how do we make them possible? There is a report today by the IPPR which says that the idea that wind power is inefficient and unreliable is wrong and that Britain can find huge benefit in Wind power. It calls for a pragmatic debate and here is a crazy idea - we could have one here.

Also the energy companies recieve massive subsidies and yet make massive amounts of money which they pay to their shareholders - are we actually paying subsidies to make private companies simply more profitable? Why do they need subsidies at all? Is wind power loss making just because it is or because the technology is rubbish or what? If the British government said they would be working towards only be buying energy from those companies that produce electricity from renewable energy wouldnt we see them striving to improve and develop this form of energy as a matter of course? Do companies not fund their own development and research - is it all funded by subsidies? What impact does EU targets have on this? How come we cant encourage these massively wealthy companies to move to renewables WITHOUT subsidies? Sweden seem to be way ahead of everyone in the use of renewables - what are they doing that we arent or cant? Are they subsidising their energy suppliers too?

SSE is expected to report profits of £1.44 billion and yet will recieve a subsidy of £53 million .....

Where does hydro schemes fit in with the energy picture?

[ducati]

(Interested now - Squidge asks) What needs to be done then? how could Scotland - in or out of the union, independent or devo max or not - make renewables work for Scotland? All the things that you guys say are not possible as it stands - how do we make them possible? There is a report today by the IPPR which says that the idea that wind power is inefficient and unreliable is wrong and that Britain can find huge benefit in Wind power. It calls for a pragmatic debate and here is a crazy idea - we could have one here.

Also the energy companies recieve massive subsidies and yet make massive amounts of money which they pay to their shareholders - are we actually paying subsidies to make private companies simply more profitable? Why do they need subsidies at all? Is wind power loss making just because it is or because the technology is rubbish or what? If the British government said they would be working towards only be buying energy from those companies that produce electricity from renewable energy wouldnt we see them striving to improve and develop this form of energy as a matter of course? Do companies not fund their own development and research - is it all funded by subsidies? What impact does EU targets have on this? How come we cant encourage these massively wealthy companies to move to renewables WITHOUT subsidies? Sweden seem to be way ahead of everyone in the use of renewables - what are they doing that we arent or cant? Are they subsidising their energy suppliers too?

SSE is expected to report profits of £1.44 billion and yet will recieve a subsidy of £53 million .....

Where does hydro schemes fit in with the energy picture?

For the developers and the energy companies, renewable energy projects are just a vehicle to deliver subsidies to them. No subsidies, no renewable energy. We see this in wind energy projects and now emerging tidal and wave projects.

[RecQuery]

I have nothing useful to add to this discussion. Only that the title got a chuckle out of me it kind of reminded me of something you'd joke the Daily Mail would say. Does anyone know how independence will affect cancer rates? On a side note practically every company considering investment in Scotland has said that independence will have no impact on that, some even say a lower corporate tax rate might even encourage them.

Then again it's just another excuse for people to insult the SNP and a politician on physical appearence instead of policies and a proven track record.

[ducati]

For the developers and the energy companies, renewable energy projects are just a vehicle to deliver subsidies to them. No subsidies, no renewable energy. We see this in wind energy projects and now emerging tidal and wave projects.

Of course the real scandal of this is the lions share of the subsidies is being spent on foreign kit so it isn't even being redistributed or creating jobs in the UK.

[ducati]

I have nothing useful to add to this discussion. Only that the title got a chuckle out of me it kind of reminded me of something you'd joke the Daily Mail would say. Does anyone know how independence will affect cancer rates? On a side note practically every company considering investment in Scotland has said that independence will have no impact on that, some even say a lower corporate tax rate might even encourage them.

Then again it's just another excuse for people to insult the SNP and a politician on physical appearence instead of policies and a proven track record.

It's a good question though isn't it? Particularly as no one can answer it.

[Corrie 3]

It's a good question though isn't it? Particularly as no one can answer it.

Thats because no one has a crystal ball Duke....You might as well ask .."How will 5 years of Tory rule affect property prices"...and no one could answer that either.

C3........

[Rheghead]

Thats because no one has a crystal ball Duke....You might as well ask .."How will 5 years of Tory rule affect property prices"...and no one could answer that either.

C3........

Yes but at least you know tory policy is to keep property prices up or they'll lose the vote of the middle classes.

[piratelassie]

Are you a Daily Mail reader by any chance?

In Caithness. Anyone any insights into how they will be/ are affected before the vote, after the vote yes (as if) and after the vote no. Presumably someone has studied the issue

I'm only asking because I'm thinking of putting a major investment on hold. Well, bailing out altogether actually.

[ducati]

Are you a Daily Mail reader by any chance?

No. I don't read newspapers, why do you ask?

[theone]

Ducati,

I think, as others have said, the rundown of Dounreay will have a much larger effect on demand for housing in Caithness and therefore house prices than the independence vote.

The lack of any real investment in the area is a worry, and the loss of skilled work will lower the average income and therefore house prices also.

For all the talk of renewables, I think we all know it will not bring the number of jobs or income into the area that will be lost from Dounreay.

If you're thinking about investing for investments sake, I would think Caithness probably isn't your best bet. If you're planning an investment that you can use, for example a new house, the saving on rent might make it financially rewarding.

[ducati]

Ducati,

I think, as others have said, the rundown of Dounreay will have a much larger effect on demand for housing in Caithness and therefore house prices than the independence vote.

The lack of any real investment in the area is a worry, and the loss of skilled work will lower the average income and therefore house prices also.

For all the talk of renewables, I think we all know it will not bring the number of jobs or income into the area that will be lost from Dounreay.

If you're thinking about investing for investments sake, I would think Caithness probably isn't your best bet. If you're planning an investment that you can use, for example a new house, the saving on rent might make it financially rewarding.

I don't know how significant Dounreay is. I only know a couple of people that work there but I know lots of people that own houses and property. The question really is; is the vote an extra factor? My feeling is it probably is and not just in Caithness. The investment I'm talking about is a renovation to live in, partly funded by the sale of our existing house (the coonsil will be furious ) It will be a significant capital outlay and I'm worried we won't see a reasonable return or may even lose value over time.

Incidentally, most of the higher earners I know work from home via phones and computers.

[theone]

I don't know how significant Dounreay is. I only know a couple of people that work there but I know lots of people that own houses and property.

There's nearly two thousand people employed directly at Dounreay and the best part of 250 or so at Vulcan.

That's hugely significant in a population sized that of Caithness.

What's the next biggest employer? BT? I'm sure they only employ a fraction of that, at a significantly lower average wage.


You may well be right, independance might influence house prices, especially if Scottish banks and lenders have a lower credit rating, but I thing local economic matters will have a larger effect.

[Alrock]

....The investment I'm talking about is a renovation to live in....

If it's to live in then why all the worry about house prices?
Does it really matter if it goes down in value if you have no intention to sell?
If you ever do decide to sell to buy another house then remember that that would have gone down in value also so you wouldn't be losing out.