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Thread: What is the SNP?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    Nah not for me Im afraid, just shows how late in the day "they" are leaving things ! For the record my preferance is for a devo max model, ie more devolved economic powers to a Scotland still remaining in the UK, the ineptitude of the UK government with their one stick for all approach plays totally into the hands of the SNIPS !!!!
    As a first step I would agree with that. But the Union needs a total overhaul - that is clear. We need to be some sort of federal state, and England needs its own parliament.

    Quite how you would correct for the imbalance of population in a federal authority would need close examination, and perhaps a confederation with a presiding Council would be best. The Swiss seem to do okay...
    D'oH! My brain hurts...

  2. #42
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    @ Squidge.

    There are no uncivilised Scots so you would have difficulty finding a couple.

    That is according to the gentleman whose comments I was reading on Youtube this morning.
    His opinions on the English were rather more... shall we say "pungent"?
    D'oH! My brain hurts...

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Little View Post
    My concern was to place The One's comment into context because he or she faced a lot of rage for something based on his/her own experience which I thought unjustified. Those people do exist and if I had met such then the impression that I would have formed would have been identical to The One's.
    Thank you John. Although we don't always agree on every point, you can certainly be depended upon to create a reasoned balanced debate.

    You are also absolutely correct with the knee jerk, red mist reaction to the comparison with the Nazi Party in Germany.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerry4 View Post
    I find your views offensive, bring the Nazi's into it. You do not have a grasp of what happened in Germany in the 30's & 40's then. I suggest you go away and find out before posting any more rubbish like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by piratelassie View Post
    theone, Your comments about the nazi,s is both offencive and ignroant, I suggest you educate yourself .
    To both these people I make no apology. What I said was:

    Quote Originally Posted by theone View Post
    The Nazi's hid behind a veil of political free speech and by playing on the heart strings of their people. The SNP do the same.
    Now, please, please tell me how you can POSSIBLY be offended by that statement? I attacked nobody. I never insulted anyone or their family. I never preached any hatred. Again, PLEASE tell me how that is offensive.

    To piratelassie, I probably shouldn't have made a jibe about spelling, but you probably shouldn't have questioned my education, especially in such an ironic way. Tit for tat.


    My comparison with the Nazi's are valid on many levels. It doesn't mean I'm accusing the SNP of gassing Jews or taking over Europe.

    Rheghead sees the comparison with using popular policies against their ideals to gain power, a means to an end.

    John touches on it with their support of oil against other "Green" credentials.

    Weezer sees it.

    Rob Murray mentions how the Nazi's benefitting poor economic conditions to gain popularity, as has been the case with the SNP.



    Propoganda, spin, whatever you want to call it is what wins elections, and I believe the SNP are current masters of it, one because they have a political genius in Alex Salmond (I think even the other parties wish they had someone of his ability) whereas the Nazi's had the same in Hitler, and two because, at least on the independance question, the separatist SNP are all "singing from the same hymn sheet" whereas the unionists are working as separate parties.

    Nazi. Nationalist Socialist. The SNP are both.


    To the person adding me to their ignore list to prevent themselves being banned, don't break the rules and you won't be banned. Self control. I can't for a second imagine why anyone would want to post in a debating forum without listening to all sides of the debate, but hey, each to their own. I don't thhink that was too Snyde, was it?
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

    - Charles de Gaulle

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by theone View Post
    To the person adding me to their ignore list to prevent themselves being banned, don't break the rules and you won't be banned. Self control. I can't for a second imagine why anyone would want to post in a debating forum without listening to all sides of the debate, but hey, each to their own. I don't thhink that was too Snyde, was it?
    Spill the beans Theone, who has added you to their Ignore list?
    I cant think for one minute who would do that as your posts are always truthful and honest.
    I have recently added someone to my Ignore list but you will be pleased to know it wasn't you.....
    Carry on the good work, you produce good posts.

    C3................

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrie 3 View Post
    Spill the beans Theone, who has added you to their Ignore list?
    I cant think for one minute who would do that as your posts are always truthful and honest.
    I have recently added someone to my Ignore list but you will be pleased to know it wasn't you.....
    Carry on the good work, you produce good posts.

    C3................
    Sorry Corrie, I misread your post #17 as being your intent to ignore me.

    I was a little surprised, I've always thought you better than that, and I'm glad it is not the case.

    I've not been "on the ball" with .org politics, there's been too many toys coming out of prams towards me recently! ;-)


    And thank you for the compliment, I enjoy a good debate with most, yourself included.
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

    - Charles de Gaulle

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by theone View Post


    And thank you for the compliment, I enjoy a good debate with most, yourself included.
    Thanks, that means a lot to me.

    C3..........

  7. #47
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    Just popped in after a long(ish) absence and see the 'Independence for Scotland' twaddle still filling up countless threads, God how boring!
    OK fine; have the romantic notion of a 'Free Scotland' - free from what? England ain't independent! Westminster? bloody hell that's stuffed with Scots, but it's good to see that 70% of Scottish folk realise it's a total irrelevance so it's 'bout time these Nationalist became more sophisticated and cosmopolitan - Good God, look at salmon, what an example to show the world..

    The 'United Kingdom' has been a working and successful entity; warts and all for a very long time - since being baled out. These Nationalist (and yes I have experienced their racism)* are hell bent on a romantic idea, which in reality has as much chance as a chocolate fireguard..
    Listen to the Unions on the Clyde, building the Royal Navy ships, whose source of income will evaporate, Wales is begging to accept the Faslane lot (nuclear and all)..
    "Woman for Independence", what on earth is that supposed to mean? it's so amateur, Are women still classed as chattels? maybe the SNP sexist as well?
    Anyway it ain't going to happen..

    So with that I'll leave again and after all the waffle and indignation and the 'disgusted from Dunoon' twaddle has died down, I'll have another pop in a few months from now
    (Free speech is great ain't it?)

    *I wrote a letter to the Press & Journal about the Israeli and Palestinian problem. the day after it was published I received an abusive phone call from a prospective SNP Councillor for Aberdeen who 'ordered' me to stop writing to 'his' newspaper! what an ignorant prat. Yes I did write to Nicola Sturgeon who assumed me that this was not the norm..
    "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

  8. #48

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    Have a look at this guy's video.I've a feeling he might be supporter of the Nats.

    http://youtu.be/gaX8WjRcifY

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitechina View Post
    Have a look at this guy's video.I've a feeling he might be supporter of the Nats.http://youtu.be/gaX8WjRcifY
    Whatever. His vote will count, the same as any other resident.
    D'oH! My brain hurts...

  10. #50
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    Nobody has answered me on the oil thing and I am really really curious.

    How does the SNP square up being a 'Green' party whilst at the same time placing such a dividend on the remaining oil which could fall to Scotland after independence?

    A prospective coal fired power station at Hunterston has been ruthlessly chopped. So why not oil?


    And the second question.

    Who will buy all this renewable energy to fill the coffers of independent Scotland?
    D'oH! My brain hurts...

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Little View Post
    Nobody has answered me on the oil thing and I am really really curious.

    How does the SNP square up being a 'Green' party whilst at the same time placing such a dividend on the remaining oil which could fall to Scotland after independence?

    A prospective coal fired power station at Hunterston has been ruthlessly chopped. So why not oil?


    And the second question.

    Who will buy all this renewable energy to fill the coffers of independent Scotland?
    I dont think anyone has asked that question yet John so I will put it to our local MSP and show you his answer.
    A lot of people are saying "What about when the oil runs out"? I think they forget that when it runs out for Scotland it runs out for England and the rest of the UK as well. So can anyone tell me what the Westminster Govt is doing to prepare for the day when it dries up? As people are loathe to have wind turbines in England are they going to rely on Nuclear for their power?

    C3............

  12. #52
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    Well the Westminster government is commissioning 10 new nuclear power stations for a start - one not too far from here.

    There's also wind turbines going up all over the place- like 'em or not.

    And I believe there has also been a small expansion in the coal industry in the last year...
    D'oH! My brain hurts...

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Little View Post
    Well the Westminster government is commissioning 10 new nuclear power stations for a start - one not too far from here.

    There's also wind turbines going up all over the place- like 'em or not.

    And I believe there has also been a small expansion in the coal industry in the last year...
    Yes British Coal (Note) are alive and well and backed by a major UK property company that also owns things like Clydeports, Mersey Docks, The Manchester Ship Canal and some of the Medway ports. (Peel Holdings if you want to look them up.)

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrie 3 View Post
    I dont think anyone has asked that question yet John so I will put it to our local MSP and show you his answer. A lot of people are saying "What about when the oil runs out"? I think they forget that when it runs out for Scotland it runs out for England and the rest of the UK as well. So can anyone tell me what the Westminster Govt is doing to prepare for the day when it dries up? As people are loathe to have wind turbines in England are they going to rely on Nuclear for their power?C3............
    That would be Rob Gibson - it was he who made the announcement on Hunterston. His reply will be very interesting. Thank you!
    D'oH! My brain hurts...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrie 3 View Post
    I dont think anyone has asked that question yet John so I will put it to our local MSP and show you his answer.
    A lot of people are saying "What about when the oil runs out"? I think they forget that when it runs out for Scotland it runs out for England and the rest of the UK as well. So can anyone tell me what the Westminster Govt is doing to prepare for the day when it dries up? As people are loathe to have wind turbines in England are they going to rely on Nuclear for their power?

    C3............
    It has been asked. I remember John Swinney once saying in an article that is simpy a case of needs must, as it accounts for around 20% of the scottish tax take. I would have thought that would be pretty obvious.
    There are basically 3 type of people in this world, those who can count and those who cant

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezer 316 View Post
    It has been asked. I remember John Swinney once saying in an article that is simpy a case of needs must, as it accounts for around 20% of the scottish tax take. I would have thought that would be pretty obvious.
    So they'll cut cards with the devil when it suits them then?
    D'oH! My brain hurts...

  17. #57
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    It is actually quite pleasing to see that the SNP are so flexible on a point of principle.

    In Politics it is, and always has been, important to have no principles on which you are not prepared to be flexible. Lloyd George for example, had no principles whatsoever and merrily clawed his way to the top of the tree by blaming everyone else for anything that went wrong.

    The mainstream parties are, of course, used to U turns, sudden changes of direction, playing it from day to day and making it up as they go along.

    The SNP is prepared to compromise on fossil fuel because it is a high revenue earner and the cash would be very handy.
    From being a republican party they now want to keep the monarch.
    From wanting to join the Euro they now toy with the Pound.
    Once they wanted to be a Socialist Party; now they are centre left and not quite as 'S' as they were.
    Mr Murdoch was once cool and now he's not.
    Once they wanted just Independence but now Devo Max will do.

    This is most refreshing in its acceptance of real situations. In Politics, flexibility and adapting to circumstances is everything and it's good to know that the Secessionists can be just as fickle, changeable, arbitrary and unpredictable as everybody else.

    I wonder if they will ever change their minds on Nuclear Power?

    Or Coal?

    I forgot - the Party Conference in October is to consider keeping an independent Scotland within NATO - after years of being dead agin it.

    Does this mean that there may be a reversal of policy on Trident too, as NATO is a nuclear alliance?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/9744177.stm

    And are there any points of principle on which they will stand?
    Last edited by John Little; 17-Aug-12 at 16:30.
    D'oH! My brain hurts...

  18. #58

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    That's a great post John, but you've missed a couple more U turns by Wee Fat Eck's Selfish Numpties Party:

    A few years ago, they wanted to take us out of the EU, then they became pro-EU and pro-EURO - before their recent anti-Euro U turn.

    They were anti NATO for years, until a few weeks ago when they decided they wanted to join NATO.

    It's interesting that you also realised they are the selfish party, and (in an older post) that their budget sums are based on oil tax revenue from 2008-09, which was the highest ever(?) at that time (at £11.9 billion IIRC) - as opposed to 1991-92, which was the lowest at just over £1 billion, again IIRC). Fiscal stability for a seceded Scotland that needs circa £10 billion of oil revenues to balance the budget? Aye right, Eck!

    I vaguely remember someone quoting the oft-made claim that Scotland would be the sixth richest country in the world circa 6 years after independence. This assumed the seceded economy would expand at the rate Ireland "naturally" expanded in the 90s/00s - which is one of the most ridiculous claims that even the Selfish Party has ever made! The claim was originally made by some libertarian free-market nutter (from the Adam Smith Institute IIRC) whose assumptions about the "natural" expansion of the Irish economy were so absurd that they were essentially downright lies.

    SNP fraudulent bean counting for a seceded Scotland is based on the current economies of the various parts of the UK - which is inconsistent with so many changes that would take place. Surprisingly, many economists make the same mistake.

    As for the reasoning given for secession on the Women for Independence website, it was worse than even I expected! Vapid twaddle is too kind. These women surely have too much time on their hands - you might think they'd been in jail with nothing better to do. Wait a minute, Carolyn Leckie was in jail, although not at the same time as her old mentor Tommy Sheridan....
    Last edited by secrets in symmetry; 18-Aug-12 at 21:50. Reason: Corrected the correction

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by secrets in symmetry View Post
    That's a great post John, but you've missed a couple more U turns by Wee Fat Eck's Selfish Numpties Party:

    A few years ago, they wanted to take us out of the EU, then they became pro-EU and pro-EURO - before their recent anti-Euro U turn.

    They were anti NATO for years, until a few weeks ago when they decided they wanted to join NATO.

    It's interesting that you also realised they are the selfish party, and (in an older post) that their budget sums are based on oil tax revenue from 2008-09, which was the highest ever(?) at that time (at £11.9 billion IIRC) - as opposed to 1991-92, which was the lowest at just over £1 billion, again IIRC). Fiscal stability for a seceded Scotland that needs circa £10 billion of oil revenues to balance the budget? Aye right, Eck!

    I vaguely remember someone quoting the oft-made claim that Scotland would be the sixth richest country in the world circa 6 years after independence. This assumed the seceded economy would expand at the rate Ireland "naturally" expanded in the 90s/00s - which is one of the most ridiculous claims that even the Selfish Party has ever made! The claim was originally made by some libertarian free-market nutter (from the Adam Smith Institute IIRC) whose assumptions about the "natural" expansion of the Irish economy were so absurd that they were essentially downright lies.

    SNP fraudulent bean counting for a seceded Scotland is based on the current economies of the various parts of the UK - which is inconsistent with so many changes that would take place. Surprisingly, many economists make the same mistake.

    As for the reasoning given for secession on the Women for Independence website, it was worse than even I expected! Vapid twaddle is too kind. These women surely have too much time on their hands - you might think they'd been in jail with nothing better to do. Wait a minute, Carolyn Leckie was in jail, although not at the same time as her old mentor Tommy Sheridan....
    And the alternative is...................Stay as we are and be governed by the Tories who have already said we are a load of Idlers. No thanks, I am willing to take the risk for Home rule.
    As for U-turns, there is nobody worse than the Tories for U-turns, and what has Tommy Sheridan got to do with the SNP?

    C3..............

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrie 3 View Post
    And the alternative is...................Stay as we are and be governed by the Tories who have already said we are a load of Idlers. No thanks, I am willing to take the risk for Home rule.
    As for U-turns, there is nobody worse than the Tories for U-turns, and what has Tommy Sheridan got to do with the SNP?

    C3..............
    The alternative is to remember the old adage that Unity is Strength and vote for a decent government in Westminster.
    The alternative is to support a change in how the UK government is voted in and put FPTP into the dustbin of History where it belongs.

    The alternative is to force a consultation programme on party leaders before they are allowed to form coalitions.
    The alternative is, as Rob Murray has said, to devolve powers regionally and reform the Union root and branch.

    The alternative is not to form a party of vultures, kill the UK and tear off pieces of the carcass because you think you can get the choicest chunks for yourself.

    The alternative is to give Britain good government.

    I make no apologies for being a Unionist now. I was undecided not so long ago and I must thank you for making me think.

    I am British, and you propose to break up my country because you want more pie instead of sharing the pie.
    D'oH! My brain hurts...

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