Women for Independence

**oldmarine** · 14-Aug-12, 20:00

Originally Posted by squidge

No we are not stupid spurtle but women are under represented in the world of politics and many women feel disassociated with the debates that are going on just now. It is interesting to have a space to listen to women and see what their views and what prevents them from being involved. I think its a good thing and as there are all sorts of groups who are discussing how independence affects them and what they want to see in an Independent Scotland then it seems logical for women to do so as well. I feel that I have a voice but many many women across all walks of life are saying they do not feel that way. They feel ignored and powerless - the aims of the group are to improve that.

Gronnuck you are wrong - this is not about exclusion - the idea is to engage with women who are not engaged just now and that will only increase inclusion in the debate rather than be about excluding people. There are many groups taking the debate to all sorts of people who have felt disconnected from it. This is another one.

squidge: Again I agree with you. Women in the USA were denied voting rights for too many years before the women's sufferage act turned it around. I am all for women having equal rights with men. I have been blessed with a wonderful wife and she helps me to see a woman's view on matters that I might overlook.

**squidge** · 15-Aug-12, 15:51

There was an interesting piece on Scotland tonight last night about this subject http://player.stv.tv/programmes/scot...12-08-14-2230/

**rob murray** · 15-Aug-12, 16:36

The cynic in me see's this as the creation ( aided and abetted by party support ) of a focus group, shows how ahead of the game the nats are re propoganda.

**whitechina** · 15-Aug-12, 21:12

Originally Posted by squidge

I have been involved in this group from its beginning and I am delighted to let you all know that it has gone live today. Media Coverage has been reasonably positive and there is to be a formal launch in Stirling on 30th September

http://womenforindependence.org/

Here is an article written by one of the original members

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/08/13/indy-women/

Enjoy!!!

ENJOY??? Hahaha! It's just another front for the S.N.P.Another bunch of misty-eyed, tartan clad,shortbread munching,haggis hunting nationalists whose strings are being pulled by the Dear Leader Soapy Salmond. I can't wait to see how many more such groups the SNP creates in the run-up to the Indy referendum.

**ducati** · 15-Aug-12, 21:39

Originally Posted by rob murray

The cynic in me see's this as the creation ( aided and abetted by party support ) of a focus group, shows how ahead of the game the nats are re propoganda.

Well, from what I can see, the Nats are very proactive, but preaching to the converted and the Union supporters are not very active in the propaganda field but don't need any convincing. So I can't really see where any swing, either way, is likely to come from.

**Rheghead** · 15-Aug-12, 21:48

Originally Posted by squidge

I have been involved in this group from its beginning and I am delighted to let you all know that it has gone live today. Media Coverage has been reasonably positive and there is to be a formal launch in Stirling on 30th September

http://womenforindependence.org/

Here is an article written by one of the original members

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/08/13/indy-women/

Enjoy!!!

So! Instead of the initial impression that you willing to give us that you were a person who just seems to think that independence may be a good thing, you do seem to be quite the convert and political activist.

**squidge** · 15-Aug-12, 21:54

Originally Posted by Rheghead

So! Instead of the initial impression that you willing to give us that you were a person who just seems to think that independence may be a good thing, you do seem to be quite the convert and political activist.

No Rheghead..... . I announced my decision right here so there was no doubt and so that people would not be misled http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...s...-decisions..... Did you forget or did you just want a dig? What you see is what you get with me Rheg....

I blog too and have made no secret of that either......

**Rheghead** · 15-Aug-12, 21:58

Originally Posted by squidge

No Rheghead..... . I announced my decision right here so there was no doubt and so that people would not be misled http://forum.caithness.org/showthrea...s...-decisions..... Did you forget?

I blog too and have made no secret of that either......

It is one thing thinking that independence is a good thing and voting Yes, but it is a whole different animal by being so politically active for a cause, especially when you weren't completely up front with us and even having doubts about it.

**squidge** · 15-Aug-12, 22:09

Here just for you

Sue Lyons (you)
Member - joined May 31

How is it different to lend your support to a group which offers a space for something you are interested in? This group interested me as it was about and for women. Being part of this group is one of the places that have allowed debate and encouraged expressions of doubt and uncertainty and some of these helped me to make my mind up. Incidentally, I also asked around to find if there were any women's groups as part of the "NO to Independence" side and was told there werent. I have explored joined and unjoined many groups, forums and pages in an effort to make an informed decision and as soon as I was ready to commit my support I informed anyone who might be interested.

Im going on the march on the 22nd of September and have a few leaflets left after delivering some - want to complain about that?

.

**Rheghead** · 15-Aug-12, 22:18

Originally Posted by squidge

Here just for you

Sue Lyons (you)
Member - joined May 31

How is it different to lend your support to a group which offers a space for something you are interested in? This group interested me as it was about and for women. Being part of this group is one of the places that have allowed debate and encouraged expressions of doubt and uncertainty and some of these helped me to make my mind up. Incidentally, I also asked around to find if there were any women's groups as part of the "NO to Independence" side and was told there werent. I have explored joined and unjoined many groups, forums and pages in an effort to make an informed decision and as soon as I was ready to commit my support I informed anyone who might be interested.

Im going on the march on the 22nd of September and have a few leaflets left after delivering some - want to complain about that?

.

Hardly an exercise in objectivity. The Yes/No campaigns have hardly started and there are 2 years to go before the vote. You inquired if there was a No to Independence group, so instead of forming one yourself, you promptly embark on forming/being involved in a group for Yes to independence.

you don't have to join groups etc to make one's mind up for goodness sake.

**squidge** · 15-Aug-12, 22:30

I was actually invited to this group precisely because I was undecided and wrote about it. I joined other NO groups and forums but ..... why am I even bothering to explain this to you. You found what you think is duplicity so go ahead and exploit it - I dont need to care what you think - im not standing for election - I have been open and upfront with this board as to my political leanings which is more than many people. If you are insulted or feel injured then you must feel I am more important than I think I am.

but ...... just for you

I am pro independence If there was a referendum tomorrow I will vote YES....... I am not a member of ANY political party but i have been a labour voter most of my life and an SNP voter for the last few years. I think I am a socialist actually probably more than anything. I will try to contribute to the debate by giving the best answers i can to questions from my own point of view using as much independent and objective information as I can find - I will join whatever group and whatever pages I like to enable me to explore and evaluate the issues affecting Scotland and particularly women within Scotland because that is my interest and I will be joining the march for Independence....If I find evidence which is compelling and will show me the things I want to achieve can be found within the union then I may change my mind.

Is that clear enough for you?

**squidge** · 15-Aug-12, 22:33

Oh.... Im also 48 and three quarters and take a size 6 shoe......

**Rheghead** · 15-Aug-12, 22:35

Well if you are undecided then you don't just jump on the nearest bandwagon for the Yes vote get swept along with their propaganda. If you are serious about making an informed viewpoint then you would wait until all the information is in and vote as your concsience takes you about 5 minutes before you enter the voting booth. That is real objectivity, instead you are now just a source of propaganda for one side of the debate.

**squidge** · 15-Aug-12, 22:45

I have been thinking, talking debating, exploring and considering this since before I started voting SNP and in more detail since the SNP won a majority government and I knew there would be a referendum. In fact I have been considering this question since I voted for a devolved parliament and cheered as Donald Dewar took his place as first minister. I have been interested in politics for many years and in womens issues since I was a wee girl - i have been a feminist all my life. Do you really think that I have only decided this from what I have read in the last six months?

Dont judge everyone by the way you behave yourself.

**Rheghead** · 15-Aug-12, 22:56

Originally Posted by squidge

I have been thinking, talking debating, exploring and considering this since before I started voting SNP and in more detail since the SNP won a majority government and I knew there would be a referendum. In fact I have been considering this question since I voted for a devolved parliament and cheered as Donald Dewar took his place as first minister. I have been interested in politics for many years and in womens issues since I was a wee girl - i have been a feminist all my life. Do you really think that I have only decided this from what I have read in the last six months?

Dont judge everyone by the way you behave yourself.

But it is not me that is just in the Yes camp - for now. Don't you owe it to your fellow nationalists that you are comitted to the cause? Don't you think you would be more convincing for Yes to independence if it was that good then you didn't need to do all this group therapy for a Yes vote? You don't come across as a convincing politician.

At least with Oddquine, you know what you are gonna get.

**squidge** · 15-Aug-12, 23:03

I dont know what you mean.... group therapy? Are you talking about the women's group?

I am not a poltician Rheghead - I am a voter.

**Rheghead** · 15-Aug-12, 23:17

Originally Posted by squidge

I dont know what you mean.... group therapy? Are you talking about the women's group?

I am not a poltician Rheghead - I am a voter.

No you are a politician, a political activist.

I tell you what and I don't mean to be in the remotest bit insulting but I think you have got caught up in the romance of the free and independent Scotland thing. All your eggs are all the one basket now so I can see why you come across so evangelical about the Yes vote. The converts always are.

If you took away the romantic aspect of how Scottish you feel and how you see your life right now and let your logical mind kick in then you wouldn't be so pro-independence. But then independence is that isn't it, it is a dream or a utopia. In every Scot there is a bit that wants an independent nation.

**squidge** · 15-Aug-12, 23:59

I am carried away with the romance and display the blind evangalism of the converted and yet in another post not committed enough????

I am not a nationalist of the heart.I dont think that the English oppress the Scots. I am evangelical you are right but it is about fairness and equality within society and if you bother to check back you will find that this has remained constant throughout my entire time of posting on this forum. I am not scottish although I do feel I belong here, it is my home - I am one of Scotlands people but I am english and I both sound and feel like a northerner. I dont yearn for freedom - I am free. I love Scotland and I am happy here but I am not happy with the society we live in - I do not believe we live in a fair and equal society. I think we can do better but I dont beleive there is the poltical will or impetus to change things for the better within the union either now or in the forseeable future.

After careful consideration and after exploring the potential for change within the Union over many years, I am of the opinion that an Independent Scotland offers us the best chance of changing things and the best chance of developing a society which is better and fairer than what we have now. It is the opportunity for that which excites me and as with anything I have done all my life I will strive to do MY best to contribute to a society that ensures people get the best chance of achieving their potential. I have been a member of many voluntary groups, charities, campaigning groups over the years to try to address inequality, both in my personal and working life and this is part of the same thing. The women's group actually has as its aims to listen to women and their opinions about independence to inform the debate and to assist with designing the kind of democracy, the kind of parliament and the kind of society we would like to see in an Independent Scotland. It says

We are an open and diverse network of women who support independence for Scotland and will work with others for a Yes vote in the referendum.
We will ensure that there will be a space for women’s voices and interests in the campaign.
Independence will create opportunities for women to engage in developing a fully democratic vision for Scotland’s future. Women should play a central role in achieving independence.

If that makes me an activist then so I am - I am an activist for a better society and I have been all my life - Im proud of that. You say I am nothing but a bedazzled dreamer.

Is it a dream? Do I dream of Independence? No - MY dreams are about the eradication of child poverty, fairer taxation system, better care for the elderly for looked after children and for each other, a society which encourages everyone to achieve their own potential and a million other things. Grandiose they may be but they are precisely why I can stand firm for Independence and yet say that I may change my mind if I am no longer convinced that Independence offers the opportunity for change that I hope for. That is precisely why I am not a romantic nationalist - i would not have independence at any cost. I want a better society and that's what I am striving for - in fact what I have striven for all my life. I think Independence offers us the opportuntity to have that better society and it is THAT which drives me not some silly idea of a Brigadoon.

Your dismissal of my views as romantic are the forum equivalent of patting me on the head.. It shows that you pigeon hole me as foolish and therefore dismiss what I have to say as nothing. Thats fine Rheghead - you do that, however it is patronising and disrespectful and i have seen better from you. You have obviously made your mind up about me despite never having met or had a private conversation with me. If it pleases you then carry on and think that I am some empty headed woman with nothing to do but dream of Walter Scott stories and tales of Scottish history, mist laden hills and a free wild Scottish hero to carry me away from all of this oppression.

Please yourself Im off to bed.... to sleep perchance to dream maybe.... i hope so!!!!

**rob murray** · 16-Aug-12, 10:11

Originally Posted by squidge

I was actually invited to this group precisely because I was undecided and wrote about it. I joined other NO groups and forums but ..... why am I even bothering to explain this to you. You found what you think is duplicity so go ahead and exploit it - I dont need to care what you think - im not standing for election - I have been open and upfront with this board as to my political leanings which is more than many people. If you are insulted or feel injured then you must feel I am more important than I think I am.

but ...... just for you

I am pro independence If there was a referendum tomorrow I will vote YES....... I am not a member of ANY political party but i have been a labour voter most of my life and an SNP voter for the last few years. I think I am a socialist actually probably more than anything. I will try to contribute to the debate by giving the best answers i can to questions from my own point of view using as much independent and objective information as I can find - I will join whatever group and whatever pages I like to enable me to explore and evaluate the issues affecting Scotland and particularly women within Scotland because that is my interest and I will be joining the march for Independence....If I find evidence which is compelling and will show me the things I want to achieve can be found within the union then I may change my mind.

Is that clear enough for you?

Perhaps you should really focus and research the central theme of SNP economics, the role that renewable energy ( wave and tidal ) will allegedly play in re creating Scotlands lost industrial heart land ( substitute renewables for "Clyde" build ) "The Saudia Arabia of Renewables", see my previous postings but to repeat

1 How much actual money has been "given" for renewable developments
2 How many actual wave / tidal working devices are currently being used ( in Scottish Waters )
3 WHo owns the IPR rights to devices / how many direct scottish based companies are involved in renewables
4 How many manufacturing jobs right now are visible
5 How many supposed wave / tidal devices are actually at the stage of production, the "majority" are still at prototype stage
6 Given the predicted zero / slow world wide growth who is going to finance the move from prototype to actual manufacturing
7 Look in Caithness, where are the new electricty sub stations to handle supposed power from tidal renewables

recent press statments alluded to the comming booming northern economy with full employment, manufacturing jobs, new hotels, marinas etc etc all off the back of wave and tidal devices in the pentland firth.....fed by SNIP propoganda, so its a stark choice, do you believe that this will happen ( and its said it may take 30 years ) or dont you, if you dont you cannot support seperatism, if you do then seperate. Ive seen enough now at first hand to know the lies being peddled and the obvious compete economic catastrophe facing Caithness in 10 years time when UKAEA seriously down sizes : Wake up you are being conned by a first class con man / high stakes gambler