Sir Chris tells it as it is.

[squidge]

money spent in Scotland will be spent where there are the biggest populations, because that's where the biggest amounts of voters are, Independence will not change that.
In my opinion the Parliament in Scotland should work for the people of Scotland for at least 2 generations with maximum devolved power so as to allow the people of Scotland to gauge the benefits of having partial Independence before they vote in the issue of full Independence. At this moment in time my perception of the political standing is that the Scottish National Party are playing Russian roulette with my country...

Independence WILL change that maverick because currently the money spent in he UK is spent on the priorities of the UK government - a government which is run by the conservatives - and you can argue that it is a coalition all you want but actually it is a tory led government and scotland voted ONE tory MP. The priorities of this government are NOT what the people of Scotland voted for. At the very least the priorities of a Scottish elected government will be those for which the Scottish electorate voted! And at the very least if what you say is true and them money will be spent on the areas where there are largest populations doesnt that equate to all the money being spent on London and the south east? Wouldnt it be better for the money to be spent in Scotland? Also if you want devo max and your suggestion is an is an interesting idea maverick - do you not support Alex Salmonds proposal that this referendum should be a two question referendum?

[maverick]

Squidge as I already said in my previous post, I understand your point of view and where you are coming from. You are right, monies spent in the UK are spent on priorities of the UK government, of which Scotland is still a part, now given the fact that only 1 tory MP was elected in Scotland sends a message to the UK government that the tories and their policies are not wanted here in Scotland. I do not believe that having an Independent Scotland will make things better, it is my understanding that all monies from the UK treasury are given to the Scottish Parliament who already decide where the money is to be spent in Scotland. If Independence means that we are going to simply adopt the same system of government whats the point of Independence?...

[squidge]

The point is Maverick that we dont have to..... We can choose to develop a competely different system of government if we want. Now that might happen quickly as the parties change and alter after a yes vote in the referendum or it may take some tiime but the opportunity will be there and you will be able to influence that with your vote. I was invited to an event in Edinburgh earlier this summer to look at that exactly - what sort of democracy people would want in an Independent Scotland run by the electoral commission. There will be other events for people to get involved with and have their voices heard. One thing though - without Independence there is little opportunity for change and little opportunity for influence even within our own UK.

[squidge]

Anyone who thinks an independent Scotland will have influence in the EU and NATO is deluded; do you seriously believe France and Germany wil pay heed to us, I dare say even the English will treat as as the runt of the litter. We don't and won't have the economic or military strength to be able to have a strong say in the decisions that are made. I'm afraid we'll be seen as just the wee yappy dug thats bark a lot but is actually quite weak.

Deluded - Thanks for that Joxville!!!! Very polite! There are plenty of reports and studies on this issue which show that small countries Can have and DO have influence in the EU particularly. The committee structure within the EU allows for the voices of small countries to be heard and to contribute to policies and procedures. It isnt the all encompassing influence of Germany and France but then small countries tend to have more specific goals dependent on their own economic or social aspirations. Where they focus on their own particular needs there is evidence to show they can be infuential. There is also the point of view that the influence that the UK has is diminishing through its own attitude to Europe and that being a fully committed member of the EU may give small countries more influence that Britain has currently.

As for NATO membership of NATO will give us the extra support and expertise we need to develop a defence force and a well defined and outward looking foreign policy - our own influence will depend on the role that Scotland chooses for itself ie: whether to be part of peacekeeping forces only or whether to be part of any aggressive forces. We can however decide for ourselves. And that also means we can decide on membership - simply because the SNP now state that membership of NATO is their policy doesnt mean that it will be the policy in an Independent Scotland because, as I have said before, the government deciding on these issues will be voted in after the referendum and might not be an SNP majority government.

Remember also that influence works both ways and we need to also be influenced BY the other countries that are part of the organisations we are talking about in order to ensure that we grow and develop as a newly independent country.

[Rheghead]

Anyone who thinks an independent Scotland will have influence in the EU and NATO is deluded; do you seriously believe France and Germany wil pay heed to us, I dare say even the English will treat as as the runt of the litter. We don't and won't have the economic or military strength to be able to have a strong say in the decisions that are made. I'm afraid we'll be seen as just the wee yappy dug thats bark a lot but is actually quite weak.

Agreed.

And there is another delusion which the SNP have and that is they believe that by separating militarily from the UK then Scotland will enter a blissful period of Caledonian Isolationism from the world's conflicts.

[Oddquine]

Can you say anything about the Union that might be a force for good?

If I could I would. Can you say anything about the Union that might be a force for good?

[golach]

If I could I would. Can you say anything about the Union that might be a force for good?

Team GB did well!

[Mystical Potato Head]

Its what he did NOT say Changi, the reporter tried everything to make him say he supported the Nats, and he did not say a word.

He said he was “frustrated” in getting drawn into the political battle over the SNP’s plans to create a separate Scotland but concluded that he was “very proud” to be part of Team GB.

Maybe,unlike you,he doesnt feel the need to voice his political opinions in public so that people dont use anything he says as a tool in their pathetic political games.
He hasnt said anything anti SNP but you twist that around to suit your own boringly predictable and extremely repetitive anti SNP agenda.

Chris HOY said "it's frustrating because as an athlete all you want to do is race and be the best you can and not get dragged into politics."
So in his own words he doesnt wish to be drawn into politics but that didnt stop you using the words he didnt say ,thats the words he DIDNT SAY!!!
to make him sound anti SNP.

Maybe he is anti SNP but he didnt actually say so.He is very proud to be part of team GB but he also has been very proud to represent Scotland in the commonwealth games and has stated it would be the ultimate swansong to represent Scotland in the 2014 commonwealth games in Glasgow.Like he says,you can be proud of both without being pro or anti unionist

He may,like an ever increasing number of people,have no interest in politics whatsoever or he may be sick and tired of the pro/anti SNP debate and sick and tired of the
people who twist words or use words which were never said(i think thats called lying) to suit their political agenda.

[joxville]

Sorry Squidge, maybe deluded was too strong a word. Maybe I'm wrong here but I have to bring class into it. My perception for a long time has been the independence movement appears to have been led by the middle class, they talk down to the working class by telling them what's best for them, that they, (the middle class), know better. At the moment the working class are more worried about having to pay bills, or worse, trying to find work, than to spend any length of time thinking about what Salmond and his ilk want, and I believe that's the hardest thing the SNP has to overcome, the apathy and cynicism of working class people. I'm not suggesting the working class are uneducated and don't understand what's happening, they understand fully what's happening in Scotland just now. I think the fear is if it all goes wrong, that the ones who will suffer most is those who can least afford to lose what little cash they have, that services they depend on will be cut, hospital treatment will be harder to get due to less doctors and nurses to treat them, council services will be cut to the bone, all the while their taxes will go up. I don't trust Salmond, the man has too big an ego, and for too long he's been a wee fish in a big pond, now he wants to be the big fish in a wee pond, even if that means Scotland paying the price for his vanity.

[squidge]

Thanks Joxville and I would maybe agree if you concentrate on the way it is being portrayed in the mainstream media however when you are on the street, in the pubs, involved in the debate you find that it is the ordinary man or woman who is leading the push for independence outwith party politics. They are not leading on behalf of the SNP but for Independence. If you read the blogs, the facebook pages, attend the various events - there is a march for independence in September in Edinburgh for example -you will find many many ordinary working people who are fed up of the way successive UK governments have ignored their concerns and needs and dont care that they ares struggling to pay the bills and put food on the table. At this march there will be people walking and speaking, across a whole range of parties and organisations and classes lol. There is a recognition amongst many that it things will not get any better as long as we are governed from Westminster.Here we have another example of this.... http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/po...nefits-1166473 The parties in Westminster are pretty much one and the same - there is little difference between them and no desire to build a fairer and better society. There are groups like Labour voters for independence and Women for independence and Voters Alliance for Scottish Independence who are cross party, sometimes volunteers, many not connected to the SNP and many who are not academics, or professionals.


I get why you dont trust Alec Salmond but this is not about Alec Salmond - its not even about the SNP - it is about the chance to build a society in Scotland which will look after the needs of the ordinary people rather than ignore them whilst feting those at the top of the pile. Fairer - more equal - It is the start of something exciting and empowering and if you look with an open mind and a fresh pair of eyes you will see that.

[Rheghead]

If I could I would. Can you say anything about the Union that might be a force for good?

The sheer taking advantages of scale is a force for good.

My explanation of the road maintenance was a classic example. But added to that, Scotland gets 90% of her imported goods via roads through England. Since England will need to maintain her roads that go to Scotland for Scotlands benefit then I can see toll charges being levied for transport northwards.

Here is a double whammie, we have to pay an extra premium for maintaining our own roads due to our lower population per miles of road network but also Scottish road haulers and other drivers will have to pay toll charges to maintain English roads.

All this extra expense will cause the cost of living in Scotland disproportionately to be more expensive for us than the rest of the UK as charges get passed onto Scottish consumers.

It is just the mathematics of it all and I don't argue with numbers.

In the end, relationships between Scotland and England will suffer because accusations of strangling the Scottish economy will be made at westminster and I can't sit here and let the world become a more disharmoniuos place.

[Oddquine]

Sorry Squidge, maybe deluded was too strong a word. Maybe I'm wrong here but I have to bring class into it. My perception for a long time has been the independence movement appears to have been led by the middle class, they I think the fear is if it all goes wrong, that the ones who will suffer most is those who can least afford to lose what little cash they have, that services they depend on will be cut, hospital treatment will be harder to get due to less doctors and nurses to treat them, council services will be cut to the bone, all the while their taxes will go up.At the moment the working class are more worried about having to pay bills, or worse, trying to find work, than to spend any length of time thinking about what Salmond and his ilk want, and I believe that's the hardest thing the SNP has to overcome, the apathy and cynicism of working class people. I'm not suggesting the working class are uneducated and don't understand what's happening, they understand fully what's happening in Scotland just now. I think the fear is if it all goes wrong, that the ones who will suffer most is those who can least afford to lose what little cash they have, that services they depend on will be cut, hospital treatment will be harder to get due to less doctors and nurses to treat them, council services will be cut to the bone, all the while their taxes will go up. I don't trust Salmond, the man has too big an ego, and for too long he's been a wee fish in a big pond, now he wants to be the big fish in a wee pond, even if that means Scotland paying the price for his vanity.

If you are going to believe Polls.....and some on here do.......the same poll cited to prove the Olympics made everybody all over the UK more British, and also used to claim that the cracks in the Independence movement were beginning to show , funnily enough also shows that more of the "working class" are for independence than among the "middle classes". Could that be because the "middle classes" are looking out for Number one and not considering the overall good of the Scottish population?

The apathy and cynicism is coming less from the C2DE grouping than the ABC1. So using your wording, but applying it where it appears actually to belong, if you believe polls, (with appropriate adjustments to the wording to reflect my perception of reality (bolded), as opposed to yours)....... I think the fear is if it all goes wrong, that the ones who will suffer most are those who have some cash saved and think they might have to lose some of it, that services they abuse by paying private companies to leech off NHS facilities, for elective surgeries, to the detriment of joe punter just trying to stay alive will be cut, hospital treatment will be harder to get due to less doctors and nurses to treat them, but that will be well compensated by the increase in the income from their shares in the private companies making the PFI profits..whether through their pension provision or directly owning shares...(because was that not one of Thatcher's definitions of Middle Class...owning your own (council) house and shares)..enabling them to buy private health provision, council services will be cut to the bone, possibly denying them the access to what exactly? Most cuts in council services impact disproportionately on those who can't pay to replace them than on those who could, (if they gave up a gas-guzzling car or a foreign holiday a year), all the while their taxes will go up.

Sorry, joxville..but you sound more like one of the "I'm all right, Jack and I'm not about to risk changing that" brigade than anyone who gives a toss about anything other than what you, personally, will get out of it. You don't have to bring class into it..because class has sod all to do with it...class has sod all to do with anything in the 21st Century. The only people who think having money/property/shares/ a white collar job etc makes them better in their own mind than anybody who doesn't have money/property/shares/ a white collar job etc are those with money/property/shares/ a white collar job etc...or people who wish to divide and conquer. I have had all of those in my time, bar the shares.......and never felt that I was any different to anybody else who had less or had more. I wouldn't bow to the Queen any more than I'd spit on a homeless person because they were better or lesser than I am.

Class is not a problem or a definition to those of us who don't give a toss as to the inflated perceptions individuals ...and groups have of themselves. Being "middle class" in your own mind doesn't imply intelligence, perception,.....or the courage to embrace change without guarantees that you won't lose anything....while it seems being "working class" in the minds of the "middle class" does, going by your post, imply lacking intelligence and perception..but funnily enough, it does not seem to mean that they lack the courage to embrace change without guarantees that they won't lose anything....though that is maybe because they are already going to lose so much by remaining in the Union, while the "middle classes" are not..and the absolute certainty of a crap future for the under 25s, the disabled etc is not as appealing as the possibility of a not quite so crap future in an Independent Scotland.

I'm a pensioner in the UK........I'm just very marginally above the maximum no perk threshold because I do have a small works pension, but a less than full Statutory one...but am still one of the protected UK species (because there are a lot of us to vote for those we believe protect us, maybe?) And I manage to do all I want to do on my income....though I have never expected to live in the same lifestyle as I had when I was working and earning a wage.....so I don't eternally carp about lack of holidays,the cost of running a car, the inability to sit in a hothouse in a tee shirt, or quaff bottles of wine when the mood takes, for example. I'm happy enough being able to support the charities etc I think deserve my support and am not overly bothered that I have to pay almost all I get above the maximum allowable pensioner income on Council Tax and and Housing Rent. I don't think I am owed any more than an income on which I can live comfortably.....but it appears "comfortably" is expectation defined on what you have been used to rather than what you need.

However, given that the one group most against Independence in any poll I have seen, are my age group, I think I may be in the minority there. That is, to an extent why I believe that 16/17 year olds should have the vote, because why should the likes of me, nearing the end of my life, be in a position to dictate their future to those who will have to live their longer lives in that future because we may just possibly be a shade worse off in our much shorter term?

Are you are basically saying that we have finally entered an era of "the UK dream" aping that of America, where the possession of money and property is God, and you just don't vote for anything which just maybe. possibly reduce your own personal income and possessions, even though it might help those who are being shat upon from a great height?

What is important is what we think of the abilities of Scotland...the people, the Governments, of whatever colour or political view, working solely for Scottish interests, the businesses etc without nanny UK dictating what we can do, how much we can spend and on what...that we think of Scotland without the centuries old cringe factor, the "we know what the Union gives us so why give up certainty for uncertainty" (even though the UK has no clue as to what the UK is going to be like tomorrow..and is that not uncertainty?) Union security blanket option.

What is important is that we look at the UK, as it has been for the last forty or so years....and think."is this how we want to live for the rest of our time on this earth, being controlled by right wing governments we did not vote for imposing policies on us we don't like, being drawn into wars which have all to do with the UK as a whole, far less us as Scotland, being obliged to harbour nuclear weapons we don't want, just because the UK needs them to punch above their weight in the world but can't find anywhere else to put them which is cheaper to set up, easier to maintain..and will kill proportionately less Scots than any other UK citizens if things get nasty, because there are less of us. Much the same reason as Dounreay got the five nuclear reactor trials in the 1950s...because any problems found causing accidents would trash less Scots than if it was put anywhere else in the UK.......and no matter that Caithness with its small population is, for generations, going to reap the benefits of the contamination introduced by the facilities, long after they have been closed down and cease to provide any benefit re jobs to the local community.

Could Scotland as an independent country treat us any worse than the UK already does? Really?

[Oddquine]

The sheer taking advantages of scale is a force for good.

My explanation of the road maintenance was a classic example. But added to that, Scotland gets 90% of her imported goods via roads through England. Since England will need to maintain her roads that go to Scotland for Scotlands benefit then I can see toll charges being levied for transport northwards.

Here is a double whammie, we have to pay an extra premium for maintaining our own roads due to our lower population per miles of road network but also Scottish road haulers and other drivers will have to pay toll charges to maintain English roads.

All this extra expense will cause the cost of living in Scotland disproportionately to be more expensive for us than the rest of the UK as charges get passed onto Scottish consumers.

It is just the mathematics of it all and I don't argue with numbers.

In the end, relationships between Scotland and England will suffer because accusations of strangling the Scottish economy will be made at westminster and I can't sit here and let the world become a more disharmoniuos place.

Thing is, Rheghead.....an Independent Scotland doesn't need to end up with England forbidding the use of her roads, or allowing them to get potholed into uselessness....unless England is into spitting out her dummy.

Norway has in their time, removed from a Union with both Sweden and Denmark on different occasions.but they can still all drive on all the roads in all three Scandinavian countries. Most of Europe has a toll system, as those who holiday in Europe already know....what is the problem with the same reciprocal system (as in not just England benefiting unless they never want to export anything to us) in Great Britain, the land mass........or are you also saying that all traffic will forever be one way? Scotland could also get the proportion of her imports which are not directly produced and delivered directly from English soil via her ports....couldn't she? Scotland used to do that at one time..before the Union.

Look, Rheghead, at which stage are you going to accept that Scotland's road are crap because we have had 293 years of the Union building/maintaining them (or rather not building/maintaining them) and only 12 of a Scottish Government, (with a restricted income for undertaking capital projects) able to start doing something about it. We have managed with crap roads for three centuries.....as have English hauliers driving up and down using them....so why would this all of a sudden change on Independence?

Why, with no Scottish MPs at Westminster, would there be any accusations of strangling the Scottish economy . Can't see anybody in the rUK Parliament giving a toss, as long as their own economy isn't strangled. Even with Scottish MPs in Westminster, Scotland is completely ignored unless the SNP is doing well........it has always been thus, has it not?

Could our world, as in that within the UK, possibly become more disharmonious? Really? I don't really see how you are going to stop the disharmony, tbh...unless you are David Cameron in disguise and are prepared to look seriously at Devo-Max. (Not convinced that even that will sort stuff out permanently, but I'm sure it would for a generation or so.)

[Kenn]

Sorry squidge but if you think that the health service will improve under an independent government then think again.
I have recently had need to contact NHS and was told in no uncertain terms that as I live in a sparsely populated area then I should not expect and would not get the same level of care.
I have been trying for eight months now to get answers to some questions about how monies are spent within the service, I have an SNP MSP and Holyrood has an SNP majority, to date neither has furnished me with the required information which does not inspire any sort of confidence.
Both hospitals within the county are constantly under review with a view to closure, the provision of GP care is now falling well below what is required, maternity services seem to be centered on Raigmore with little of no thought for the expectant mother, my neighbour was recently sent to Leeds for an operation as there was no one at the time able to perform a complex surgery north of the border despite his having been advised that it would be done in Glasgow and he and his wife getting as far as Pitlochry only to be advised it had been cancelled and to go home!
Now if any one can explain how things will get better, I will listen to their argument with great interest.

[squidge]

Lizz I too needed specialist treatment whilst living in Caithness and had to be flown south by air ambulance for treatment which saved my life. The thing is that when we decided to move to Caithness we did it in full knowledge that we could not expect the same level of care as we would have living in Manchester or Aberdeen but that where we needed treatment we would get it but that it might be far away from where we lived. I do not have an issue with that. I do however agree that GP care should be the same and I am unclear what the issues are that prevents that being the case in Caithness. Maternity Services are an ongoing issue and Caithness MUST not lose the services it has but the staffing issue is a hard nut to crack. Attracting Drs and nurses and specialists to rural areas is going to be difficult but there may be some way resolving this in a similar way as they have done with teachers - if a newly qualified science teacher says they will do their probationary year anywhere then they can get a significant payment during this probationary year.

As for how money is spent well it baffles me too. However what I do know is that the money comes from the UK government as part of the block grant that Scotland receives. And that is ALL we have to spend. That money is reducing and as the deficit reduction plans tighten and tighten this money will be less and less. The Scottish Government budget is set by Westminster. It is fixed, just like our salaries every month, and has been decreasing steadily in real terms over the last few years. On top of that came a big cut from the Tories when they got into power. The NHS Scotland budget is paid wholly from the SG budget. Less money in = less money out. This is not a party issue it is a government issue.

As for the SNP Lizz - if you dont think they are doing a good enough job with the NHS then you need to vote for someone else - but the labour party's record on the NHS is not great and the torys will just introduce the health reforms in Scotland. That may be what you want but it isnt for me. After a yes vote - the political landscape will have to change and all the parties will readjust and develop new policies and you can have input and lobby on those policies as much or as little as you want - from posting on here or on facebook, or writing about your views, to standing for parliament in an Independent Scotland.

How will things get better under Independence.... Well firstly we will have the freedom to spend money collected in Scotland on scottish priorities - ALL the money - not simply the money given to us by the westminster government. We will have our own borrowing capability and we will have the freedom ( and I use that word wisely lol ) to completely change the way the NHS is funded, run and managed if that is what the electorate want. Its not going to change the day after independence but we have the opportunity to do things differently. We can start something which might indeed take several years to complete but we can do it with OUR money by voting for OUR government. Currently all the UK parties just fiddle around the edges but we have the chance to do something different and to vote for parties which offer something different. WE have NO chance to do that under the arrangement just now - firstly there is no political will - whilst health is a devolved responsibility there is no opportunity for Scotland to do something different as part of the union and there is not enough money to do something different whilst the money is given to Scotland by the UK.

The argument for Independence for me is about having that chance to change things in a way we dont have within the union. Its about being in control of our own finances and our own priorities and being able to elect a government which is voted for by the majority of people voting in Scotland and therefore reflects the priorities we have in Scotland. Because an Independent Scotland would have these things then we would have an opportunity to do things differently. It is the best chance we have because there is NO chance that a UK government would give us that opportunity.

[maverick]

I was born in Scotland, I am proud to call myself a Scotsman.
I was also born In the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and I served in the armed forces of that nation, I swore an oath to her Britannic Majesty Queen Elizabeth 2nd.
I have a birth right to call myself British as has every man, woman and child born in this country, that's every person born in Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales.
So what right does Alex Salmond and his SNP party have to take the birth right from every person born in the UK, because without Scotland there is no Britain and therefore there cannot be any British people. When we went to war with Argentina over the Falklands we didn't go as a coalition with any other country, we stood alone as a British armed force.
Even if an Independence vote was to succeed why should I have to surrender my British citizenship, something I feel is my right by birth?..

[changilass]

I have a birth right to call myself British as has every man, woman and child born in this country, that's every person born in Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales.

You left me out . and thousands of others who were born abroad to working service members.

[maverick]

You left me out . and thousands of others who were born abroad to working service members.

Lucky you you are entitled to duel nationality, but Eck Salmond can only take one away from you.

[Rheghead]

Thing is, Rheghead.....an Independent Scotland doesn't need to end up with England forbidding the use of her roads, or allowing them to get potholed into uselessness....unless England is into spitting out her dummy.

Norway has in their time, removed from a Union with both Sweden and Denmark on different occasions.but they can still all drive on all the roads in all three Scandinavian countries. Most of Europe has a toll system, as those who holiday in Europe already know....what is the problem with the same reciprocal system (as in not just England benefiting unless they never want to export anything to us) in Great Britain, the land mass........or are you also saying that all traffic will forever be one way? Scotland could also get the proportion of her imports which are not directly produced and delivered directly from English soil via her ports....couldn't she? Scotland used to do that at one time..before the Union.

Look, Rheghead, at which stage are you going to accept that Scotland's road are crap because we have had 293 years of the Union building/maintaining them (or rather not building/maintaining them) and only 12 of a Scottish Government, (with a restricted income for undertaking capital projects) able to start doing something about it. We have managed with crap roads for three centuries.....as have English hauliers driving up and down using them....so why would this all of a sudden change on Independence?

Why, with no Scottish MPs at Westminster, would there be any accusations of strangling the Scottish economy . Can't see anybody in the rUK Parliament giving a toss, as long as their own economy isn't strangled. Even with Scottish MPs in Westminster, Scotland is completely ignored unless the SNP is doing well........it has always been thus, has it not?

Could our world, as in that within the UK, possibly become more disharmonious? Really? I don't really see how you are going to stop the disharmony, tbh...unless you are David Cameron in disguise and are prepared to look seriously at Devo-Max. (Not convinced that even that will sort stuff out permanently, but I'm sure it would for a generation or so.)

Look I'm tired of your long winding woolly answers that never seem to say anything. I gave you specific issues to dwell upon and you just airbrushed over the whole thing.

You said you had your reasons for finding the Union objectionable. I can understand that, I knew a chap whose son was killed in action and he blamed the British Government etc for the death of his son and the only way he could go on in life was to support Scottish independence to 'get back' at old Blighty. But the fact is, the British stand up to bullies who may come knocking on your door some time.

[joxville]

Oddquine, can I just say that I'm not, and never have been, one of those 'I'm alright Jack' persons. I'm just an ordinary working class guy, I don't have shares or major savings, nor do I own a home, and given my age, (47), I'm unlikely to ever get a mortgage. With the exception of a couple of times, I've voted Labour all my life, the other twice I voted for Robert McLennan during the 11 years I lived in Caithness. I'll NEVER vote Tory, especially after the way they treated Scotland when Thatcher came to power. I believe in helping those less fortunate than myself, especially as I've always felt Governments run the country to suit the well off; and I have a few pounds deducted from my wages each month to donate to two charities.

My quandary is that I've always believed that Scotland should be independent, that we should be free to run our own country without interference from England. But given the state of the economy now, will Scotland really be able to stand on her own two feet. Is it playing in to the English hands for us to get independence, that they'll be free of the 'whinging Jocks' as some of my English colleagues love to annoy me with? The English seem to think they'll be better off financially without Scotland getting subsidies, an issue which I'm totally confused about, depending on which politician is speaking, some say Scotland doesn't get back what it pays in, others say we get more. What I'd really like is for Salmond or some other politician to stand up and tell the truth, lay it on the line what the real financial implications are, how our essential services will still be fully supported, and that yes, that Scotland will have a bad few years to begin with, but it can and will have a better and stronger economy without English shackles. Treat us with the respect we deserve, after all, we're the ones voting with our futures at stake.