war on iraq

[JAWS]

I try to discount nothing, including the parts of reports which are edited out as inconvenient.

As for UNICEF, I also bear in mind the usual problem , that whilst any such organisations serve a useful purpose they do tend to be self perpetuating. The are there to help solve a problem and as such need a problem to solve to justify their existence. And that is not a problem confined to UNICEF.

What tends to be forgotten when it comes to the UN is that it is not an Organisation which lives in a Utopian Vacuum it is as "politically" motivated as any single Government or State. The UN also will pick and choose what is best for it's image and will get it the most favourable publicity. It is a talking shop which only as as much power as people decide to give it, it has none of it's own. It is not a World Government, neither is it an infallible judge of right or wrong and has a long and disgraceful tradition of ignoring problems which are to "difficult" or to politically sensitive.

It carefully avoids interfering with nations who will retaliate by completely ignoring and who will present a united front against it. How many Humanitarian Problems in the World and “Wars” of various descriptions does it ignore until there is some “Reflected Glory” for it in “Solving” a problem where there is only one obvious solution or whilst the World’s Media are showing a great interest.
The current situation in Sudan is far worse than that in Iraq but how much “Hand-Wringing” and “Weeping and Wailing” is being created over that. How much fuss is the UN making over the situation in Indonesia and Timor. What is the UN doing to stop the decades old War in Central Africa other than treating it as a series of “Minor” Wars of little consequence. The slaughter and atrocities, the constant Human Rights Violations, the constant slaughter of “Innocent Civilians” is ignored almost completely and with far more disastrous results to babies and th3e general population in general. And why? Because there is no constant Media coverage, no “Hand Wringing” by Charities hoping to use it to get donations. There’s no “Glory” to be had there, there’s no “Conscious Pricking Publicity” which can be utilised and besides that “It’s dangerous and not easily solved” so stick it in the “To Hard To Do” File and ignore it.

Like any other Organisation, The UN and it’s various Organisations will only do what is in it’s own interests as a unit and where there might be some “Good Publicity” in the outcome. It has no more and no less self interest than any other Organisation. It sees what it wants to see, hears what it wants to hear and ignores what it finds might show it for what it is a totally Useless Nonentity!

[jjc]

Have you been to Iraq this year, Jaws? Did you walk the streets of Fallujah at any time this month?

I ask because you seem to be universally dismissing any and all reports into the situation there (with the exception, perhaps, of those from the government that your signature claims you 'fear') on the grounds that they are from a third party.

Who do you trust to give you your reports? How will you recognise the truth when you see it? Will it be the report that agrees with you, or do you have some special formula?

Let me know when you've chosen your cave, won't you?

[JAWS]

Jjc, “How about Medact?” Keep producing the figures, they make interesting reading.

So the “Weeping and Wailing” over the “Poor Starving Babies” and the “Lack of Medical Supplies” as a result of the Sanctions imposed on Iraq were a complete fiction? Things were supposed to be as bad as they could get and if Sanctions were not lifted there would be dead babies all over the place for want of food and medical supplies!

Now I’m told to ignore that because things are much worse now? But before that they couldn’t get much worse? Which bit of “Much Worse” do you want me to believe, the original “Much Worse” or the present “Much Worse”?

Why are the Food Charities and the UN Agencies and the EU not hammering at the door with Food Aid for the Iraqis? Or is sulking and posturing more important? Perhaps if they stopped making excuses for the sake of short term Political Expediency things would be a lot easier for the innocent Iraqis. Of course, having “Malnourished Babies” around helps them wag their fingers and say “I told you so!”

If I sit with a house full of food whilst complaining that my neighbours children are starving then it says as much about me as it does about how my neighbours children got in that situation. And no amount of my finger wagging about my neighbours family not doing anything would absolve me from not having done anything!

When the finger-waggers stop their silly “Holier than Thou” posturing and get on with doing something to help then I will be a lot more sympathetic to their moralising. If they are so concerned why are they not help solve the problem themselves?
Or is leaving “chronically malnourished” children without food more convenient for their position?

Whilst they have every right to refuse to send Military Aid, and I respect their right to refuse to do that, does that give them the “moral right” not to send Humanitarian Aid for children. If they had ship loads of food which they were being prevented from landing then I would have more sympathy.
And the pathetic excuse that “It makes it look like we are backing the Americans” is just so much Hogwash to excuse their political posturing! It holds no more validity than me saying “I can’t help feed my neighbours children because people may think I am supporting the behaviour of my neighbours family!”

Who was it who said, “One death is a tragedy, a million deaths are just a statistic!” ?
Keep producing the statistics and eventually I might know which to believe!

jjc, there are many places I have not been and many that I have and I am well aware that "public perception" can be manipulated by the media. I also know the trick of presenting a "fair and balanced" report which leaves people with only the desired message.
What are the producers of these statistics suggesting as a solution? Once I am told that then I will perhaps, understand their motives.

[jjc]

So the “Weeping and Wailing” over the “Poor Starving Babies” and the “Lack of Medical Supplies” as a result of the Sanctions imposed on Iraq were a complete fiction? Things were supposed to be as bad as they could get and if Sanctions were not lifted there would be dead babies all over the place for want of food and medical supplies!

Now I’m told to ignore that because things are much worse now? But before that they couldn’t get much worse? Which bit of “Much Worse” do you want me to believe, the original “Much Worse” or the present “Much Worse”?

You seem to be attributing random quotes to, well, me. Why?

Aside from that your logic is… shall we say impaired? There is no earthly reason, other than your refusal to accept that anything bad might be happening in Iraq now that we've liberated it, why comparing the situation under sanctions and the situation under occupation is an either/or scenario. It is entirely possible that the conditions under sanctions were bad but now, for some, the conditions have deteriorated even further.

Why are the Food Charities and the UN Agencies and the EU not hammering at the door with Food Aid for the Iraqis?

I'm sorry, but what makes you think that they aren't? One in four Iraqis is living on aid. Where do you suppose that aid is coming from?

Of course, having “Malnourished Babies” around helps them wag their fingers and say “I told you so!”

Again, I'm sorry, but it almost sounds as if you are accusing the aid agencies of denying food to children as part of an organised publicity campaign. Would that be an accurate description of your position? Perhaps you could name an organisation that you believe is doing this?

Or is leaving “chronically malnourished” children without food more convenient for their position?

Same question as above.

And the pathetic excuse that “It makes it look like we are backing the Americans” is just so much Hogwash to excuse their political posturing!

Once again you've failed to attribute your quote. Who said that they were refusing aid to Iraq because they didn't want to appear to be backing the US?

What are the producers of these statistics suggesting as a solution? Once I am told that then I will perhaps, understand their motives.

Oh, I see. I assumed that you'd read the Medact report (including the page of recommendations) before dismissing it. How foolish of me…

[RandomHero]

racist? i'm not a racist. i don't follow what george bush says. i follow what i know and believ to be correct. i think you're taking things too seriously godfather, learn to laugh about everything. it's the only time war/racism/anything is enjoyable.

[The Godfather]

Fit are ye sleverin now, war is enjoyable?

[RandomHero]

funny things happen at war. funny things go on all the time. i think you should learn to laugh. people discourage from laughing at war/racism/such like because 'it's not right'. why? there are absolutly hilarious jokes about racism (about whites aswell believe it or not) and there are funny stories about things that go on at war. it makes everything so much easier.

laugh. then the rest will follow.

[JAWS]

Sorry jjc, the quotes were not intended to be attributed to you but to those who were describing that as the situation which the UN Sanctions were alleged to be creating in Iraq despite the fact that it seemed to be well known where the money which was supposed to feed the Iraqis was going. A fact that was conveniently ignored.

I am not refusing to accept that "accept that anything bad might be happening in Iraq " (I am quoting you on this occasion) but that sections of the Visual Media have a tendency only to show scenes of "atrocities" committed by the side which is willing to encourage their presence. I have yet to hear of any of the Insurgents allowing the media the same option and I am sure there are plenty of journalists from Countries they can trust who would be willing to accompany them.

There are no doubts that some Countries are quite willing to avoid sending any sort of aid to Iraq and have quite openly said so! ( If you want names, France and Germany to name but two who have made no secret of the fact that their refusal to do anything except finger war was with that intention, work out who the others are yourself by there conspicuous absence in Iraq but not the former Yugoslavia, especially where airports are concerned.) What I am saying about certain Charities is that they are rather like the muck cart following the procession and are quite willing to make very loud noises in some places whilst only whispering in others where there is less media attention and less public interest.

I don’t recall dismissing the Medact report merely questioning what it recommended and similarly with others producing such reports. You are quoting parts of them so I assume you have studied them and would therefore also be aware of any conclusions drawn. It was your wish to quote sections of them not mine. The quotes I have made reference to are not verbatim except where they are obvious quotes or are attributed to a particular source but a general impression given and regularly used phrases by widely reported subjects.

With respect to the UN and their high moral stance I remember UN Troops standing by whilst a village full of civilians in a supposed UN Safe Haven was shelled almost out of existence and the males taken off for Ethnic Cleansing using the excuse that their mandate didn’t permit their interference and the UN being satisfied with that happening. I remember a report showing a Rwandan male pleading with a Rwandan soldier to shoot him rather than wait until a mob found him and hacked him to death with machetes in the Genocide which was obviously being carried out quite openly. UN response? Absolutely nothing! Excuse! It’s not in out mandate to intervene.

Once again, if I were to stand and watch whilst my neighbour beat his wife to death because nobody gave me permission to intervene I think I would be quite rightly looked on with some contempt by decent society. The UN did exactly that whilst it was going on in full view of the world countless thousands of times and carefully averted their eyes. Now, the Secretary General has the audacity to say that perhaps they should have taken some action. A little bit late I would have thought!

The Aid Agencies? Well something has just been revived after twenty years to remind the world that whilst tens of thousands died of starvation both they and the world leaders did practically nothing to help until a fairly second rate singer took it upon himself to have the nerve to harangue them and embarrass them into taking some action. Remember Eritrea and Tigre and the famine in Ethiopia?
If I remember correctly, the situation there was outside the UN’s Charter. It comes in very handy when you don’t want to be bothered with something other than make noises!

As far as the UN and the Aid Agencies are concerned it would appear that All Humanitarian Disasters Are Equal, but Some Are More Equal than Others! This way with the Cameras please!

And jjc, don’t waste you time with sarcasm, it’s like water of a ducks back.
When it comes to sarcasm, insults, abuse and excuses I’m afraid I’ve heard them all.
Occasionally I hear a new one, about once every five years or so, but for the most part they mean no more than getting wet when it rains. In fact I find encouraging them can be quite enjoyable so don’t be put off if you wish to continue.
On second thoughts I think you ought to continue, it might provide some entertainment for others and lighten things up a little. Heaven only knows, the subject could do with a little amusement thrown in it’s dull enough as it is.
Does anybody know any good jokes?

[RandomHero]

This penguin was having car problems, so he pulled his car into the garage for a check-up. The mechanic points at the restaurant across the street and says, "Go over there and get a bite to eat, and I'll take a look." The penguin does exactly as he says.

After a while he waddles back, and the mechanic is looking under the hood. The penguin asks him if he's been able to figure out what went wrong. The mechanic glances over his shoulder and says, "It looks like you blew a seal."

The penguin quickly wipes his mouth and says, "Oh, no, no --That's just tartar sauce."

[Rheghead]

What was the problem? piston broke?

Yes, the penguin had spent his money on drink and couldn't afford the repairs!

[JAWS]

OK, for those who really do take the World seriously I offer the following.:-

Food Shortages!

“A million Iraqis every day open a can of beans and say – One for you and One for you!”

It’s all about Oil!

“Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb, Esso Blue” (For those to young to remember, A very old paraffin advert)

“I’ve got a Tiger in my Tank!” (Petrol advert)

Collateral Damage!

“Baby Baby can I hear a heart beat?”

“Wide eyed and leg-less!”

“Buddy can you spare a mine?”

“Good-night Ladies, see you at the Mourning!”

“You put your left leg in, you take your left leg out!”

“Heartbeat! What do you do when that bomber misses me?”

“Which idiot didn’t teach him the difference between Swallow and Duck?”

“Did nobody tell them the Red Cross was not a target?”

“And it’s One Two Three what are we Waiting Four? You know I don’t give a damn, the next stop is …… ? Baghdad? That’s no good! Get a new song!!

Controversial? I can’t even spell it!

[Rheghead]

Jaws
You forgot to mention,

'My roadside bomb doesn't lose its shrapnel by the lampost overnight'

I heard it was No.1 in the Iraqi 'Hit' Parade for several weeks!