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View Poll Results: Should puppy sales be banned again?

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  • Yes.

    27 30.34%
  • No.

    52 58.43%
  • Maybe.

    8 8.99%
  • I don't know.

    2 2.25%
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Thread: Puppy sales on .org

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by GetWithTheTimes View Post
    and everyone greeting about the dogs going to shelters and blaming the breeders here's a thought!!!

    try lecturing the people that take on the puppies and don't train them and put them in the shelter in the first place, breeders wouldn't breed the dogs if they couldn't give them homes and its not their fault that the new owners give them up, try having a go at the irresponsible owners that get bored and give the dogs up or impulse buy a dog then realize that they cant cope and give them up

    and having a go at crustyroll for being a loving caring breeder who clearly loves the dogs he/she breeds and wouldn't see them go to harm just shows how low a lot of the people will stoop on this site just to have an argument i for one hope the narrow minded argument seekers on this site don't get to breed and make more annoying argumentative brats to grow up and turn out like them, you can be assured if you could sell their offspring they would be running at a loss and they would all be in the childrens shelter for sure and nobody would rescue them lol
    Once again your ignorance shines through. I think crusty is a lovely person i really do and i think she loves her dogs more than anyone can say however the breed guidelines are there for a reason! Not just pick a number out of thin air.

    Yes there is a lot to be said for good training and the job of the breeder is to give their pup to someone they believe wil look after them and train them. Unfortunately peoples circumstances do change thats just life and noone can forsee what lies ahead. Seeing the dam can give prospective owners an idea of how large etc the pup will become and if a breeder is doing their job correctly the family the pup goes to will be more than prepared for when the little cute pup grows into the real thing.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by caithgal View Post
    There are also GOOD breeders who breed to get their line back to the correct standard and to AVOID health issues however i guess you just cannot see that. No health issue or behaviour issue can be avoided completely however by breeding correctly you can begin to eliminate issues
    That is why I'm breeding from my bitch with a 'slightly' higher hipscore than the breed 'AVERAGE', remember it's just an average, it's not a line that musn't be crossed. The whole point of her breeding is to keep the standard and conformation and the Labrador features. Why throw all that away and breed to a dog that has a score lower than the average and loose some of the features that make it a Lab. I wouldn't have bred from her if her breeder and the stud dog owner (both who have many more years of experience than the rest of us) didn't think she was worth it or it would be detrimental to her line. There are no guarantees and you can have a dog with a low hipscore have problems in later life, my girl has had no problems what so ever and neither did my other girl with a higher score. I've sent off the DNA swabs of my other Labs to the Animal Health Trust as they are taking part in the survey they are doing to try and find the gene to blood test for HD rather than having to x-ray them. It isn't an exact science and just because there is a number it doesn't mean that some dogs should be ruled out from breeding. Experience must come into it and I'm listening to those that have it.

    I'll also add that I haven't made a penny from this breeding. You could say I've made some money in that I now have a bitch for myself whom I could possibly breed from later on. My vet bill was over £400, stud fee was £500, petrol to stud dog was £100. I haven't even added up what it has cost to have the washing machine on every day for vet bed and dogs bedding, the extra feeding of the bitch and the puppies, what is the point as I'm not interested in what I've spent or what I'm gaining financially, it's never been about that. Most breeders sell their pups for at the least the price of the stud fee but I'm not, one, because not everyone that can give a dog a fantastic home can afford some of the prices that the pups are selling for (check out www.champdogs.co.uk) and two, it's a market and if all the prices rise, its going to keep rising and I don't want that either. I know I've got really good quality puppies and I would not sell them for less, they are worth every penny.
    Last edited by crustyroll; 22-Jul-11 at 11:51.
    "I ask forgiveness continuously for I know he knows, somethings just have to be experienced"

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by crustyroll View Post
    That is why I'm breeding from my bitch with a 'slightly' higher hipscore than the breed 'AVERAGE', remember it's just an average, it's not a line that musn't be crossed. The whole point of her breeding is to keep the standard and conformation and the Labrador features. Why throw all that away and breed to a dog that has a score lower than the average and loose some of the features that make it a Lab. I wouldn't have bred from her if her breeder and the stud dog owner (both who have many more years of experience than the rest of us) didn't think she was worth it or it would be detrimental to her line. There are no guarantees and you can have a dog with a low hipscore have problems in later life, my girl has had no problems what so ever and neither did my other girl with a higher score. I've sent off the DNA swabs of my other Labs to the Animal Health Trust as they are taking part in the survey they are doing to try and find the gene to blood test for HD rather than having to x-ray them. It isn't an exact science and just because there is a number it doesn't mean that some dogs should be ruled out from breeding. Experience must come into it and I'm listening to those that have it.
    Not knowing much about Labs i will take your word for that. It is great that you are doing this and are obviously well involved and informed. for the record crusty i wasnt slagging you off its just the information i was given by many professionals and well educated breeders

  4. #64
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    You cant expect the breeder to take responsibility for the people who took the pup putting it into a shelter, or blame them because they bred their dogs for puppies, just because the family taking the pup is a nice family and seem loving doesn't mean that the pup is going to be happy there and all will be fine, 3 people i know of have recently given up dogs because they had kids 1 who got the puppy when they were pregnant then gave it up when the kid was born, all of them could of kept their dogs but it was easier to just get rid, they are the reason the shelters are full and people who just take on the puppies and don't want them when they aren't so cute anymore and need more exercise. Appearances and impressions can be deceptive you cant expect a breeder to know that the new owner is going to keep the dog for life and look after it well, and peoples circumstances do change but people are all too quick to just give up the dog than make it work, people use change of circumstance as an excuse to get rid of a dog all too often.

    i could go from plenty money to little money or from the country to the city or long hours to little hours it doesn't matter i wouldn't give up my dog unless it was impossible for me to keep him and maybe if more dog owners cared as much about their pets then their wouldn't be so many in shelters

    and maybe if the vets wouldn't charge outrageous prices for even the littlest of things more people would do health checks etc... try pointing the finger in their direction also as they are charging ridiculous amounts of money for treatments
    Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

  5. #65
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    And your argument with me is what???? Folk try to do their best but sometimes it doesnt work out that way. Yes the vets could decrease their fees but at the end of the day any responsible person who wants a dog should do their homework first.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by GetWithTheTimes View Post
    try lecturing the people that take on the puppies and don't train them and put them in the shelter in the first place, breeders wouldn't breed the dogs if they couldn't give them homes and its not their fault that the new owners give them up, try having a go at the irresponsible owners that get bored and give the dogs up or impulse buy a dog then realize that they cant cope and give them up
    As has been said before here, a good reputable breeder will always take back a dog he/she has bred if the new owner can't keep it for any reason. But there are too many irresponsible back yard breeders in it for money who take no interest in the future of the pups they breed. However, at least when you get a dog from a good rescue you know the adopters will have been screened and homechecked, and the dog matched to the lifestyle of the adopters. Rescues also take into account many other factors, e.g., breed experience. Irresponsible breeders take none of this into account when placing a dog.

    It should also be remembered that dogs are placed in rescue for many good reasons as well as the fed-up-with-the-dog scenario. A relationship split or change in the owner's lifestyle may mean the dog is no longer getting enough exercise or may be being left alone too long, for example, and they deem it kinder to rehome the dog to someone who can better fulfil its needs. The dog's owner may have died. The dog's owner, with the best will in the world, may have made a mistake and is seeking to rectify it. Lots of reasons, not all bad.

    So I think you're missing the point.
    Last edited by Tilter; 22-Jul-11 at 12:58. Reason: grammar

  7. #67

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    you see the problem with you people is you have no life -- on here moaning about people selling pups - my staffs are full blood but no papers , this isnt my fault they have no papers - its he way i bought them - what you all should really do is mind your own business - but thats hard for a wicker -- i wouldnt sell a pup to the wrong person incase they mistreat the animal -- yes i agree there are too many staffys with bad owners who throw them into homes when they cant handle what they have taken on , i have had staffs llmy life and nvr given away a dog because i cant be botherd with it -- and i certainly didnt let my dog get pregnant for the money -- my dog caught my girl staff in the last weekof her heat -- it was unintentional -- but to be honest -- i mite jst breed them to get right on your nerves - GET A LIFE -- i love my dogs and would never watch a staff or any other breed being mistreated --- people are scared of what they dont understand -- and if your a wicker , your in everyones business but your own

  8. #68
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    Oh well Suzy thats just a grand attitude just whats expected from you so no surprises there

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by caithgal View Post
    Yes the vets could decrease their fees but at the end of the day any responsible person who wants a dog should do their homework first.
    Vets do not work with large margins. The ordinary day to day stuff has to pay for the very expensive equipment demanded by pet owners for when things go wrong. And the equipment is very expensive not only to buy, but to maintain and there is no NHS to buy it for their use. We all expect it to be there when we need it.
    An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzywonton123 View Post
    and i certainly didnt let my dog get pregnant for the money -- my dog caught my girl staff in the last weekof her heat -- it was unintentional --
    Perhaps in that case you would consider neutering/spaying?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzywonton123 View Post
    and i certainly didnt let my dog get pregnant for the money -- my dog caught my girl staff in the last weekof her heat -- it was unintentional -- but to be honest -- i mite jst breed them to get right on your nerves -
    Gobsmacked.

  12. #72
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    Default A sensible way forward?

    I’m revisiting this thread because I voted for banning puppy sale ads in Stefan’s poll (and was in a minority). I really only see things from the rescue end and I think that makes me too quick to judge, and banning ads would penalise good breeders.

    So I’ve changed my mind BUT what I would like to see is the Org having a policy to allow puppy ads as long as breeders:
    (1) have carried out the recommended tests for hereditary defects and are prepared to make available to the buyer the parents’ hereditary screening certificates; and
    (2) state whether they will give back up advice and support for the lifetime of the pup and whether they will take back the pup if there is a problem.

    The Org wouldn’t have to do anything other than state their policy, obviously, but it would be seen to be promoting responsible dogbreeding, and would stop the irresponsible breeders peddling their wares (and there do seem to be some gobsmackingly irresponsible breeders on here).

    Would something along those lines keep everyone happy?

  13. #73
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    Crackeday for me my issue is the non health testing of the parents/pups! Ok it may have been an accident as they do happen. But retrospective testing can be done or having your bitch spayed prior to it especially if there is a male dog in the household would be the sensible thing to do. Like it or not there are proven facts that staffies are the most dog who ends up in kennels or worse so whilst i have issues with non testing thats not specifically in relation to staffies that applies to any breeder who intends/accidentally breeds puppies. In my own opinion its the least a breeder can do. A vet can always terminate puppies that are accidentally conceived although im not 100% sure on how far gone the bitch is to dictate whether or not this can be done so there really is no need for any unwanted/accidental pups in this day and age. Especially with the kennels burstin with staffies as it is.

    There are ALWAYS valid reasons for rehoming a dog and there is no reason at all why anyone on the org needs to divulge their personal circumstances. Im glad the org allows for this to happen

    A love of any breed shouldnt be the reason for breeding

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzywonton123 View Post
    i love my dogs and would never watch a staff or any other breed being mistreated --- people are scared of what they dont understand -- and if your a wicker , your in everyones business but your own
    I'm sorry but if you choose to breed without blood testing your staffs then you are mistreating the breed.

    http://www.aht.org.uk/genetics_l2hga.html

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by summer View Post
    I'm sorry but if you choose to breed without blood testing your staffs then you are mistreating the breed.

    http://www.aht.org.uk/genetics_l2hga.html
    Get what your saying summer but unfortunately this wonton stop this person from breeding. Here is the link to their last pup on caithness ads on FBhttp://www.facebook.com/?sk=app_2305272732#!/profile.php?id=1092145618&sk=wall

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetpea View Post
    Get what your saying summer but unfortunately this wonton stop this person from breeding. Here is the link to their last pup on caithness ads on FBhttp://www.facebook.com/?sk=app_2305272732#!/profile.php?id=1092145618&sk=wall
    As usual the org clique have spoken, do you get your kicks out of ganging up on people just because you disagree with their view point?
    You should be ashamed of yourselves, it is none of your or anybody elses business where or what they may sell and it proves you are "stalking" this orger.
    Playground tactics indeed.
    I only hope that you dont end up on the receiving end of this horrible type of behaviour.
    The world is a system its only how you work the sytem that counts...............

  17. #77

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    I havent read all the threads but I dont agree with anyone breeding and there should be a dog license for it, however banning it from the org is not going to stop people breeding for a 'quick buck'

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall Fernie View Post
    Puppy sales were banned due to the rules on business advertising at the time.

    As we could not distinguish private sellers from breeders we banned them all.

    When we decided to soften our rules on business advertising due to the downturn in the economy, we also softened our rules on puppy sales.
    As a Moderator of the Pets Forum I've moved this thread to Pets Corner so please don't blame the Admin.

  19. #79

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    Whilst I dont disagree with breeding, there should be more laws in place eg both parents should be health tested and puppies should not go to homes until they are 8 week etc. Personally I could never let my dog (who is KC registered with health tested parents) have puppies as I love her way to much to expose her to any of the risks that go with it. If you love your dog what benefit is it to her to have puppies? although on the other hand I am glad there are responsible breeders out there otherwise I wouldn't have my dog but its not something I would choose to do.

  20. #80
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    I've not voted on this Poll for obvious reasons.

    I disagreed with the Admin's original decision to ban puppy sales and welcomed the relaxation in the rules.

    I regret that decision in view of some recent posts. However I think to ban all puppy sales would drive the problem underground and lead to more puppies being abandoned - or even worse. As a animal lover that is my worst fear.

    I try to move all puppy sales from this forum to the Classified Section when and as I see them. I then lock the thread.

    You can help me by Reporting any threads I miss by pressing the Report button at the bottom of the post.

    Thank you.

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