What food do you feed your dog?

[Leanne]

If any research needs to be done, it should be done into the miraculous vitamin containing bones that BARF have discovered. (Clue: bones have no vitamin content. Meat is a poor vitamin source, limited to vit B's and vit K, and even then these are most significant in Liver and not meat per se) And yes, bones do contain minerals: mostly calcium and phosphate. The ratio in the bone is approximately 2:1 (Calcium:Phosphate). This is not the necessary dietary ratio for dogs, which should be approximately 1:1. So if the diet is bone rich ( as I have often seen in BARF diets, where it is so bone rich that the the feaces are impacted), then the dietary ratio of calcium/phosphate is wrong. So, in my opinion, the BARF "facts" you are quoting are wrong, so how reliable is the rest of it?

Julie - BARF isn't just about feeding bones and meat, it is also about feeding offal, veggies and some cereals too. The bones do contain vitamins and minerals other than calcium and phosphate - just in the marrow, rather than the bone itself. That is why, marrow rich bones are a better. In addition to this, if whole foods are given i.e. chicken wings without the skin stripped off, vitamin E should be supplemented as high fat content screws this up. I'm sure you knew this though

Edit - like us hoomans, the diet needs to be balanced.

[crustyroll]

The ratio in the bone is approximately 2:1 (Calcium:Phosphate). This is not the necessary dietary ratio for dogs, which should be approximately 1:1. So if the diet is bone rich ( as I have often seen in BARF diets, where it is so bone rich that the the feaces are impacted), then the dietary ratio of calcium/phosphate is wrong.

Who tells us that the ratio is incorrect for dogs?? I bet if you dig deep enough you'll find it's the pet food manufacturers that are quoting these figures as they have the funds to carry out the so called 'research' into it. Can you tell me what we fed dogs before Pedigree Chum and Burns existed? Do you think a dog in teh wild would go, um, no sorry there's too much bone in that meal, oops I'll have impacted feaces! They don't eat bone all the time, there must be meat as well and anyone that is feeding BARF correctly don't feed bone every day and this is how impacted feaces can result.

[Sarah]

Ours get Kildrummie Crunch and scraps - but I have to say in the shop we can get most dog food and the most popular without a shadow of a doubt is Burns Pet Nutrition - wet and dry -that's what I mostly keep in shop now - rest just deliver to order as we are having to take weekly orders from Burns now sometimes twice a week to satisfy demand - most people seem to believe in the wholesomeness of it and once they try it tend not to look back!

What is Kildrummie Crunch? I have never heard of it before.

[Leanne]

What is Kildrummie Crunch? I have never heard of it before.

It's a dry food I love - well not me personally. It has has your usual biscuits but also has charcoal nuggets (for smelly bums) and dried chicken pieces. My dogs go nuts for it It's only about £13 for 20kg too

[Fran]

I was very interested in reading about dog foods.
Maybe you can help me. I am looking for food which will fatten my dog. I feed him 4 tiuns of peigree chum or winalot casserole, and biscuits a day, and chicken , but he is rapidly loosing weight and his bones are sticking out. Vets cant find whats wrong with him.

[linnie612]

I fully intended to read this thread with interest until I realised it was about something called a BARF diet?! As far as I am aware, to 'barf' means 'to vomit'. Taken in this context, some of the posts are quite humourous, but my favourite has to be:-

[QUOTE We try to BARF as much as possible but with 4 dogs now it's difficult. We usually manage one or two days...We are going to be back on full BARF soon [/QUOTE]

[Aaldtimer]

I was very interested in reading about dog foods.
Maybe you can help me. I am looking for food which will fatten my dog. I feed him 4 tiuns of peigree chum or winalot casserole, and biscuits a day, and chicken , but he is rapidly loosing weight and his bones are sticking out. Vets cant find whats wrong with him.

My goodness Fran, 4 tins of dog food and extras per day, and the dog is still thin?
There must be something seriously wrong with the poor dog, and the Vets don't have a clue?

[KEEP_ON_TRUCKIN]

It's a dry food I love - well not me personally. It has has your usual biscuits but also has charcoal nuggets (for smelly bums) and dried chicken pieces. My dogs go nuts for it It's only about £13 for 20kg too

Hey Leanne- not sure what crunch you have but the bags of Kildrummie Country Crunch I sell and the bag i'm looking at right now doesn't match up to your description - is that the mix you're talking about? - the crunch is £11 a bag at Hilltop Horse in Country in Wick and has doesn't have charcoal nuggets. It's a bog standard cheap dog food made in Nairn - from past experience Geddes sell it too ?

[Leanne]

Hey Leanne- not sure what crunch you have but the bags of Kildrummie Country Crunch I sell and the bag i'm looking at right now doesn't match up to your description - is that the mix you're talking about? - the crunch is £11 a bag at Hilltop Horse in Country in Wick and has doesn't have charcoal nuggets. It's a bog standard cheap dog food made in Nairn - from past experience Geddes sell it too ?

I feed the one that they sell at Gillocks - nowhere else seems to sell it. It's in a see through bag so you can see all the different bits.

[porshiepoo]

I was very interested in reading about dog foods.
Maybe you can help me. I am looking for food which will fatten my dog. I feed him 4 tiuns of peigree chum or winalot casserole, and biscuits a day, and chicken , but he is rapidly loosing weight and his bones are sticking out. Vets cant find whats wrong with him.

Personally I would get him off the tinned food. It has nothing in it to sustain a dog as far as I'm concerned and when we used to feed it we had skinny dogs that had diarrhea constantly. Tinned food is simply rubbish and biscuit will have nothing in it either!
Try your dog on a complete food such as Pedigree and see how he goes. You can still give him the Chicken and treats if you want but I would try a complete food aimed at putting a bit of weight on then once he's put the weight on you can gradually change him over to something that will sustain him.
Just my opinion mind!

Just wondering what type of dog you have? I have a Dane that is notoriously difficult to put weight on in the winter. He drops off so easily and never looks as covered as I would like. I think this is down to him being so thin coated and any protein in his food first and foremost is used by his system as heat to keep warm, there's nothing left for fat. I have to put loads of coats on him in the winter for artificial heat just to get a bit of meat on his bones. He's much better in the summer but still a tad thin because he is so active - he's on the land most of the day haring round.
Also neutering is good at putting weight on them, in fact we have to be careful of our neutered dogs - male or female - as they tend to gain too much weight.

[_Ju_]

Who tells us that the ratio is incorrect for dogs?? I bet if you dig deep enough you'll find it's the pet food manufacturers that are quoting these figures as they have the funds to carry out the so called 'research' into it. Can you tell me what we fed dogs before Pedigree Chum and Burns existed? Do you think a dog in teh wild would go, um, no sorry there's too much bone in that meal, oops I'll have impacted feaces! They don't eat bone all the time, there must be meat as well and anyone that is feeding BARF correctly don't feed bone every day and this is how impacted feaces can result.

Dogs are domestic animals. Not wild animals. They have lost alot of the instinct that would have regulated their eating habits (just as we have) because we conditioned them over millenium. What I do know is that I have seen many BARF diets go wrong. And where you see that happen is in the vets consulting room with a moribund dog and owners wringing their hands. It is something that happens regulary, and not once in a blue moon. I really hope it never happens to your animals, so that you can go on believing BARF does no harm. I would not be so anti-BARF if it were not for the bone content, to tell you the truth. There is nothing wrong with raw liver, muscle or other offal ( though I still consider green offal is hazardous to the dogs family). But not the bone.

PS: Physiology gives us the optimum ratios of phosphorus in the diet. If a diet has too much phosphurus in comparison to Calcium, then there is Calcium depletion and the body starts taking calcium from the bone to use elsewhere. Happens in lots of mammals with lots of different diets. I put more credence in the science of physiology than the faith of BARF feeding.

[porshiepoo]

[QUOTE=BARF does not stand for 'bones and raw food' like some quote, it stands for 'biological appropriate raw food' and includes veggies and cereals in it
[/QUOTE]

Think you'll find it means either, depending on what resource you are deriving the information from.


My main concern about this diet was always the doubt that we, as humans, could never fully understand the way a wild dog would eat or why they eat certain foods and avoid others.
The BARF diet is a human concept adapted to include what we believe a dog needs based on research of wild dogs. However a wild dog is adapted to a completely different environment than a pet dog and to assume that what is good for the goose is good for the gander seems a tad ignorant to me.
I was very close to feeding BARF but there were a few things that never sat right for me in the concept of it. It sounds like a good idea but I wonder how many people who feed BARF actually read up on the sites that are against it and their reasoning behind it? Or the research that shows it's not actually ideal for the dog and could be harmful?

[crustyroll]

Dogs are domestic animals. Not wild animals. They have lost alot of the instinct that would have regulated their eating habits (just as we have) because we conditioned them over millenium.

They weren't always domestic and I don't believe they have lost their instincts, we just think they have and treat them that way. I raise all my pups on the BARF diet and you can very easily see that they know what to do and how to rip something apart to eat it. I don't have to teach them, mum doesn't, so where does that come from, instinct?? They also say that dogs have lost the instinct to mate, no they haven't, its humans interfering far too much. A perfect example was my bitch being mated with a top class winner, she wanted to rip him to shreds and we didn't mate her. The stud dog owners said she wasn't ready, yes she was, and we took the other top dog out and she stood perfectly for him. Now why did she want the other dog? Something was telling her he was the one... do dogs fancy other dogs, well we won't ever know that, but they do know what they are doing and we often don't listen.

Until something goes wrong I will continue to feed BARF, just as I would with dry food, ie, I'd worry more about bloat from dry food. I believe I must be doing it pretty well as I've never had a problem in all the years I have been feeding. The vets can't find anything wrong with my dogs and I've never had to take them apart from more serious matters which weren't related to diet. There has never been problems with feaces or refusing a bit of meat, which I often got with a bowl of dried kibble.

Everyone must do what they feel is right but I do believe that in all walks of life we are moving away from some of the old ideas and loosing valuable information and knowledge in the long term.

[_Ju_]

Still does not adress the fact that while you have been fortunate enough not to see something wrong happen that it does not happen. And frequently. And it is a vet who ends up having to repair the damage.
I worked exclusively in a small animal veterinary practice for 6 years, during which time there was one boxer with bloat (whose last meal had not been dry, but rice mixed with vegetables and chicken (boneless) and one rotweiller that I know of ( because it belonged to my sister living in Holland) who bloated on dry food (In the vet practice where I worked however only one dog with bloat in 6 and a bit years- and a breed with propensity to it: the gastric ligament in deep chested dogs is often too long, which allows the stomach to rotate on itself when playing energetically on a full stomach. When playing energetically the stomach content tends to continue its movement due to inertia, and sometimes that results in the stomach twisting if the stomach ligaments are long enough). Where as there were several cases a year of impacted feaces and/or peritonitis due to diets that contained bone. I still remember a very handsome Serra de Estrela dog ( they are massive animals!), whose owner was giving him what he called a natural diet (perhaps BARF had not yet been coined, as it was 15 years ago or more already). This "natural diet" included vegetables, cereals ( mostly rice- both cooked oddly enough) and the trim waste of chicken and turkey. Not the long bones as the owner energetically explained: he would never give dangerous long bird bones to his dog as these could splinter. That poor animal's x-rays showed not only huge impactation of the chewed bones up the colon, but also peritonitis. It had to be put to sleep after 3-4 days of treatment because of the pain it was in. So even statistically you have more reason to worry about the bones you are including in your dogs diet than causing bloat. And even on a BARF diet an animal can bloat. This is what I know about bones in the diet.
Dogs have actually lost touch with some of the very instincts you describe. In a pack of wild dogs, only the strongest healthiest animals will mate instinctively. Weaker animals are naturally weeded out by nature and by the breeding instincts and behaviours. Males will fight so only the superior male in a pack will mate. And the female will tend to accept only the male that has shown his worth. We take animals that would have little or no hope of surviving in the wild, with serious genetical defects ( for example animals with shortened snouts that make their breathing at rest a chore) and make them mate in a way so as to perpetuate or even accentuate the defect). A male or female with such a defect would not survive puppy-hood, never mind mate if it did.

I have an idea that you seem to think that the two choices are BARF or kibble and that all kibble is created equal. Well, it is not. By all means feed your dog raw meat/offal along with the creal and vegetables you want. But remove the bone, except for bones which cannot be chewed and swallowed ( ex: cow leg bones). If you feed your dog cereals and/or vegetables, be aware that if they are raw, they are bulking agents and the dog will get little or no nutrition from them. Even if they are cooked, they are limited in what they give a dog. If you choose a kibble, choose a good quality one. Price is generally mirrors the quality of a kibble. If it is as cheap as dirt, then it will be made from the dregs of (low digestibility) animal protein and lots of bulking agents and additives to make it palatable and preserve it ( if the poo looks just like the food, only slightly wetter and reshaped, then nothing much happened to it during digestion). I would stay away from cans and pouches (unless special diets medically prescribed). They have lots of additives and after the heat treatment they receive on production, I don’t believe they can have any vitamins left in them.

[Liz]

I was very interested in reading about dog foods.
Maybe you can help me. I am looking for food which will fatten my dog. I feed him 4 tiuns of peigree chum or winalot casserole, and biscuits a day, and chicken , but he is rapidly loosing weight and his bones are sticking out. Vets cant find whats wrong with him.

I would recommend you try Bobby on Naturediet. It's a fantastic moist food and I'm sure they have a digestive enzyme which might help as it sounds like he isn't absorbing the food for some reason?
What are his poos like? Does he ever get windy?
I'm just wondering whether he has IBS or some kind of digestive problem in which case the food you are giving him might not be helping.
I would give you some Naturediet to try but Benjy is on the one for losing weight!

Have a look at their website. www.naturediet.co.uk

[Liz]

Actually having looked through some factsheets, on the Naturediet website, if you suspect that Bobby may have gastro-intestinal problems then the food I give to Benjy would be best.
They also recommend probiotics.

I give Benjy a probiotic/digestive enzyme blend which I get from America via Ebay.

[Dadie]

You could try making him fat balls?
Think raw burgers full of cals....cheap minced meat ( the cheaper ones have a higher fat content), raw eggs to bind, oats (for a bit of bulk and to soak up the oil) and veg oil (extra cals).
Roll into balls and feed as well as his food to try to help him gain weight.
You can always cook them as well, but you lose a lot of the fat you put in them!

[Stefan]

Oh... trust you guys to turn the question for which dog food people feed into a heated discussion....lol.
Fran, personally I would not feed tinned food, I know what goes in it before it's turned into nice looking and smelling chunks, my neighbour used to work in a cat food factory as a line manager !!!! Dog food is made the same way, the chunks are just made larger.
It will also not be too useful to put weight on a dog that is struggling to gain weight.
My choice would be Burn's for active dogs. Very high protein and oil content, which will help your dog to gain weight.
http://burnspet.co.uk/products/burns...tive-dogs.html

[_Ju_]

Oh... trust you guys to turn the question for which dog food people feed into a heated discussion....lol.
Fran, personally I would not feed tinned food, I know what goes in it before it's turned into nice looking and smelling chunks, my neighbour used to work in a cat food factory as a line manager !!!! Dog food is made the same way, the chunks are just made larger.
It will also not be too useful to put weight on a dog that is struggling to gain weight.

Your are right about cans. Dreadful things. About heated discussions I am not so sure about, unless disagreeing equals heated discussion.

[teenybash]

Here's my tu'pence worth....Mainly I use Wilsons made in Dundee with cooked mince, pasta, veg and whatever else. I add cod liver oil and find this disappears from doggy dishes very quickly. I find my pooches just don't like the complete biscuit dog food and I don't either [not that I eat it] because I don't know whats in it. My doggies are happy and thriving, which is what it's all about.
Back in the year dot when my mother was growing up, her dogs were fed on mashed potato buttermilk and whatever scraps were about and if a beast had been killed, which wasn't often...bones were also given. Often she would talk, with pride about the long trouble free lives they had. Back then there was not the on call vets we have now and the pricey promoted dog food that profits the now huge pet food industry.
I think it is a case of each to their own and whatever works for our dogs, is good. xx