Why independence?

[theone]

And I don't know why that would be, considering that Scottish registered vessels accounted for 65% of the weight landed and 60% of the total value of UK landings in (I could only Google) 2009. In which other countries, do you suppose, would an industry achieving 60% of total earnings have no "influence" over policy and funding whatsoever? Another example of mismatched and unequal bed mates? There are 3 in this marriage, to quote another subordinate partner, and the third one here is Arrogance.[/QUOTE]

Okay, let me put it to you like this. Fisheries policy is set in Europe.

Using your figures, the UK lands say 100 fish. At 60%, Scotland lands 60 fish, the rest of the UK lands 40.

When it comes to the quota negotiations in Brussels, when we're competing with the French, the Spanish etc etc, who has a larger voice? The country landing 100 fish, or the country landing 60 fish?

[Corrie 3]

John, Just think of it as a Teenager leaving the Family nest and wanting to make a life on his own without his Parents. Thats what we are trying to achieve, we dont want to be tied to Englands apron strings anymore but want to go out and make a life for ourselves!

C3.....

[John Little]

LOL - Scotland as a teenager! Again that implies that England is in charge of you. We ain't.

That, above all, I don't get. Scotland is a fine place full of grand people and I cannot for the life of me think of her as inferior to anyone.

But hey - if that's what you all want then not a squeak from me.

[RecQuery]

LOL - Scotland as a teenager! Again that implies that England is in charge of you. We ain't.

That, above all, I don't get. Scotland is a fine place full of grand people and I cannot for the life of me think of her as inferior to anyone.

But hey - if that's what you all want then not a squeak from me.

Perhaps it's a result of the London-centricity of the UK with London happening to be in England, as I've heard similar opinions from people in Wales, Northern Ireland and the North of England.

I've got nothing against an English parliament with a smaller federal parliament that would met periodically on international issues etc. I'd argue that this parliament should small with members appointed by the devolved parliaments (each region allowed to appoint the same number).

It's really not an anti-English thing - despite all of the anti-Scottish rhetoric in the media - I have and acquaintances who happen to be English etc. I'm sure for some people it is but every group, subculture and opinion has it's lunatic fringes.

[John Little]

That sounds reasonable and beneficial to all.

As to the media I take no note of them. Ignorant rantings; they do nothing but damage. It's down to people in the end, not stereotypes, invented history or statistics.

The Welsh and Irish would have to be there too and the Manx. But where to site a federal parliament?

[Crackeday]

Independence would be a disaster!!!! Id rather stay in the union. Salmond would ruin the country, alot of people only voted SNP at the election due to the lib dems jumping into bed with the Tories and not having faith in "new-ish" Labour.
I would hate independence, I cant see one thing changing for the better if we left the union.
Id vote for the Status Quo (insert music gag here ) our little toy parliament in Edinburgh doesnt ruin things too much

[Corrie 3]

LOL - Scotland as a teenager! Again that implies that England is in charge of you. We ain't.

In certain ways you are John, who decides what rate of income tax,road tax, fuel tax, vat and loads of other things?....Scotland doesn't, its all decided in London !! We want to run our own country not be governed and restrained from London, if we mess up then its our own fault but somehow I don't think we will!!!
ps, I didn't say we were inferior to England but it is time to fly the nest and let England grow old gracefully !!!

C3...

[Crackeday]

We want to run our own country not be governed and restrained from London, if we mess up then its our own fault but somehow I don't think we will!!!
ps, I didn't say we were inferior to England but it is time to fly the nest and let England grow old gracefully !!!

C3...

"We" havent voted for it yet, and I dont think We would ever vote for it as the last polls indicated.

[Corrie 3]

"We" havent voted for it yet, and I dont think We would ever vote for it as the last polls indicated.

Sorry Crackeday, When I say WE I mean the Scots who are in favour of running our own Country. Of course we still have to have the vote and you are entitled to assume the result but we shall see!!!
C3.....

[Corrie 3]

Independence would be a disaster!!!!

How do you know that until you have tried it, thats like saying you dont like strawberries without eating one first!!!

C3......

[golach]

We want to run our own country not be governed and restrained from London, if we mess up then its our own fault but somehow I don't think we will!!!
ps, I didn't say we were inferior to England but it is time to fly the nest and let England grow old gracefully !!!C3...

I certainly did not vote for you to decide what I want and think, I personally want none of the above.

[Corrie 3]

I certainly did not vote for you to decide what I want and think, I personally want none of the above.

Sorry Golach...see post #69

C3......

[theone]

How do you know that until you have tried it, thats like saying you dont like strawberries without eating one first!!!

C3......

The problem with that comparison is that independence is a one way street.

It'd be like trying strawberries, finding out you don't like them, then being told "tough, you've made your choice, now you're stuck with strawberries forever".

[weezer 316]

IM sorry, I must be ignorant or something, but the next time I see someone suggesting being part of the union has inhibited Scotland I will scream. You clearly cannot see the bigger picture.

Scotland, and its people, have a monumental voice in the world via our union with the rest of the UK. Who was the last prime minister of Denmark? Perhaps Finland? What about Ireland? What was their policies? Not a clue. Yet, a scotsman was the leader of the UK, and another was the chancellor. Therefore, by default, Scotland had probably the loudest voice in the EU after Germany, and was in control of one of the worlds largest economies. To suggest this inhibits scots, by which I mean scotland, is utterly absurd. Without it, we would be a afterthought in European policy and on the world stage, not a driver as we are at the moment.

[RecQuery]

IM sorry, I must be ignorant or something, but the next time I see someone suggesting being part of the union has inhibited Scotland I will scream. You clearly cannot see the bigger picture.

Scotland, and its people, have a monumental voice in the world via our union with the rest of the UK. Who was the last prime minister of Denmark? Perhaps Finland? What about Ireland? What was their policies? Not a clue. Yet, a scotsman was the leader of the UK, and another was the chancellor. Therefore, by default, Scotland had probably the loudest voice in the EU after Germany, and was in control of one of the worlds largest economies. To suggest this inhibits scots, by which I mean scotland, is utterly absurd. Without it, we would be a afterthought in European policy and on the world stage, not a driver as we are at the moment.

I understand your point but just because some people of Scottish descent happen to hold positions of power in the UK that doesn't mean Scotland has a loud voice or disproportionate influence. In terms of population or seats as I've said already Scotland can exert no control it can talk and suggest things but it can just as easily be ignored. Scotland can't live vicariously through the UK.

[theone]

I understand your point but just because some people of Scottish descent happen to hold positions of power in the UK that doesn't mean Scotland has a loud voice or disproportionate influence. In terms of population or seats as I've said already Scotland can exert no control it can talk and suggest things but it can just as easily be ignored. Scotland can't live vicariously through the UK.

And what control will Caithness hold in an independent Scotland?

Where does this seperatism to excert influence stop?

[RecQuery]

The problem with that comparison is that independence is a one way street.

It'd be like trying strawberries, finding out you don't like them, then being told "tough, you've made your choice, now you're stuck with strawberries forever".

Well yeah but that's an argument for not trying or doing anything, for never changing the way things are or done. If the people saying that Scotland was a net drain on the UK actually believed that, then why not let them go it alone for 5 to 10 years or whatever to shut them up and disprove the issue. If I worked with someone who constantly undermined me, I'd let them take over and fail on some things.

[RecQuery]

And what control will Caithness hold in an independent Scotland?

Where does this seperatism to excert influence stop?

By that argument what influence does the UK have on the world.

[theone]

Well yeah but that's an argument for not trying or doing anything, for never changing the way things are or done.

Not really. It's an argument for making the correct decision based on facts. Not just "giving it a go" because we haven't tried it before!

If the people saying that Scotland was a net drain on the UK actually believed that, then why not let them go it alone for 5 to 10 years or whatever to shut them up and disprove the issue. If I worked with someone who constantly undermined me, I'd let them take over and fail on some things.

That's not an option. The referendum won't be for a 5 or 10 year trial period, it will be forever.

[theone]

By that argument what influence does the UK have on the world.

The UK has a very large voice in world affairs. Disproportionate to our size I would think. Look at our position in the UN, NATO and the EU.

Now compare that to what Scotland would have.