How do we cut down road crashes?

[mi16]

""Most true, but I think recent experience in Caithness might suggest that those involved in 2 recent incidents on the A roads were quite young and/or driving cars normally associated with "cruising""

I think the most recent accident was a vauxhall astra driven by a 23yr old man and the earlier one was a subaru impreza driven by a 33 year old man.
One a family hatchback and one a high performance saloon car.
At what age do you suggest being let loose on performance cars?

Has anyone considered the possibility of poor road conditions?

[orkneycadian]

23 = quite young
Imprezza = "Cruising car"

Maybe the age needs to be 35?

[chaz]

If the kids had to fork out the insurance themselves they may learn the value of money and drive a bit more carefully as a result.

I agree, my daughter is 17 next week and shes still at school but shes paying her own insurance with her part time job money.Most of her friends parents pay thiers and buy the car for kids who dont want a part time job.
Too easy for a lot of kids and they lose all respect for a lot of things.

[pottheed]

There is nothing illegal about modifying cars as long as you tell your insurance company, If you want to modify your car go ahead free choice nd all, as long as it comply's with the law.

There is no point limiting the CC a car has, a 2.0L citroen picasso has 90bhp, a 2.0L Mitsubishi Evolution has 450bhp

Make everyone fit snow tyres to their vehicles?

the astra mentioned above was standard and no, not associated with cruising, and whilst the impreza was modified it was driven by an experienced driver, who didnt "cruise"

Cruising tends to be done around town where there are less deaths

There is no point guessing or blaming people involved in those type of accidents until the police reports are out

[Penelope Pitstop]

I agree, my daughter is 17 next week and shes still at school but shes paying her own insurance with her part time job money.Most of her friends parents pay thiers and buy the car for kids who dont want a part time job.
Too easy for a lot of kids and they lose all respect for a lot of things.

I can't help thinking this is a bit of a sweeping statement. In my experience most kids don't get cars, insurance, road tax, fuel just given to them, they have to earn it by some means or another, which is usually why they run around in much older cheaper, smaller engined cars!!

As for pricing 17 year olds out of higher performance cars, I think that the insurance system pretty well sorts that out just now! I've found out that anything over a 1100cc engine for a 17 year old is pretty prohibitive in insurance costs!

[carasmam]

Surprised no-ones mentioned the state of the roads as a factor yet. If you hit a pothole that wasn't there the last time you were on a road, for instance, on a corner you know you can take at 60 mph, you will be across the road before you know whats happened...

I learnt to drive in a Metro, then the day I passed my test had the choice of 2.0 Granada's, various Sierra's and an XR3i within the family to drive - no-one batted an eyelid to me taking one of those out. As a family of petrol heads we'd been brought up to respect cars and the power under the bonnet.

I'd also be interested to know when people are out with an instructor are they actually learning to drive or just learning to pass the test. Even though it was only a Metro my instructor learnt me not to brake once I was actually 'in' a corner, to accelerate out of corners etc Also he drummed in to me not to rely on my brakes and use the gears to slow down etc

[mi16]

I think I did mention the poor road conditions beign a possibility.

Someone said 23 as being a young driver, I am sorry but that is potentially a driver with 6 years experience. If you had 6 years experience in your job are you experienced or inexperienced?
You say an impreza is a cruising car, what about a vauxhall corsa, ford fiesta honda civic and the like I think you will see much more of these types than impreza's. Just because a car is powerful doesnt make it a cruisers car. Do you want any car that is capable of exceeding the national speed limit banned or restricted?

As carasman has pointed out gaining a driving liscence is about passing the test and not beign a competant driver however both of these recent tragedies involved drivers that I would consider to be experienced. I notice that nobody seems to have considerd mechanical failure as a potential cause, or how about a deer on the road or maybe the driver took a funny turn!!

There are so many potential causes of accidents, lets not be keyboard accident investigators here and lets not lose sight of the losses the families of the victims are suffering

[mi16]

23 = quite young
Imprezza = "Cruising car"

Maybe the age needs to be 35?

Ok next question what is the definition of a "performance car"

[Thumper]

I think I did mention the poor road conditions beign a possibility.

Someone said 23 as being a young driver, I am sorry but that is potentially a driver with 6 years experience. If you had 6 years experience in your job are you experienced or inexperienced?
You say an impreza is a cruising car, what about a vauxhall corsa, ford fiesta honda civic and the like I think you will see much more of these types than impreza's. Just because a car is powerful doesnt make it a cruisers car. Do you want any car that is capable of exceeding the national speed limit banned or restricted?

As carasman has pointed out gaining a driving liscence is about passing the test and not beign a competant driver however both of these recent tragedies involved drivers that I would consider to be experienced. I notice that nobody seems to have considerd mechanical failure as a potential cause, or how about a deer on the road or maybe the driver took a funny turn!!

There are so many potential causes of accidents, lets not be keyboard accident investigators here and lets not lose sight of the losses the families of the victims are suffering

Good post,couldnt rep you again tho or I would of! At the end of the day,this is only ever discussed when a tragic accident happens,and everyone thinks they know what happened and how to stop it happening again,well it wont stop it happening talking about it on here,or trying to put blame on others for giving their son/daughter a car etc,there are lots of factors to take into consideration,accidents are usually just that...an accident,tragic none the less but tearing it apart looking for answers wont chnage that x

[carasmam]

I think I did mention the poor road conditions beign a possibility.

Someone said 23 as being a young driver, I am sorry but that is potentially a driver with 6 years experience. If you had 6 years experience in your job are you experienced or inexperienced?
You say an impreza is a cruising car, what about a vauxhall corsa, ford fiesta honda civic and the like I think you will see much more of these types than impreza's. Just because a car is powerful doesnt make it a cruisers car. Do you want any car that is capable of exceeding the national speed limit banned or restricted?

As carasman has pointed out gaining a driving liscence is about passing the test and not beign a competant driver however both of these recent tragedies involved drivers that I would consider to be experienced. I notice that nobody seems to have considerd mechanical failure as a potential cause, or how about a deer on the road or maybe the driver took a funny turn!!

There are so many potential causes of accidents, lets not be keyboard accident investigators here and lets not lose sight of the losses the families of the victims are suffering

Sorry Mi16, I assumed frosty/greasy road conditions when I read your post.

[mi16]

I must admit that was the main thinking behind it, but then changed my wording to cover all eventualities with the condition of the roads.
On that point it must be pointed out that the roads across scotland are in an awful state.
Makes me wonder what the £235 I shelled out this morning for roat tax goes towards.

[Dadie]

Its just the fatal road crashes that get peoples attention.
What about the cars you see upsidedown in ditches where people have "walked" away with minor or no injuries.
Nobody really hears about them, there is a car I noticed today upsidedown with police tape on it on the way to Wick.
There must be a multitude of small bumps and prangs happening daily.
Bigger and more serious accidents happening less often, and fatal accidents very rarely so when they happen everyone sits up and takes notice.

[mi16]

I had a bump myself the other month which I thought nothing off, skidded off the road on black ice into a ditch/wall.
I guess I must have been driving too fast for the road conditions although I was doing 20mph max, however if you cannot stop and go off the road then you are going too fast.
I am under 35 and was drivign a vauxhall vectra...does that make me an idiotic boy racer cruiser idiot??
probably

[sandyr1]

We had some very serious road collisions here and in the Community I lived in, it got so bad that the High School Student Council, along with the Police took a vehicle that had been in a Fatal Collision involving a Student, and parked it on the front lawn of the High School..
It had huge shock value, and lots of complaints of insensitivity but over the years it seemed to do the trick.
Other High Schools followed suit and it became a 'Grave Warning' on the dangers of Speed and Drinking.
I don't think the size of the engine has a lot to do with these collisions...Here when you pass your test you can drive a 1.2 or 6 litre.
With adults I just don't know. I don't think anyone does......I did hear that Adults were also aware of the wrecked cars...it made them think.
There is a 'thing' called...'The Quest for speed' and we nearly all go thru that. One of the UK's most popular shows is Jeremy Clarkson and from what I see most of his presentations are on cars and speed......

[Walter Ego]

Just a polite reminder, folks:

Can we keep it to road safety in general and not drift into speculating on recent individual incidents?

Thx.

W.

[upolian]

I had a bump myself the other month which I thought nothing off, skidded off the road on black ice into a ditch/wall.
I guess I must have been driving too fast for the road conditions although I was doing 20mph max, however if you cannot stop and go off the road then you are going too fast.
I am under 35 and was drivign a vauxhall vectra...does that make me an idiotic boy racer cruiser idiot??
probably

Vectra vxr lol ?

[Vistravi]

Modifications could well be something that could get covered at MOT time as well. If its modified, it fails.

Not all modified cars are bad. Some after being modified handle better and in most cases corner better. Take for example a vw polo. They have a tenancy of rolling when you hit a corner at the speed limit. But if you lower it 30 to 60 mil then the tenancy is slimmed down.
Another example is of my partner's summer car and our family car. Our family car is a ford mondeo 16v vetec and his summer car is a celica gt4. Ford mondeo is as basic as it comes while the celica is lowered 60 mill, has special tyres on it, spoiler, dumpvalve etc.
Now guess which one corners better? Afraid to say it is the celica. It is a car you hear before you see and is low down (Got stuck when pregnant in it). But it is better at cornering and is a good car. Our mondeo is not as good but is good enough.
The of course some cars come as standard lowered 30 mil. Another example is a accord which handles like a boat when it comes to corners in its standard condition. Lower it 30 mil and she's a whole lot better.

[Vistravi]

I had a bump myself the other month which I thought nothing off, skidded off the road on black ice into a ditch/wall.
I guess I must have been driving too fast for the road conditions although I was doing 20mph max, however if you cannot stop and go off the road then you are going too fast.
I am under 35 and was drivign a vauxhall vectra...does that make me an idiotic boy racer cruiser idiot??
probably

Thats what our previous accidents were, bumps. One of them wrote of our car though.

[juniper]

Thats what our previous accidents were, bumps. One of them wrote of our car though.

How many cars was that ?

[Vistravi]

How many cars was that ?

Our car and a fence in snow conditions.