who is god

[secrets in symmetry]

Uh oh.... Just realised I have breached the 3rd Commandment - "Do not take the Lords name in vain"....

SIS, can I join you on the hike to the hills in search of that burning bush?

Of course you can. I'll be glad of the company. But you're advised to bring your own matches as it's a wee bitty cold and damp out there at this time of year.

[Blarney]

If it's much of a burning bush there'll be no need for matches - I thought that they were spontaneously combustible?

[secrets in symmetry]

The whole thing is a waste of time as Thomas Aquinas pointed out.

There are truths of faith.
There are truths of reason.

The two cannot refute or contradict each other and any attempt to do so will end in frustration and ire.

You either believe or you do not.

If that is accepted then a lot of angst can be avoided.

God, I hate agnosticism! It's such a copout.

Thanks for the book recommendations Music Monster. For some reason, I was expecting something more recent than Kant and even Lewis. I think I should start with Hawking and then go back to the Classics.

[Bazeye]

LOL. I did not mean those sort of questions. Though now that you mention it I have met plenty who have prayed for that sort of thing- and read lots of stuff about people who say they have got that sort of stuff after they have prayed for it.

If it works for you then go for it.

I used to pray and hope for the lottery winning numbers a while ago but when I realised it wasnt going to happen I've just stumbled along not being arsed about it and carried on as usual. And guess what...... I'm as contented with my life now as I would be if I won the double rollover.......or am i? ye only joking course I am.

[Bazeye]

Think gleeber might know what i'm on about.

[theone]

Well, I take exception to some of the flippant comments on here, but to me they represent an uncertainty....

Really? My impression was not that the previous posters were uncertain at all, the majority (a lot more than thought would be) seemed to be fully against religion, with some obviously for it.

I did a good few years at university studying and reading Theology and you who dismissed it as a boring thing, I don't think you know what proper theology is!!! It is far from boring but very complicated. Those of you who think that all theologians are religious, think again!

I don't doubt for a second that it's interesting and complicated, but, since this thread started I've had a look around the web and think it is more the philisophical and moral aspects I'd like to explore. It seems that there is more and more literature emerging with these as separate subjects whereas before they were perhaps examined together?

Theologians are quite simply those of us who can consider arguments for and against the existence of God from a scientific - yes, that's right, Theology is a scientific based study!!! - perspective.

I don't doubt that it is thorough and methodical, but is it really scientific?

Science, for me, is the study of the subject looking for evidence. That's perhaps a simplistic description, but I think the search for hard evidence is more scientific than "considering arguments for and against the existance of god"

I think the reason that universities tend to class theology under the faculties of Arts or Divinities rather than of Science would support this.

Religion is for sheep?! Interesting analogy, I assume you are referring to the Judeo-Christian reference of God as a shepherd - clever reference!!!

Come on, I think we all know the intent of the original posters comment.

[John Little]

God, I hate agnosticism! It's such a copout.

Thanks for the book recommendations Music Monster. For some reason, I was expecting something more recent than Kant and even Lewis. I think I should start with Hawking and then go back to the Classics.

St Thomas Aquinas was an agnostic?

[cullpacket]

God is the best scam ever very clever but the thing that realy gets me is that he is law what's that all about?

[silverlady]

Here is another book recommendation - Crazy love, by Francis Chan. Google it and his website is v interesting. God is LOVE! x

[gleeber]

I remember the time on the Org when we had a thread discussing whether God could be discussed on the Org or not.
For someone who doesnt exist he causes an awful lot of trouble.

[Corrie 3]

I dont have a God but I do have a Goddess......Is that acceptable in this day and age of equality??
And if Tesco is for sheep I am sure that religion is also for sheep!!

C3.....

[bekisman]

I remember the time on the Org when we had a thread discussing whether God could be discussed on the Org or not.
For someone who doesnt exist he causes an awful lot of trouble.

"It should also be taken into consideration that certain topics like football or religion can very easily be misread and cause offence, so great care should be taken when dealing with these types of issues."

Pleased to see we're getting the balance right; no downright abusive posts, just good-natured banter

[northener]

Well, I'd jut like to thank Music Monster for pointing out just how much serious fun theology really is and that those of us who haven't answered this gripping issue with 110% seriousness obviusly don't know as much as Music Monster.

It's always nice to have someone around who can do the jolly important stuff for us poor ignorant souls.

We are not worthy.



Now, MM. I would say that all Theology is the pointless study of fantasy works. I have seen no evidence that there is a supreme being who created us and who takes an active interest in our lives.
There may be a being who had a hand in our creation - granted, but no evidence that said being(s) take any interest in our welfare has ever been produced.

Thus rendering all worship (and study of said worship) pointless.

Why people feel the need to worship a deity is another matter entirely.



Carry on.

[theone]

"It should also be taken into consideration that certain topics like football or religion can very easily be misread and cause offence, so great care should be taken when dealing with these types of issues."

I've got no problem with somebody being offended by my actions, but if someone is offended by my opinions then, I think, the problem lies with them and not me.



Some might call that hypocrisy, but I won't get offended by that!

[secrets in symmetry]

Northener, as MM says, and as far as I understand it, Theology encompasses far more than the study of religion. It is, or can be, abstract and systematic, and as such is more like a branch of Philosophy, including Moral Philosophy and also Logic.

[The Music Monster]

Come on, I think we all know the intent of the original posters comment.

OK, I confess, that comment was a little facetious!!!

It is indeed a science, random I know! But it is about understanding the role of belief in the world, and although you can't scientifically prove in God existence, you can scientifically analyse the world that either we were brought into by a creator or we brought a creator into. Some of the most fascinating arguments are looking at why people needed a belief in a supreme being and why that altered over time.

SiS, there are some very good newer theological books, but I tend to find that in this day and age, everyone has some bias to portray either for or against the existence of God and very often they can come down on one side or another. The best period of writings in terms of unbiased texts is 18th century when the enlightenment kicked in. People were writing books to solidify their own views, not really sure what their beliefs were themselves and as such give a surprisingly objective argument. Of course, there are exceptions!!! If you find a good new book, please let me know, I can never get enough theological discussion!

I've never had a minion before, but if you're offering, Northerner, then I could create a post for you so you can truly bow down to my superior knowledge!!! As for the serious part of your post, the human psyche - I'm using the word psyche instead of soul as that seems to be something of a taboo for a lot of people - is a fascinating area of study and it is that part that connects to a higher existence, be that God or imagination. It is our human nature to require something beyond what we have, even if it is as grounded as dreams and ambitions. And as for your comment about worship, I make you a promise: worshippers get more out of worship than abstainers from worship get out of abstaining. That is fact, irrespective of God's existence. Something to think about....

[theone]

OK, I confess, that comment was a little facetious!!!

It is indeed a science, random I know! But it is about understanding the role of belief in the world, and although you can't scientifically prove in God existence, you can scientifically analyse the world that either we were brought into by a creator or we brought a creator into. Some of the most fascinating arguments are looking at why people needed a belief in a supreme being and why that altered over time.

Yes, of course you can scientifically study the world, but in terms of theology, are you studying the world or the beliefs?

For me it's all a bit too subjective to be science. It's based on opinions rather than discovered facts.

Repeating myself a bit, but to me it's like the example of philosophy. More of an art than a science.

[northener]

What's the pay like for a minion these days?

Yup, some interesting stuff there and I take on board the comments regarding the actual scope of Theology too.

[fingalmacool]

It has always been Politically Incorrect to ridicule the church/god. The penalty not so long ago was to be burnt at the stake especially if you were a woman. But thanks to the pranks of the notorious English church with it transvestite vicars and eccentric ecclesiastics, the church has become a legitimate butt of ridicule.
Lets face it, there are no laughs in the bible, and if true, little humour in hell or purgatory and no doubt it is totally improper to giggle in heaven. I'm not sure if I'm a believer so i tend to fall back on humour, then I could be an atheist and the church i do not attend is ?
If god is good why do his peoples put lightning rods on top of steeples

[Dog-eared]

E' Bible

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible