who is god

[squidge]

My relationship with God is somewhat confused. Sometimes I believe in Him, sometimes I don't. There has been times where I have needed the reassurance one gets from the faith that you aren't alone, when I needed to be able to close my eyes and pray and hope that God hears me. And Myet I cannot accept the bible as truth nor the teachings of some churches on homosexuality, sex before marriage and the idea that on the dAy of judgement, one would be taken and one left.


And yet there have been times when I had no doubts

[weezer 316]

If you know how God created the Earth, can you tell me how I can create my own Universe? I have a false vacuum in the cupboard under the stairs, but do I need my own inflaton, and, if so, do you know where I can get one? Do Tesco sell them?

Firstly, No I cant. We dont know what banged, why it banged, what happened before it banged or even what caused it to bang. This is an area of active research. I think the gravitation detectors currently being built by nasa for use over the next decade should allow us at least a small window into which to peer into these mysteries.

Perhaps you could ask god, who I am sure started the whole process off! Oh wait, where the hell did he come from then!

[Saveman]

Saveman,

Selective reading, and not alot of evidence.

1: Fossilisation records, covering millions of species, dated over the last 3 billion year via methods such as carbon dating. This, in line with the location of finds, such as the earlies humans being found in east africa, are quite clear. Clearly, a humoid species identical to us appeared there 200 000 years ago, and migrated, again backed up with bones found in the ground. Modern genetics then goes to show that everyone outside if Africa is quite closely related. Please explain what about that requires faith?

That it all happened by chance. That requires faith.

2: 2 Peter 2:4 and Revelation 19:20 certianly do talk of burning hell for sinners.

2 Peter 2:4 - Tartarus - pits of dense darkness - A prison-like condition of spiritual darkness.

Rev 19:20 - a fiery lake that burns with sulphur - indicating complete and utter destruction.

Where does it say all sinners will burn in hell for eternity??

3: John 6;44 actually says "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day". I Double checked here (http://www.biblegateway.com) for clairity in case my bible was somehow wrong.

So the scripture says in effect no one can come to Jesus unless his father, God, draws him. So God would draw people to his son that he himself would choose. Perhaps another scripture used in harmony with this would help.....Matt 7:7-11

4: God created the earth in genesis. You yourself said you believe in the big bang fine tuned by god, in contradiction to what the bible says. Science has show that the earth formed from a massive swirl of gas and dust that formed our sun and all the other bodies in the solar system, gravity being the force responsible, not god. This would clearly contradict genesis and be based on observation, as opposed to a tale in a book written by someone who, bare in mind, had been exposed to about the same amount of information through their entire lifetime as an 8yo with an internet connection today. Has the bible been revised with this new data?

The law of gravity has to have a lawgiver. I don't see how any of this contradicts the statement in Gen 1:1 -"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Jer 33:25 - God says himself that he set up the physical laws of the universe.

Your pointing to a process and saying the process itself is the cause. The process is the effect, the Creator is the cause.

[gleeber]

Your pointing to a process and saying the process itself is the cause. The process is the effect, the Creator is the cause.

If that's the case then who created God or do you insist on different standards for Him?

[Saveman]

If that's the case then who created God or do you insist on different standards for Him?

I don't insist on different standards for Him. Almighty God by definition is not part of creation but the Creator. Ps 90:2 - "Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." He has always existed and will always exist. He is the First Cause, the origin of life.

[gleeber]

Well there's a transparent brick wall if ever I saw one. Amen

[weezer 316]

That it all happened by chance. That requires faith.




2 Peter 2:4 - Tartarus - pits of dense darkness - A prison-like condition of spiritual darkness.

Rev 19:20 - a fiery lake that burns with sulphur - indicating complete and utter destruction.

Where does it say all sinners will burn in hell for eternity??

So the scripture says in effect no one can come to Jesus unless his father, God, draws him. So God would draw people to his son that he himself would choose. Perhaps another scripture used in harmony with this would help.....Matt 7:7-11



The law of gravity has to have a lawgiver. I don't see how any of this contradicts the statement in Gen 1:1 -"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Jer 33:25 - God says himself that he set up the physical laws of the universe.

Your pointing to a process and saying the process itself is the cause. The process is the effect, the Creator is the cause.

That, in short, is the crux of the religious argument! And what a poor argument it is.

How on earth does the first point require faith?? These bones have been found, dated and proven to be this age. thier location is obviously where they were when they died. What faith is required? Please explain!

And your last point is absurd. "The law of gravity has to have a lawgiver" is probably the most ludicrous thing in this thread. What evidence is this based on?? None! Bar a 2000 year old book! Ludicrous!

Think, critically, and most of all, dont ever assume there has to be a god because you, or me, are unsure how these forces came to be. The lack of a scinetific explanation (with much work being done) for how the universe ended up with the basic forces that govern it is not proof of a god. Surely, surely you can see this!?!

[retrodj]

i think god might be an alien life form who found our planet and decided to create an experiment. we are all part of an aliens computer game.

[Saveman]

Keep knocking and it will be opened to you.....

[weezer 316]

i think god might be an alien life form who found our planet and decided to create an experiment. we are all part of an aliens computer game.

Definately more possible than a god in the religious sense

[gleeber]

seek and you will find.

[weezer 316]

Answer the questions in my previosu post gleeber

[Saveman]

That, in short, is the crux of the religious argument! And what a poor argument it is.

How on earth does the first point require faith?? These bones have been found, dated and proven to be this age. thier location is obviously where they were when they died. What faith is required? Please explain!

I'm not arguing about the bones or the dating of the bones. etc. etc. What requires faith is that life formed spontaneously from an organic soup. That random chance has produced complex life forms. That requires faith.

And your last point is absurd. "The law of gravity has to have a lawgiver" is probably the most ludicrous thing in this thread. What evidence is this based on?? None! Bar a 2000 year old book! Ludicrous!

The fine tuning of gravity and the other physical forces are undisputed. It's like the old example of coming across 10 x pound coins scattered across the pavement. You'd assume someone had dropped them. But if you came across 10 x pound coins carefully stacked up in the middle of the pavement you'd know that someone placed them that way.

Think, critically, and most of all, dont ever assume there has to be a god because you, or me, are unsure how these forces came to be. The lack of a scinetific explanation (with much work being done) for how the universe ended up with the basic forces that govern it is not proof of a god. Surely, surely you can see this!?!

I don't assume there is a God. My faith in the existence of a Creator is based on a careful study of the subject. I'm no scientist, nor am I an intellectual of any sort. But as I've said before something cannot come from nothing, and we've got a whole lot of something!

[gleeber]

Answer the questions in my previosu post gleeber

Pay attention Weezer. I'm on your side.

[weezer 316]

Saveman,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%...rey_experiment

Critical experiment. Life formed from an organic soup alright. Funnily, and showing no knowledge of the subject, it had nothing to do with random chance. It was actually bound to happen as the conditions all existed on earth to allow the forming of amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. This didnt produce complex lifeforms, it produced very very simple lifeforms, who EVOLVED! The above experiment shows this.

Tell me, how, beliveing in the big band as you do, do you think life formed? Think god exploded the universe into existence, set the conditions, that allowed a habitable planet to form here, then decided to put life on it himself? Or rather let the earth raise it itself? bear in mind if its the first your are contradicting the bible

Your last point again is very very weak. Saying we got something from nothing is ludicrous. We clearly got this universe from something, forces beyond our understanding at present. This, in no way, is proof of god. its proof we dont understand what casued the universe to come into existance, nothing more and certianly not a god.

[weezer 316]

Wrong person gleeber. Sorry

[bekisman]

Yes maybe, but for the wrong reasons.

The religion of the terrorists should have been irrelevant.

Their crime was terrorism, not being Muslim. I often wonder how much their religion actually had influence on them.

The Arabic and Eastern countries have had gripes with the West for years. There's many reasons, religion isn't a big one.

I don't think their was nearly as much anti-Catholic sentiment in the country when the IRA were having their bombing campaigns as there is anti-Mslim feeling now.

al-Qa'ida, is a militant Radical Islamist group. . their purpose is to destroy all who will not convert to radical Islam. Of course they are a miniscule percentage of the c1.6 billion people who of the Muslim faith.
It is a fact that I've had a friend staying who was a fundamentalist Muslim, banned from the USA.. So maybe have a wee bit of insight into how he thought..
As with the Irish 'Troubles' a small minority were involved in bombings and killings, it was a Loyalist vs. Republican thing -religion played a very small part..
The shout of "Allāhu Akbar" was screamed on those various aircraft, I've no such recollection of an individual in Ireland shouting "is maith dia" as they destroyed themselves..

[gcmac]

born in staxigoe

[Hoida]

TBH, I haven't bothered myself to read all the posts on this thread; but I'd love to say (awaiting the massive back-lash: which I won't be responding to BTW !!)

Christ is My Redeemer and I am happy to be comforted by Him in all that I do and all that I am......

Very well said Cherokee I couldn't agree more.

[Saveman]

Saveman,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%...rey_experiment

Critical experiment. Life formed from an organic soup alright. Funnily, and showing no knowledge of the subject, it had nothing to do with random chance. It was actually bound to happen as the conditions all existed on earth to allow the forming of amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. This didnt produce complex lifeforms, it produced very very simple lifeforms, who EVOLVED! The above experiment shows this.

The Miller-Urey experiment produced amino acids. For life the amino acids have to form together in a very specific way to form proteins. No proteins were formed in this experiment, never mind basic life.

Tell me, how, beliveing in the big band as you do, do you think life formed? Think god exploded the universe into existence, set the conditions, that allowed a habitable planet to form here, then decided to put life on it himself? Or rather let the earth raise it itself? bear in mind if its the first your are contradicting the bible

I believe God created the heavens, the earth and all life. Not sure how that contradicts the Bible?

Your last point again is very very weak. Saying we got something from nothing is ludicrous. We clearly got this universe from something, forces beyond our understanding at present. This, in no way, is proof of god. its proof we dont understand what casued the universe to come into existance, nothing more and certianly not a god.

Why certainly not a God? If something looks like it may have been designed, why would you forcefully conclude that they definitely is no designer?