Classroom assistants

[comca]

Cannot believe the Highland council are seriously thinking about axing classroom assistants from our schools,having seen the work and support they give to our children I think it is a disgrace this is even being considerd.Do they not realise the impact this will have on our childrens educational needs ,or maybe they just don`t care !!!

[lsb1]

Here Here!! I am totally in agreement with you. They are obviously not thinking of the childrens needs!

[Corrie 3]

I think it's a good way to make cuts and keep our Council Tax down.. I was taught in a class of 47 pupils and no assistants in those days and the standard of education was better then as well. Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own...
Well done Highland Council!!

C3....

[_Ju_]

I think it's a good way to make cuts and keep our Council Tax down.. I was taught in a class of 47 pupils and no assistants in those days and the standard of education was better then as well. Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own...
Well done Highland Council!!

C3....

Do you really think that the standard of education you recieved was better? If we are of a similair age, then we had similair teaching methods applied: I was taught on text books that had not changed in maybe 20 years. I was taught what still is the three core subjects: reading, writing, arithmetic and had a little history, geography and science thrown in. Now there is so much more in terms of subject matter. And the curriculum changes from year to year. When I was at school, education was something that was done to you. You learned to memorize, not to think. The pupils participation in the act of being educated was limited to memorization not learning. When I was in School you sank or you swam. Everyone recieved tuition at the same rate, were tested to the same criteria and either passed or did not. Those that did not were often relegated to a class of weak pupils and finally forgotten about. Those that sank are now the vast number of functioning illiterates that did not have the same opportunities that those that swam did. Now every child matters and is taught to their individual ability and it is not acceptable to allow those that cannot cope behind (and classroom assistants are essential for this to happen, especially in composite classes). I take it you were a swimmer, Corrie. How would you feel if your child was not coping and the teacher left him to get on with it as best he could.
Finally, when I got to the end of school, a very small percentage of kids had real choice in their futures ( those that swam). The rest did what they could ( from my primary class, as far as I am aware, 6 out of 32 went to further education, which was actually quite good. Nowadays highschool gets you a dead-end job unless you are one of the very lucky few that get an apprenticeship. The others have to go on to futher education to have a hope of a career of any sort. Many more pupils nowadays go on to further education than did when I left school.
If teaching is such an easy career with all these aditional benefits, I wonder that it is not hugely over-subscribed. think that dealing with people, day in day out, in intense learning situations is an exhausting day. Teachers do not get a free ride. It is a job that no money could persuade me to do.

[Puzzled]

Here Here!! I am totally in agreement with you. They are obviously not thinking of the childrens needs!

They are not thinking! Wonder if they would cut these posts if they were predominately staffed by men? Bet they are going to pay less to those that they re-deploy - no doubt they will still expect them to do the same job as before.

Management posts should be cut - too many managers, co-ordinatores etc --- and dare I say it - councillors!

I expect more unexpected cuts will surface shortly.

[lindsaymcc]

Do you really think that the standard of education you recieved was better? If we are of a similair age, then we had similair teaching methods applied: I was taught on text books that had not changed in maybe 20 years. I was taught what still is the three core subjects: reading, writing, arithmetic and had a little history, geography and science thrown in. Now there is so much more in terms of subject matter. And the curriculum changes from year to year. When I was at school, education was something that was done to you. You learned to memorize, not to think. The pupils participation in the act of being educated was limited to memorization not learning. When I was in School you sank or you swam. Everyone recieved tuition at the same rate, were tested to the same criteria and either passed or did not. Those that did not were often relegated to a class of weak pupils and finally forgotten about. Those that sank are now the vast number of functioning illiterates that did not have the same opportunities that those that swam did. Now every child matters and is taught to their individual ability and it is not acceptable to allow those that cannot cope behind (and classroom assistants are essential for this to happen, especially in composite classes). I take it you were a swimmer, Corrie. How would you feel if your child was not coping and the teacher left him to get on with it as best he could.
Finally, when I got to the end of school, a very small percentage of kids had real choice in their futures ( those that swam). The rest did what they could ( from my primary class, as far as I am aware, 6 out of 32 went to further education, which was actually quite good. Nowadays highschool gets you a dead-end job unless you are one of the very lucky few that get an apprenticeship. The others have to go on to futher education to have a hope of a career of any sort. Many more pupils nowadays go on to further education than did when I left school.
If teaching is such an easy career with all these aditional benefits, I wonder that it is not hugely over-subscribed. think that dealing with people, day in day out, in intense learning situations is an exhausting day. Teachers do not get a free ride. It is a job that no money could persuade me to do.

Agree with every single word. The loss of TAs will cause a lot of children to slip through the net.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Classroom assistants out of all the options were seen probably as one of the easier targets when making the cuts.

My worry in all this is that with the aid of a classroom assistant providing additional support to the teacher,devoting a little extra time to individual pupils or groups of pupils the children who are just coping without the need of learning support will struggle. This in turn will mean that more children will then have to be assessed for learning support as they fall behind and struggle, more learning support than is already in place is then going to needed. Not quite achieving the end results required by the council and all at the expense of the children.

[lindsaymcc]

Also, in cases of a mixed year class, surely they would need more teachers. A single teacher in the class, can not be expected to teach 2 different age groups/year groups without additional support. So what would happen to all the mixed year classes?!

[chordie]

Cannot believe the Highland council are seriously thinking about axing classroom assistants from our schools,having seen the work and support they give to our children I think it is a disgrace this is even being considerd.Do they not realise the impact this will have on our childrens educational needs ,or maybe they just don`t care !!!

Wait a minute....when Classroom Assistants were first mooted years ago, the cry went up..."Cannot believe it....the good work of our teachers will be undermined...just a way of getting teachers on the cheap....they're not even qualified teachers....don't they realise the impact this will have on our childrens' education...etc...etc." or words to that effect.

How times change.

[onecalledk]

I think it's a good way to make cuts and keep our Council Tax down.. I was taught in a class of 47 pupils and no assistants in those days and the standard of education was better then as well. Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own...
Well done Highland Council!!

C3....

I can tell you a lot of stories of people who are walking around thinking they are stupid due to the education they received when at school at this time! A lot of older adults will not attend night classes or go back to further education due to the way they were treated in the "good old days". Adults who were slow to learn as children or who were dyslexic but labelled trouble or stupid. There lives have been damaged by their school days quite dramatically.

Every child learns at his/her own pace and this has to be taken into consideration in todays schooling. It is not appropriate to have large classes and just "get on" with it. I used to work as a union learning rep and the horror stories from people about why education wasnt for them would make your hair curl. People who genuinely thought that they could do no better cos they havent got qualifications and genuinely FEARED the classroom. It was always nice to see people take the plunge, go back to education and start learning again, becoming confident BECAUSE the way education is taught has changed.

Not sure where the government thinks young people are going to do any learning at all between the cuts in education at primary/secondary level and cuts in funding at higher education level. We will be faced with a generation who have nothing to do if it all continues.

Its appauling that in the 21st century there ARE STILL children leaving school who cannot read or write properly. Education should have MORE money poured into it not taken out of it .....

K

[Corrie 3]

Its appauling that in the 21st century there ARE STILL children leaving school who cannot read or write properly. Education should have MORE money poured into it not taken out of it .....

K

Education has never had so much money thrown at it as these last 15 years and yes you are right, there are plenty who leave who cannot read or write....In the good old days as you call them at least everyone could read and write and this was just with one teacher to up to 50 kids. I say it doesnt need more money or more body's, it needs teachers with more skills and a backing from Govt if a Teacher doesnt come up to scratch then they will be sacked and replaced with one who can teach kids properly!! As has been stated, when Assistants were intoduced there was an uproar from teachers and their Unions and now they are saying they shoudnt be cut back on???...C'mon, what do you want?

C3.

[Alice in Blunderland]

I wish my dad was following this thread and the claims that are being made about education in the good old days. Unfortunately he seemed to be able to leave school unable to read or write much. In his class of almost fifty children it went unnoticed or should I say uncared about.

[Blarney]

Education has never had so much money thrown at it as these last 15 years and yes you are right, there are plenty who leave who cannot read or write....In the good old days as you call them at least everyone could read and write and this was just with one teacher to up to 50 kids. I say it doesnt need more money or more body's, it needs teachers with more skills and a backing from Govt if a Teacher doesnt come up to scratch then they will be sacked and replaced with one who can teach kids properly!! As has been stated, when Assistants were intoduced there was an uproar from teachers and their Unions and now they are saying they shoudnt be cut back on???...C'mon, what do you want?C3.

I agree with almost everything you have said on this thread C3. I think that the lack of numeracy and literacy skills in the majority of young folk is possibly down to the curriculum and the emphasis on subjects and activities outwith the basic reading, writing and arithmetic which should be the basis for all education. If students aren't being corrected in these subjects when they submit coursework then the system is failing them. Yes, there are more people going to university and college than there were when I was younger but their standard of basic education is poor to say the least. I know of a 30 year old professional whose spelling and grammar is appalling. She may know her chosen subject but her credibility as a professional is subsequently in serious question.
The large classes of yesteryear are not something we should aspire to in this day and age but the teaching methods shouldn't be criticised as they worked. Some classroom assistants aren't up to scratch academically anyway and they shouldn't be used as a substitute for trained teachers.

[Corrie 3]

I wish my dad was following this thread and the claims that are being made about education in the good old days. Unfortunately he seemed to be able to leave school unable to read or write much. In his class of almost fifty children it went unnoticed or should I say uncared about.

Yes Alice, we were uncared about I must admit because we were only churned out to do Manual work,Factory work, minework etc but everyone I knew at school was able to read and write and do nice neat handwriting because we used to have handwriting lessons, yes, its true, handwriting lessons and woe betide anyone who's handwriting was untidy or leaned to the left or you got an ink blot on your page. We were punished and punished hard and I tell you what, it did us no harm at all, we didnt need a classromm assistant, the teacher could control us and teach us at the same time.....When you had to leave school at 15 and be ready to do a Man's job you thanked the Teachers who were so hard on us!!...I am sorry to say that todays kids are wrapped in cotton wool and it does them no good at all!!

C3.

[ducati]

I may be a bit younger than C3 (auld git) but I can testify that most of my teachers were psychopaths. I could not wait to leave school, which I did at 15. I could read and write though and after one false start I embarked on my chosen career ladder and never looked back. I may have been tempted to further education, I enjoy training, but alas, I have always been too busy working

[Blarney]

Precisely my point Ducati. You are an articulate, hard working member of society who was equipped with enough education and common sense (well that's maybe exaggerating things) to leave school at 15. How many of today's youngsters would be able to do that?

[Bazeye]

Maybe if the teachers were allowed to whack unruly pupils across the back of the head like they used to would help, instead of being scared of them nowadays.

[cecile]

i dont want to add oil onto the fire but I ve been a primary school teacher in France and you dont have any teaching assistant there and you have to cope with it, that s part of the job and the training you have to be able to teach to all pupils and be available to all of them at least one to one in each lesson, and prepare different exercises regarding each pupils level. i m not blaming the teachers far be it from me cause i know it s not always easy and fun ,but maybe improving teachers training would be beneficial to everyone .once again teachers work far more than people think, i remembered i never had any poper full free gweek end cause i had to correct everything and think about the next week an plan everything. that s a never ending job and quite demanding , so to those who think teachers have it easy, well see if you can do better!

[Blarney]

i dont want to add oil onto the fire but I ve been a primary school teacher in France and you dont have any teaching assistant there and you have to cope with it, that s part of the job and the training you have to be able to teach to all pupils and be available to all of them at least one to one in each lesson, and prepare different exercises regarding each pupils level. i m not blaming the teachers far be it from me cause i know it s not always easy and fun ,but maybe improving teachers training would be beneficial to everyone .once again teachers work far more than people think, i remembered i never had any poper full free gweek end cause i had to correct everything and think about the next week an plan everything. that s a never ending job and quite demanding , so to those who think teachers have it easy, well see if you can do better!

I don't think that teachers have it easy in the least. As I said previously, I blame the curriculum and a lack of discipline and respect for the teachers for the failure of many to achieve their potential at school.

[Mouse]

Good old days or bad old days? It's not about education or children it's about MONEY!

20years ago if you got into trouble in school or caused trouble outside you parents heard about it & you got solid hell. Society had more values & respect back then. In many cases parents just don't seem to care.

Teachers need help today because many children just don't have respect for them (or anyone else). Assistants are needed to help teach & control children who are rude & disruptive, because they have not been taught social values by their parents. The council shouts about inclusion of special needs, if teachers don't have help they can't include. Disruption of whatever kind doesn't help any child in the class. When its happening hourly, daily, weekly, all the children suffer. MORE assistants are needed not less. If assistants are cut, will the disruptive pupils be removed? Is this the next step?