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Thread: CHaP/Ignis Energy meeting

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcsman View Post
    ok,what can we do to find out where we stand?i am one of the few who have paid for this heating to be installed,i fear that i am up the creek without a paddle,does anyone else feel this way?
    surely there is something we can do?
    I am also a private tenant who invested £3K in installing this system in my house, when sold it wasn't sold as a short term 5yr lifespan but it really does seem like the end!
    At the meeting Ignis seemed to be a decent plan but as I have little knowledge of this system i'm really in the dark, reading the posts on here about there companies and the ongoing director changes, debt etc. really worries me.
    As stated the council seem to have taken a total disregard to the tendering requirements and it appears they still haven't learned any lessons. They failed in the first instance and its not looking to good now.

    Someone with a knowledge of what is happening with this systems is what we need.
    The council seem to be selling us down the river.

    It wont just affect the private households as if this system fails the council will have to install an alternative e.g wet electric heating and this will severely increase the tenants heating costs probably at least doubling the current £9.80/wk.

    This affects all 247 chap households. Lets get some answers so we can see how this plan will take shape and the true viability of it. If the council have been doing it by the book then they'l have nothing to hide.
    Last edited by Macwull; 05-Feb-11 at 18:00.
    Its all good!!!
    It'l soon be Friday!! !!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcsman View Post
    ok,what can we do to find out where we stand?i am one of the few who have paid for this heating to be installed,i fear that i am up the creek without a paddle,does anyone else feel this way?
    surely there is something we can do?
    bcsman : I emailed the Council about the ChaP/Ignis matter and pointed out they had infact broken their own and Government rules
    on more that one occasion and they had NOT ACTED IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST.I got a swift reply "DELIVERY STATUS FAILURE",so i tried many other council addresses and it was much the same .I phone the HQ and was asked "what was the matter in connection with , when i said Ignis/ChaP " the phone went dead .
    It looks like someone or some people dont want thing to come to light or answer question that would see them out of a job ...The Plot Thickens
    ...

  3. #23
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    hi dozy
    a bad start to the day im afraid,no hot water to shower and no heating,the usuall exscuse from CHap is"oh,the alarm system must have been turned off"ive heard this a few times now.
    it looks like the council are goin to go throught with this no matter if they have broken their own rules or not.
    what is the number for the HQ?i will call them to see if i get the response as you.
    there certainly seems to be some sinister forces at work here.

  4. #24
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    has anyone else had the same problem as dozy has had with the council?
    i am going to call tomorrow to find out what is happening if i get the same response as dozy i.e. phoned slammed down on me,i will weigh up my options and see what i can do to take matters further.

  5. #25
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    can anyone who is affected by this help me to put pen to paper and write a letter to those in power.we need to find out what is happening,if there is underhanded dealings by the council or CHaP/Ignis.
    a letter to MP's MEP's media etc will soon let these people know we mean buissness,we have to stand together,untited we divided we fall and all that.sons of wick,we have come here as free men but what will you do without heating?sorry,got abit carried away,but seriously lets start with a good worded letter,i would appreciate help on this matter.
    thanks.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcsman View Post
    has anyone else had the same problem as dozy has had with the council?
    i am going to call tomorrow to find out what is happening if i get the same response as dozy i.e. phoned slammed down on me,i will weigh up my options and see what i can do to take matters further.
    bcsman:As folk on the ORG and those who read the local/national papers i had words with Councillors Smith on many occasions over some years.
    When Steve Barron was investigating the CHaP fiasco i contacted him and he stated that there was NO mention of my name in ANY Council paperwork.He also stated that he that never been told that the Project had ever been questioned .So who removed my name and articles and to what ends ,any paperwork that would paint the councillors in a bad light was deleted ...

  7. #27
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    this is looking more and more worrying evertime i read a post on here.what are all the facts here,i dont know the rules and regulations about this takeover if its legal or if any rules have been broken,some help please.
    Quote Originally Posted by dozy View Post
    bcsman:As folk on the ORG and those who read the local/national papers i had words with Councillors Smith on many occasions over some years.
    When Steve Barron was investigating the CHaP fiasco i contacted him and he stated that there was NO mention of my name in ANY Council paperwork.He also stated that he that never been told that the Project had ever been questioned .So who removed my name and articles and to what ends ,any paperwork that would paint the councillors in a bad light was deleted ...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcsman View Post
    this is looking more and more worrying evertime i read a post on here.what are all the facts here,i dont know the rules and regulations about this takeover if its legal or if any rules have been broken,some help please.
    bcsman: I believe the rules were broken at the very first meeting that this group (councillors) held ,they used the folk of Pulteney. They PROMISED cheap heat under the guise of removing the less well off from FUEL POVERTY.They knew that this system was a non-starter but went down that route because the Energy Saving Trust were handing out money ,so they jumped on the bandwagon. Not because they thought this would being an ended to fuel poverty in Pulteney but could be used to secure their position in the Community.Its a shame that these folk did not have the grace to resign and give the people they have a duty to protect a chance to take control.The Council know full well that a Charity run scheme will have routes to funding outwith the council (Europe) to purchase the right equipment and to make it a success ,so why GIVE it away .
    I do think that the private customers of CHaP would have right of recourse , the Council broke the contract (you need to look out the contact) as the system in the contact never worked(its all down to the fine print) .
    I think the damage done over the CHaP will have a long lasting effect on Wick .To do nothing in bringing those involved to book over this is the deathnail for the County . It will be a green flag to the Highland Council to do as it pleases with Caithness, as the Councillors dont care and the people dont have the fight in them ...

  9. #29
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    If it's any help, I was discussing this fiasco with a local friend of mine who is a Chartered Engineer and businessman - he was aware of the scheme but not of the more recent aspects which he thinks looks a bit dodgy. He has offered to help in any way he could by providing some guidance or lending some credibility to tackling the Council or attending a public meeting. He lives near Wick but not part of the heating scheme if that makes any difference. If any one wants to take the lead then PM me and I'll put you in touch.

  10. #30

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    [QUOTE=dozy;817049]bcsman: I believe the rules were broken at the very first meeting that this group (councillors) held ,they used the folk of Pulteney. They PROMISED cheap heat under the guise of removing the less well off from FUEL POVERTY.They knew that this system was a non-starter but went down that route because the Energy Saving Trust were handing out money ,so they jumped on the bandwagon. Not because they thought this would being an ended to fuel poverty in Pulteney but could be used to secure their position in the Community.Its a shame that these folk did not have the grace to resign and give the people they have a duty to protect a chance to take control.The Council know full well that a Charity run scheme will have routes to funding outwith the council (Europe) to purchase the right equipment and to make it a success ,so why GIVE it away .
    I do think that the private customers of CHaP would have right of recourse , the Council broke the contract (you need to look out the contact) as the system in the contact never worked(its all down to the fine print) .
    I think the damage done over the CHaP will have a long lasting effect on Wick .To do nothing in bringing those involved to book over this is the deathnail for the County . It will be a green flag to the Highland Council to do as it pleases with Caithness, as the Councillors dont care and the people dont have the fight in them ...[/QUOTE

    Im new to this, done a little digging and found http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/doc...0624_chaps.pdf
    A real hornets nest this one !

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by chordie View Post
    Oh dear, this doesn't look good at all.

    The trail of name changing, address changing and Director changing is concerning.

    Their 'headquarters' as indicated on their website is a residential house in Richmond (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&so...13583&t=h&z=17).

    Their registered address is an accountants office in Beaconsfield. (edit: just noticed that the accountants went bust at the end of last year for dodgy share trading !!)

    And most alarmingly, I've also looked at their most recent annual accounts which shows them in a deficit:
    - cash £2,000
    - liabilities to be paid within 12 months: £419,000
    - liabilities to be paid in more than 12 months: £577,000
    - money due in from clients: £69,000
    Which means the net value of the business is..... NEGATIVE £925,000 !!

    Expect to see your woodchip plant go up in smoke.
    Absolutely unbelievable, was there any diligence done on the company as part of the tender process, somebody has f'd up really badly here, or did they, was a diligence exercise undertaken / or was someone instructed not to check the company out ? Who would gain here..can anyone answer this one ?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    Im new to this, done a little digging and found http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/doc...0624_chaps.pdf
    A real hornets nest this one !
    Well that was a depressing read. History is about to repeat itself then - this quote from the auditor's report shows that nobody learned anything as exactly the same thing has now been done in relation to awarding a tender to Ignis Energy:

    "Although the evaluation of the gasification tenders by the company was overseen by its external technical advisor, of considerable concern is that the advertised evaluation criteria, including the need to demonstrate proven capability, were disregarded.... failure to adhere to its advertised criteria represents a breach of the procurement legislation which could have exposed it to legal challenge."

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by chordie View Post
    Well that was a depressing read. History is about to repeat itself then - this quote from the auditor's report shows that nobody learned anything as exactly the same thing has now been done in relation to awarding a tender to Ignis Energy:

    "Although the evaluation of the gasification tenders by the company was overseen by its external technical advisor, of considerable concern is that the advertised evaluation criteria, including the need to demonstrate proven capability, were disregarded.... failure to adhere to its advertised criteria represents a breach of the procurement legislation which could have exposed it to legal challenge."
    yes and it would seem that in awarding the contract to Ignis energy the tender procedures were also disregarded..ie financial stability ? The millions wasted here could have been saved and prevented the need for cuts....could it ?

  14. #34

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    http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/doc...0624_chaps.pdf

    Although the elected member and officer visits to Finland and the Shetland Islands to inspect district heating systems were intended to inform decision making, it is not evident that the visits were of relevance. Furthermore, internal audit questioned whether the elected members and officer in attendance possessed the appropriate skills and qualifications.

    Well at least the elected member and officer had a nice holiday to Finland and Shetland Islands at our cost.

    We have to do something about this complete shambles!!!!!!

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejudd View Post
    http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/doc...0624_chaps.pdf

    Although the elected member and officer visits to Finland and the Shetland Islands to inspect district heating systems were intended to inform decision making, it is not evident that the visits were of relevance. Furthermore, internal audit questioned whether the elected members and officer in attendance possessed the appropriate skills and qualifications.

    Well at least the elected member and officer had a nice holiday to Finland and Shetland Islands at our cost.

    We have to do something about this complete shambles!!!!!!
    I really have a superficial knowledge, if at all, on this project, the audit findings suggest to me a clear breach of tender regs, I dont know who was involved with the over seas feasibility visits but will concede that some form of feasibility study was needed prior to progressing the project...clearly though as regards Ingis..if the information on here is correct, then a breach of tender regs has occurred...how many applied through the tender process I wonder ?

  16. #36
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    I have been informed that the following questions have been lodged with Steve Barron, Director of Housing & Property at Highland Council who has indicated that he's the man to answer them:

    1) Was the award of this contract a direct result of a tendering process ? If so, was this tender notice reference number: HC/CHaP/CEX/Operator/062009 as published on the Public Contracts Scotland website on 03/07/2009 ? If not, could you please inform me of where I may obtain the original tender notice.

    2) If this contract was tendered, how many responses were there to the tender ?

    3) If this contract was tendered, what was the exact wording of the stated evaluation criteria in the tender notice ? Was any part of the following statement published as tender evaluation criteria ?

    "As an absolute minimum, organisations must: 1) Demonstrate that they have the relevant experience to design, build, operate, manage, maintain and administrate a district heating scheme and 2)that they have the financial resources to invest in the initial scheme and to maintain delivery of a community heating scheme for a period of up to 25 years without subsidy from the procuring Highland Council.
    Failure to provide satisfactory evidence of the above two questions will result in automatic disqualification."

    4) Can you confirm that the company awarded the contract to be service provider for the Caithness Heat and Power project is Ignis Energy Ltd, registered office 55 Station Road, Beaconsfield, HP9 1QL, company registration number 06623320 ?

    5) Assuming that the contract was tendered, and that Ignis Energy Ltd was one of the tendering organisations, could you clarify how Ignis Energy Ltd met the evaluation criteria of the tender evaluation.

    6) At the time of the award of this contract to Ignis Energy Ltd, the published accounts of this company showed that it had: £2,000 in cash; £69,000 in accounts receivables; £419,000 in short term liabilities; £577,000 in long term liabilities. Can you provide an explanation as to how this orgnisation was therefore considered to be financially fit to be awarded this contract, given the very high level of debt relative to the very low level of current assets and working capital ?

    7) What is the duration of the contract that has been awarded to Ignis Energy Ltd ?


    Will let you know the answers if they get passed on to me.

  17. #37

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    that will be a very interesting read Chordie

  18. #38
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    If MPs are getting 12 months in jail for stealing (sorry, not being truthful) about £14,500 they took unlawfully from Taxpayers ,what will the Wick Councillors get for £20 million .Should be around 138 years ,now that would being on a smile ..One can only hope .By the way ,i'm not inferring that local councillors should be or are tarred with the same brush or have done anything wrong .Thats up to the public and VOTERS to decide.
    Last edited by dozy; 12-Feb-11 at 09:35.

  19. #39

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    The councillors involved in the "all singing all dancing" heating scheme should hang their heads in shame
    I attended the open day in the South school to let people hear how good this system is - I asked Graeme Smith some questions but he was more bothered to float around the school hall as if he was some sort of god - this is the same person that stated in todays Groat that the swimming pool was built on ther cheap and is not fit for purpose, and the library is only books and could be located anywhere.

    I understand that this heating system whilst running on oil is costing the taxpayer in the region of £100K per month and rising without and prospect of a change to reduce this is months away (If IGNIS/CHAP are still viable ??)

    This money could be better spent on keeping people in jobs and to tidy up the eyesores of delapidated buildings throughout the town - in the old files in the groat today this was something that Ian Sutherland raised 25 years ago.)Some things never change)

    I have loads of respect for councillor David Bremner but as for the rest they dont do a lot but look after themselves.

    In my opinion GS for one is "Not fit for purpose" as everthing he is involved in is a disaster!!

    Remember this at voting time - What has he done for the good of the Wickers and what will he bring in years to come

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejudd View Post
    that will be a very interesting read Chordie
    I got an update tonight - the man at the Highland Council claimed not to have received the questions. But has confirmed he has them now and will reply in 20 days.

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