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Thread: CHaP/Ignis Energy meeting

  1. #1
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    Default CHaP/Ignis Energy meeting

    Hi just wondering if anyone here attended the Chap Meeting tonight? I cant make it to tomorrow night but was wondering what was going to be happening.

    Cheers
    dz4d.com

  2. #2
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    It appears that all the heating equipment has been taken out of the large shed and is lying dismantled outside - stuff that was worth millions!!!!
    dz4d.com
    Knowledge talks - Wisdom listens

  3. #3
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    The dismantled plant was being loaded onto tucks this morning when I went past. Looks like oil fired heating for the forseeable future.
    Knowledge talks - Wisdom listens

  4. #4
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    I saw them taking it out too, couldn't believe what I was seeing. I know someone who's on the cheap heating, 7 a week and they have all the windows open cause it too hot! Is that the end to it then?

  5. #5
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    Default Ignis

    Yes the machinery is being taking out as it was just a prototype.
    Ignis Energy are taking over from the Highland Council in April and they will have wood chip burners in by Sept. This method has been operational in Denmark for 13 years supplying heat and hot water to 600 homes.
    Ignis Energy seem to be taking the project in a good direction.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suth11 View Post
    Yes the machinery is being taking out as it was just a prototype.
    Ignis Energy are taking over from the Highland Council in April and they will have wood chip burners in by Sept. This method has been operational in Denmark for 13 years supplying heat and hot water to 600 homes.
    Ignis Energy seem to be taking the project in a good direction.
    Sorry, but your wrong .The machinery was NOT a prototype. It has been in use in Turkey for around 10 years (4 years before Wick),there they use Commercial/Domestic waste as the fuel.As for Ignis Energy going in the right direction with the Dannish method, again I take issue. Ignis are a short lived company and have alreadly done the name change game and that should set the alarm beels ringing .Wick Councillors give us promises that CHaP would be a WORLD BEATER just to get re-elected,now we have that same councillors letting carpet-baggers in to run a Community Project that CANT make any Money. Its not sustainable, just do the maths .
    280 homes at 10.00 per week times 52 weeks =145,000 thats 28,000 shortfall for the wood fuel alone ,and thats before you add in wages, rent, rates, power and insurance plus much more ...
    I was the Engineer that stood up and told the Council that the CHaP project in the manner they presented " WOULD NOT WORK" .That statement as cost me dearly.Now Ignis have taken a page from the letter i sent the council (in 2004) and started back at the basics,but time has moved on and the system they now want to fit is over 6 years out of date .I did approach the Council to let a Charity run it ,but got short shift .
    To make it work there are 1 of 3 choices .
    1.You could get customers to pay 25 per week.
    2.Change the fuel to WASTE ,with all the hazzards and health issues that will bring
    3.Turn in over to a Community Charity and run it with local engineers that will put the people first.
    Best of luck

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dozy View Post
    Sorry, but your wrong .The machinery was NOT a prototype
    I was merely stating what was said at the meeting on Friday night.

  8. #8

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    Suth11. Please dont take it the wrong way i'm not having a go at you .Its the Council and the Councillors that were voted in that should have been kick out over CHaP .They cant or wont learn and by letting them stay in POWER we are the ones that suffer, but we are also the ones to blame for not demanding their heads on a pole .Instead of sorting out a problem of their own making, they when go on to make it worse .The main question is "why not hand it over to a Community Charity" (like they what to do with the swimming pool) .That leads me to believe that someone is benefiting from the deal and it ain't the TAXPAYER .

  9. #9

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    Thanks to all that contacted me about the CHaP project .The householders on the scheme are still getting their heat from the Distillery boiler that runs on OIL ,we all know that the price of OIL has gone through the roof in the last 12 months and that bill is being paid by the Council using Taxpayers money .If Ignis is not to come on stream until September ,thats other 8 months of bills for the taxpayer.
    I asked the Council what was the conditions of the contract with IGNIS ,they said if is Not in the Public interest to know .Ignis being a private company dont have to say what it will cost and what profit is in the contact .It seems that Council tenants are to be used as cannon-fodder,whats next for tenants are the Council planning to sell of their homes.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dozy View Post
    Sorry, but your wrong .The machinery was NOT a prototype. It has been in use in Turkey for around 10 years (4 years before Wick),there they use Commercial/Domestic waste as the fuel.As for Ignis Energy going in the right direction with the Dannish method, again I take issue. Ignis are a short lived company and have alreadly done the name change game and that should set the alarm beels ringing .Wick Councillors give us promises that CHaP would be a WORLD BEATER just to get re-elected,now we have that same councillors letting carpet-baggers in to run a Community Project that CANT make any Money. Its not sustainable, just do the maths .
    280 homes at 10.00 per week times 52 weeks =145,000 thats 28,000 shortfall for the wood fuel alone ,and thats before you add in wages, rent, rates, power and insurance plus much more ...
    I was the Engineer that stood up and told the Council that the CHaP project in the manner they presented " WOULD NOT WORK" .That statement as cost me dearly.Now Ignis have taken a page from the letter i sent the council (in 2004) and started back at the basics,but time has moved on and the system they now want to fit is over 6 years out of date .I did approach the Council to let a Charity run it ,but got short shift .
    To make it work there are 1 of 3 choices .
    1.You could get customers to pay 25 per week.
    2.Change the fuel to WASTE ,with all the hazzards and health issues that will bring
    3.Turn in over to a Community Charity and run it with local engineers that will put the people first.
    Best of luck
    Well written Dozy..
    Is this the Ignis Energy co, mentioned?; http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/41232252651f937a99605c0942482165/compdetails previously Regen Laing Ltd

    'Get over it. Democracy in Action'


  11. #11
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by bekisman View Post
    Is this the Ignis Energy co, mentioned?; http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/41232252651f937a99605c0942482165/compdetails previously Regen Laing Ltd
    Oh dear, this doesn't look good at all.

    The trail of name changing, address changing and Director changing is concerning.

    Their 'headquarters' as indicated on their website is a residential house in Richmond (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&so...13583&t=h&z=17).

    Their registered address is an accountants office in Beaconsfield. (edit: just noticed that the accountants went bust at the end of last year for dodgy share trading !!)

    And most alarmingly, I've also looked at their most recent annual accounts which shows them in a deficit:
    - cash 2,000
    - liabilities to be paid within 12 months: 419,000
    - liabilities to be paid in more than 12 months: 577,000
    - money due in from clients: 69,000
    Which means the net value of the business is..... NEGATIVE 925,000 !!

    Expect to see your woodchip plant go up in smoke.
    Last edited by chordie; 02-Feb-11 at 11:03. Reason: more info found.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by chordie View Post
    Oh dear, this doesn't look good at all.

    The trail of name changing, address changing and Director changing is concerning.

    Their 'headquarters' as indicated on their website is a residential house in Richmond (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&so...13583&t=h&z=17).

    Their registered address is an accountants office in Beaconsfield. (edit: just noticed that the accountants went bust at the end of last year for dodgy share trading !!)

    And most alarmingly, I've also looked at their most recent annual accounts which shows them in a deficit:
    - cash 2,000
    - liabilities to be paid within 12 months: 419,000
    - liabilities to be paid in more than 12 months: 577,000
    - money due in from clients: 69,000
    Which means the net value of the business is..... NEGATIVE 925,000 !!

    Expect to see your woodchip plant go up in smoke.
    chordie; Well said .If i posted this folk would say its just sour grapes on my part ,but the truths out there .This is the Councils" PREFERED"bidder and they stated that "they looked hard for the right company" .Just goes to show the same CLOWNS are running the CIRCUS.
    If the folk of Wick were up for it, we the community could challenge the Councils decision over CHaP/Ignis and put in a community run charity...But we would have to be quick off the mark ..I'm sure the PRESS and TV folk would jump at it ...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dozy View Post
    This is the Councils" PREFERED"bidder and they stated that "they looked hard for the right company"
    Well given that it was a tendering exercise, I've had a look at the original tendering documentation produced by Highland Council which is still available at PublicContractsScotland.

    Apart from the fact that this is a 25 year contract, the selection criteria is interesting, and I quote:

    As an absolute minimum, organisations must: 1) Demonstrate that they have the relevant experience to design, build, operate, manage, maintain and administrate a district heating scheme and 2)that they have the financial resources to invest in the initial scheme and to maintain delivery of a community heating scheme for a period of up to 25 years without subsidy from the procuring Highland Council.
    Failure to provide satisfactory evidence of the above two questions will result in automatic disqualification.


    Now given the timing of the tendering process, that would fall in line with the accounting period I outlined in the previous post. So it beggars belief as to how Ignis Energy ever got off the starting blocks in the tendering process since they certainly don't meet condition 2 - not only do they not have any money then, but they had nearly 1million in debt and no obvious income.

    As I've not been close to this project, remind me again who are the specific Councillors and Council Officials who are responsible for this. Because they've handed over your heating system to a sham outfit, and broken their own tendering rules in the process.

  14. #14

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    Chordie;
    I would very much like to name and SAME the Councillors involved, but for legal reasons i just can't . SORRY ,as they are still sitting Councillors and i dont need the hazzle i got last time around .You post is an eye-opener and goes to show they are still writing their own rules and putting two fingers up to the public (pity these folk are still in the job).Its up to the Folk of Wick if they want to sort it out .They should stand up and show the highland council that the county belongs to the folk that live there .These closures/sell offs of services ,swimming pools etc and of course the New High School fiasco.The Wick folk should draw a line under this and tell Councillors NO MORE .The people of Wick should decide what goes where and when ,because to their money and their Town ..
    I think the Council has breached the guidelines on this a the contact should be null and void.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by dozy View Post
    Chordie;
    I would very much like to name and SAME the Councillors involved, but for legal reasons i just can't . SORRY ,as they are still sitting Councillors and i dont need the hazzle i got last time around .You post is an eye-opener and goes to show they are still writing their own rules and putting two fingers up to the public (pity these folk are still in the job).Its up to the Folk of Wick if they want to sort it out .They should stand up and show the highland council that the county belongs to the folk that live there .These closures/sell offs of services ,swimming pools etc and of course the New High School fiasco.The Wick folk should draw a line under this and tell Councillors NO MORE .The people of Wick should decide what goes where and when ,because to their money and their Town ..
    I think the Council has breached the guidelines on this a the contact should be null and void.
    Whats the bets Noel 'Not' News wont be reporting this story,(or anything to do with the High School shambles) in his diary anytime soon!

  16. #16

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    We need to do something about this and very QUICK.....between us can we organise a meeting of some sort to see wot the options are

  17. #17
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    yes,i agree.i think the coucil have been very dodgy about this,we need to know exactly where we stand and what protection we have.
    wish i never got this heating installed now,its just been a shambles from the very start,some people should be held accountable for this mess

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcsman View Post
    yes,i agree.i think the coucil have been very dodgy about this,we need to know exactly where we stand and what protection we have.
    wish i never got this heating installed now,its just been a shambles from the very start,some people should be held accountable for this mess
    Hi .Do you think the folk of Wick would be up for starting an ACTION GROUP to get the answers to the question they have .They could also put together a group that could put forward plans to take over the project as the council have clearly broken the rules ? We need someone in Wick to push things on before Ignis do a runner with what little machinery thats left ....We need a Wick Community Champion to step froward ...

  19. #19
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    well if the council have broken the rules they should be held accountable,there certainly seems to be some shady dealings going on here with minimal information to the public.
    i would like to know where all the people in power who set up this shambles are hiding now,like rats deserting a sinking ship seems to come to mind.
    millions of pounds out of the public purse have been wasted on this fiasco,who is/was in charge.
    i cant understand it.
    get these people who started this CHaP to a meeting and let them explain why they thought this heating system was going to work and why it cost so much and why did they wash their hands of it as soon as it looked like it was going to fail.

  20. #20
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    ok,what can we do to find out where we stand?i am one of the few who have paid for this heating to be installed,i fear that i am up the creek without a paddle,does anyone else feel this way?
    surely there is something we can do?

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